Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[nicalandia]

Bergamo tests coming soon......

 

[Asterox]

This 7600 non-X is beating a ThreadRipper 1950X

View attachment 73623

Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MS-7D77 vs Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MS-7B92 - Geekbench

browser.geekbench.com

Yes, but this is Geekbench=in real everyday usage you cannot do anything at all.

Cinebench R23/Cinema 4D, if nothing else it is at least classic CPU rendering.

R5 7600X, 15200

Threadripper 1950X, 18700

 

[Kaluan]

Inadequate power for a vanilla 13700?

Vanilla? Specs are not far off from the K model, and as everyone should know TDP, 65W in this case, means diddly-squat on Intel. Unless you purposefully lock it in the BIOS. So expect it to pull around what 12900K pulls (which is to say, slightly less than 13700K).

And we know there were quite a few budget B620 (and apparently even Z690) which had kinda inadequate power delivery for a 12900K.

But the test result is using a beefy ASUS ROG ITX board, which is one of these non-K SKU' target platform audience. If even those aren't adequate, than that would be just sad. But that's extremely unlikely. Unless we mean 2-3% less performance deal breaker.

Either way, Intel can't go on like this forever. Sadly, seeing 13900KS and "Raptor Lake Refresh", I don't think they're repenting anytime soon.

Yes, but this is Geekbench=in real everyday usage you cannot do anything at all.

Cinebench R23/Cinema 4D, if nothing else it is at least classic CPU rendering.

R5 7600X, 15200

Threadripper 1950X, 18700

Not to mention it's far from accurate when it comes to sustained performance.
What does the test last, like 30 seconds?
In that time span, even smartphone SoC aggressive boost behavior doesn't expire.

 

[Asterox]

These are probably All Cores turbo CPU frequencies, given the announced specifications(singlecore boost) for R5 7600/R7 7700/R9 7900.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1609031766710562818

https://twitter.com/x/status/1609031642156531712

https://twitter.com/TUM_APISAK/status/1609031520668512256?s=20&t=IWOyOQCi7SvZrbfw5aOvNA

AMD Ryzen 7000 non-X series to launch January 10th, Ryzen 9 7900 faster than 5900X - VideoCardz.com

AMD Ryzen 7000 non-X series now have a release date Slides confirm the price and release date of the upcoming Ryzen 7000 CPUs. As mentioned before, AMD is launching its new Ryzen CPUs for its AM5 socket next month. The company is preparing three models: 12-core Ryzen 9 7900, 8-core Ryzen 7 7700...

videocardz.com

 

[nicalandia]

Well Deserved Award...

AMD EPYC 9004 Genoa STH Editors Choice Award Winner 2022

STH is giving our first Editor's Choice Award in two years to the AMD EPYC 9004 "Genoa" line because it is a huge leap forward for servers

www.servethehome.com

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

AMD Ryzen 7000 Zen4 CPUs are 5 times less popular than Zen3 according to December retailer sales

I just checked prices of different platforms in my country and I must say I am not surprised Zen4 is not selling well.

I made a table with different configurations, which I can buy in my country. For AM5 I chose the cheapest board and RAM, the same for LGA1700 DDR5.

