Speechless. I cannot believe this happened to my friend... wow....

[preslove]

Another reason caste purity must be maintained. thank ISwarA for Brahma-vivAha and due-diligence..

racist.

 

[busydude]

Another reason caste purity must be maintained. thank ISwarA for Brahma-vivAha and due-diligence..

LMAO.. Sorry man.. you were born in the US right? I am pretty sure you will marry a girl from India.. and good luck finding a girl that will fit your description of "India women".

 

[Baasha]

forgive my ignorance, is there anything positive that is the result of this caste system? any books to read about it?

The caste system, as described in Hinduism, is the only reason India is still majority Hindu and stays true to its ancient way of life and culture. Every other culture and/or people have been destroyed by the predatory Abrahamic faiths and more recently, communism.

The caste system ensures the progress of the society as a whole and allows every individual to realize his strengths and act on them. The concept is diametrically opposed to western frame of thought where the "individual" (aka the ego) is put above all else without taking into consideration the effects on the said individual, his immediate surroundings, and ultimately, society at large. The caste system, called Varnashrama Dharma, keeps society functioning at its prime and ensures harmony among all living things.

Caste, or Varna, is based on three things: lineage (jan - which means birth in Sanskrit), character (guna), and action (karma).

Caste based abuse has become commonplace in India over the past few centuries. The abuse arose because people clung on to only the "lineage" aspect of caste and left the other two out (character and action). So, instead of just being "different" castes, they came to be defined as "higher" and "lower", eventually leading to resentment among the so-called "lower" castes.

The other reason caste system was abused was the conflation of caste with "race". Caste has nothing to do with 'race' as it is an intangible quality of a person at the deepest level. If one is physically, mentally, and emotionally pure, maintaining an austere life (abstinence from eating meat, drinking alcohol, using psychedelics, fornication before/outside of marriage etc.) pursuing only knowledge of the nature of reality, such a person was known as a 'Brahmin'. One who was in charge of ruling, statecraft, defense, and the overseeing of the wellbeing of the society at large, such a person was known as a 'Kshatriya'. One who took care of the economic aspects of the community either through business and/or trade, such a person was known as 'Vaisya'. The laborers who did most of the hard physical labor as well as kept the society functioning were known as 'Sudras'. Those who shirked responsibility to oneself, one's family, and one's society was known as a 'Chandala' or 'untouchable'.

When this principle became conflated with race, the lighter-skinned section of Indian society, under the auspices of the British, who fancied themselves as "Aryan", a word that means 'noble in character' in Sanskrit, began discriminating against the darker skinned Indians. Indians, as the India Genome Project has clearly shown, are of a SINGULAR race and genetic strain. This 'racial difference' was a diabolical plot invented by the British to divide and rule the Indians when they invaded a few hundred years ago. That idiotic notion of conflating race with caste is still going on today even though it has been proven utterly false.

An Aryan is one who is of noble lineage, character, and action. None of those qualities precludes the other. Arya has nothing to do with race and thus all practicing Hindus are considered Aryans. It is a title like "majesty" so nobody goes around saying, "Yeah, I'm Aryan dude!"

There are many more aspects of the caste system and is far too complex to explain on a forum. Read up on it and do some independent research.

You should start with the Bhagavad Gita.

Those who don't understand caste or hate India and/or Hinduism will always try to malign the caste system. If you read about it and understand the basics that the caste system is a system of division of labor based on one's proclivities for the betterment of society as a whole, it is indeed divine in origin and purpose!

 

[dighn]

oh boy

 

[Baasha]

Sorry, caste purity is just retarded. Plus, for all you know, they were the same caste.

How is maintaining caste purity "retarded"?

So making sure you marry someone with similar background, tendencies, proclivities, and strengths is retarded? So, I assume you have a decent job and have at least a bachelor's degree. Are you willing to marry a high school dropout who's into drugs, drinking, and fornicating? If you do the same things, then, you still would be maintaining caste "purity" lolol..

It's funny westerners will allow a stupid machine, a computer, to decide compatibility between two people but won't let their parents, who love them more than life itself, do the same. And they smirk at "arranged" marriage! hahahahhaha.. yea, go ahead and let a computer 'arrange' your marriage.

 

[guyver01]

Wow.. who let the untouchable dalit into this thread?

 

[Baasha]

Ive stayed in Kerala, isnt it Christian down there, why do you think she is from there?

Well, Kerala has a large Christian population but they are still majority Hindu. I just made a guess because Keralite girls are fiercely independent and not the stereotypical demure, docile, Indian woman. LOL... I could be totally off with that guess though.. lol

 

[Baasha]

LMAO.. Sorry man.. you were born in the US right? I am pretty sure you will marry a girl from India.. and good luck finding a girl that will fit your description of "India women".

I will marry a woman from India, yes. A Brahmin woman who is traditional and defines Indian womanhood.

 

[Perknose]

The caste system ensures the progress of the society as a whole and allows every individual to realize his strengths and act on them.

D:

 

[Born2bwire]

Wow... I've really met an Indian that still bought into the caste crap.

 

[DCal430]

I do not see a problem with the caste system as long as it is voluntary. No one is forced to practice it.

 

[Perknose]

I do not see a problem with the caste system as long as it is voluntary. No one is forced to practice it.

WHOOSH! Then you entirely missed its point, The caste system is intentionally involuntary. You are BORN into your caste, you have zero choice in the matter, and you can never "leave" your caste. You ARE your caste, it is YOU, and irrevocable.

Here, eat my bitter melon, it might make you smarter.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

They believe in reincarnation, don't they? The reset button makes it voluntary.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

How is maintaining caste purity "retarded"?

So making sure you marry someone with similar background, tendencies, proclivities, and strengths is retarded? So, I assume you have a decent job and have at least a bachelor's degree. Are you willing to marry a high school dropout who's into drugs, drinking, and fornicating? If you do the same things, then, you still would be maintaining caste "purity" lolol..

Well, the 'caste' system is just based on what family you were born into. Nothing else. So you indeed seem to prefer a high school dropout who's into drugs, drinking and fornicating as long as she's from the same caste to a girl with an IQ of over 140 who doesn't drink or do drugs and doesn't sleep around.

The only thing more retarded than the caste system are those defending it.

 

[Baasha]

WHOOSH! Then you entirely missed its point, The caste system is intentionally involuntary. You are BORN into your caste, you have zero choice in the matter, and you can never "leave" your caste. You ARE your caste, it is YOU, and irrevocable.

That is completely erroneous. As I explained earlier, birth is just ONE aspect of one's caste. It is NOT set in stone. There is fluidity in one's caste although in recent times (last 2 centuries), it is has become rigid. There are umpteen examples of people being born into a 'lower' caste moving into the other so-called 'higher' caste. There is definitely fluidity in caste as it is based on CHARACTER (guna) and ACTION (karma) in the present life. Your birth is determined by the CHARACTER and ACTION in the previous life/lives.

Reincarnation is a fundamental aspect of Dharmic philosophy.

Plus, caste has two different words: jati and varna. One based on birth/occupation and the other on quality of the individual.

It is far too complex to describe here but long story short, caste is NOT rigid and one can move into other castes based on their actions and character. Lineage comes into play for marriage and learning the Scriptures (Vedas). Other than that, caste is not as rigid as you wrongfully claim.

 

[Baasha]

Well, the 'caste' system is just based on what family you were born into. Nothing else.

Completely wrong. Starting off with an idiotic statement and then reiterating it doesn't make it correct or sensible. It is still idiotic. Caste is not set in stone.

 

[Perknose]

That is completely erroneous. As I explained earlier, birth is just ONE aspect of one's caste. It is NOT set in stone. There is fluidity in one's caste although in recent times (last 2 centuries), it is has become rigid. There are umpteen examples of people being born into a 'lower' caste moving into the other so-called 'higher' caste. There is definitely fluidity in caste as it is based on CHARACTER (guna) and ACTION (karma) in the present life. Your birth is determined by the CHARACTER and ACTION in the previous life/lives.

Reincarnation is a fundamental aspect of Dharmic philosophy.

Plus, caste has two different words: jati and varna. One based on birth/occupation and the other on quality of the individual.

It is far too complex to describe here but long story short, caste is NOT rigid and one can move into other castes based on their actions and character. Lineage comes into play for marriage and learning the Scriptures (Vedas). Other than that, caste is not as rigid as you wrongfully claim.

Link me to examples of this. I'm willing to learn.

 

[mikeymikec]

What's America's divorce laws like? I would have thought that a court would laugh the wife's case out of town for not showing any effort to find a solution that doesn't involve the courts.

(I don't live in America)

- twenty minutes after writing initial question - did they move to California?

 

[Baasha]

Link me to examples of this. I'm willing to learn.

There are many examples of individuals who go through penance and purificatory rites in order to go from one caste to another.

Jati, based on birth, is still tied to occupation. A farmer's son will usually become a farmer and take care of their land. A doctor's son will usually go into medicine etc. Of course, these are not set in stone but it would be highly unlikely that a doctor's son would go into construction or janitorial work. The reverse is also true but not set in stone. One's occupation determines, over time, one's predilections and temperament and so molds their inner qualities as well; this is called Varna. Another example could be a scientists son most likely following in his parents' footsteps instead of going into sports for example. Their upbringing and surroundings mold the way in which they think, act, and behave. These occupational castes, called Jati, number in the thousands. The Varna, or inner qualities, are only four. With this in mind, you should be able to see that every society does indeed have a 'caste' system. Their justification of it, or even description of it, widely varies.

Although Jati can be easily changed based on occupation, inner qualites, Varna, takes several lifetimes of progress. In some situations, the change happens in this lifetime itself but that is very rare. Conflating Jati and Varna as "caste" is a huge mistake and so people wrongfully assume caste is set in stone and cannot be changed. The two are related but cannot be used interchangeably.

You will see many examples of modern-day Brahmins who are in various fields like business, finance, science, art etc. For example, Vikram Pandit, CEO of Citigroup is a Brahmin. By occupation, he is technically a Vaisya. However, his inner quality, based on his birth, upbringing, education, and surrounding, his natural tendencies and temperaments would still make him a Brahmin. Of course, I don't know him personally so that is just a guess. However, you can be quite sure that people like him, who are born Brahmins, are highly unlikely to be violent and/or aggressive. Such qualities can be developed through penance like teetotalism, sexual continence, and proper diet (vegetarianism etc.). If a Shudra were to develop such a highly-disciplined lifestyle, his inner qualities will change over time. Perhaps he won't be declared a Brahmin, but the progress is surely there. Conversely, there are many Brahmins who are born into that surrounding but fritter it away by engaging in life-negating habits (drinking, smoking, sexual promiscuity, avarice etc.) and the degradation of their inner quality, or Varna, is inevitable. They won't be declared "untouchable" perhaps, but in character and action, they surely are headed in that direction.

The caste system had become fossilized over the past few centuries due to various reasons. Now, caste in India is used as a political tool to turn one section of society against another. It should be noted, however, that a Dalit has been elected as President of India; KR Narayanan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kocheril_Raman_Narayanan)

There have been three Muslims who were Presidents of India as well! Any non-Hindu is considered an outcaste or untouchable so it does matter that a Muslim/Christian rises to high positions in India; proving merit takes precedence over background.

Some examples of caste fluidity:

Valmiki - author of the Ramayana, one of the greatest epics in the world which is actually called Itihaas (history) -- He was actually an outcaste (like a Dalit) whose occupation was robbery (LOL). He committed his life, after an encounter with a sage (Narada), to worship of the divine and thus underwent severe penance (prolonged periods of meditation) and became enlightened. He became a 'Brahmin' (one who knows Brahman).

Vyasa - scribe of the Vedas and author of the Mahabharatha -- born to a fisherwoman and a sage, Vyasa is considered to be a sage and an enlightened master by Hindus

ViSvAmitrA - an ancient king of India who also does immense penance and becomes a Brahmin sage

There are several other examples but mostly on an individual basis so there aren't masses of Shudras becoming Brahmins etc. because as stated earlier, caste is an intangible quality of the person at a deep level. It is defined by their lineage, character, and action(s).

Here is a brief intro on Caste and it touches on the fluidity of it as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Indian_caste_system

It is quite rare that people change castes because in order for society to function at its prime, each person needs to utilize their strengths which are determined by their family (birth), circumstances, and surroundings. Imagine if Shaquille O' Neal was a theoretical physicist and Ed Witten wanted to join the NBA. They are both welcome to try, but we know their natural abilities and proclivities have led them to where they are in life today.

As long as people don't use caste as a tool to abuse others, it is actually the best system of society. Being aware of human fallibility, however, we know that is not always the case.

 

[CrazyAznDriver]

damn this thread is making me want some lamb vindaloo

 

[SpatiallyAware]

damn this thread is making me want some lamb vindaloo

+1 with naan

 

[busydude]

Link me to examples of this. I'm willing to learn.

What Bashaa said.. the modern caste system was abused for generations. People from higher caste(Not surprisingly.. the most influential and powerful) abused their power. Also, we have to note that there is no such thing as higher or lower caste.. every caste is equal. People from so called higher castes have to work equally hard to make their living, a Brahmin has to follow strict discipline learn Vedas throughout his entire childhood which is extremely rigorous(Vedas are not written, instead they are to be passed down orally)... just as a farmer who has to learn, through experience or by learning from elders, when to sow and reap.

The levels in caste were not defined at all.. Brahmins and Kshatriyas assumed they were higher than farmers, cobblers, black smiths, etc.. and started abusing their rights. Priests did not allow people from other "lower" castes into temple premises, Kings and Warriors abused their power and levied high taxes which made rest of the people poor. Look at what happens when Military of a country has more power than the ruling government, a coup is inevitable(Although established as democracies, this is one of the vital difference between India and Pakistan. Look at Pakistan's history when compared to India).

The so called higher castes are just people who have immense sense of entitlement.

^^ From Mahabharata.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaksha_Prashna

 

[Barfo]

:hmm: pics of the girl

This. ATOT wants to help find her.

 

[Fritzo]

He needs to go on Maury Povich. The world must hear his story.

 

[Tom]

caste system made India one of the poorest most backward countries the last 2 centuries, couldn't feed their own people.

I assume the more recent progress is at least partly because it's been abandoned for democracy, is that not the case ?