Platform	CPU	Board	RAM	Cooler	GPU
AM4	R5 5500	ASUS PRIME B550M-A	32GB DDR4 3200MHz CL16	Wraith Stealth	Inno3D RTX 3060 Twin X2
AM4	R5 5600G	ASUS PRIME B550M-A	32GB DDR4 3200MHz CL16	Wraith Stealth	IGP or Inno3D RTX 3060 Twin X
AM4	R7 5700G	ASUS PRIME B550M-A	32GB DDR4 3200MHz CL16	Wraith Stealth	IGP or Inno3D RTX 3060 Twin X2
AM4	R7 5800X3D	ASUS PRIME B550M-A	32GB DDR4 3200MHz CL16	ARCTIC Freezer 34 eSports DUO	Inno3D RTX 3060 Twin X2
AM5	R5 7600X	GIGABYTE B650M DS3H	32GB DDR5 4800MHz CL38	ARCTIC Freezer 34 eSports DUO	IGP or Inno3D RTX 3060 Twin X
AM5	R7 7700X	GIGABYTE B650M DS3H	32GB DDR5 4800MHz CL38	ARCTIC Freezer 34 eSports DUO	Inno3D RTX 3060 Twin X2
LGA1700	i5-12400F	GIGABYTE B660M DS3H DDR4	32GB DDR4 3200MHz CL16	Box cooler	Inno3D RTX 3060 Twin X2
LGA1700	i5-12400	GIGABYTE B660M DS3H DDR4	32GB DDR4 3200MHz CL16	Box cooler	IGP or Inno3D RTX 3060 Twin X2
LGA1700	i5-13600KF	GIGABYTE B660M DS3H DDR4	32GB DDR4 3200MHz CL16	ARCTIC Freezer 34 eSports DUO	Inno3D RTX 3060 Twin X2
LGA1700	i5-13600K	ASUS TUF GAMING B660M-PLUS WIFI	32GB DDR5 4800MHz CL38	ARCTIC Freezer 34 eSports DUO	Inno3D RTX 3060 Twin X2

Platform cost	CPU	Board	RAM	Cooler	GPU	total price
AM4 R5 5500 6C12T	€106.90	€104.90	€91.90	€0	€370.90	€674.60
AM4 R5 5600G 6C12T	€139.90	€104.90	€91.90	€0	€0 or €370.90	€336.70 or €707.60
AM4 R7 5700G 8C16T	€208.90	€104.90	€91.90	€0	€0 or €370.90	€405.70 or €776.60
AM4 R7 5800X3D 8C16T	€410.90	€104.90	€91.90	€66,90	€370.90	€1045.50
AM5 R7 7600X 6C12T	€283.90	€175.90	€149.90	€66,90	€0 or €370.90	€676.60 or €1047.50
AM5 R7 7700X 8C16T	€398.90	€175.90	€149.90	€66,90	€370.90	€1162.50
DDR4 LGA1700 i5-12400F 6C12T	€190.90	€108.90	€91.90	€0	€370.90	€762.60
DDR4 LGA1700 i5-12400 6C12T	€213.90	€108.90	€91.90	€0	€0 or €370.90	€414.70 or €785.60
DDR4 LGA1700 i5-13600KF 14C20T	€323.90	€108.90	€91.90	€66,90	€370.90	€962.50
DDR5 LGA1700 i5-13600K 14C20T	€356.90	€176,90	€149.90	€66,90	€370.90	€1121.50

If you are on budget, then R5 5500 wins, but is also a lot weaker in gaming than 12400F, but that test was with RTX 3080. Performance/price ratio could be comparable with RTX 3060.
6-8C Cezanne is a lot weaker than the new gen, but as an office machine It's a better option than i5-12400.
Zen4 is expensive even for gaming, but for office It's unusable for that price.

 

[Kaluan]

I don't remember if this is the Dragon Range thread but here's ASUS on it:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1610354655028187136

 

[nicalandia]

I don't remember if this is the Dragon Range thread but here's ASUS on it:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1610354655028187136

It was just release, very powerful CPU indeed.

 

[igor_kavinski]

What are they going to do for cooling such a powerful mobile CPU? Should be something new. AMD is averse to making heavy, noisy, hot laptops.

 

[moinmoin]

What are they going to do for cooling such a powerful mobile CPU? Should be something new. AMD is averse to making heavy, noisy, hot laptops.

These are not really mobile but DTR chips similar to those Intel is pushing since several gens already.

 

[igor_kavinski]

These are not really mobile but DTR chips similar to those Intel is pushing since several gens already.

But they are doing PBO on a laptop. Isn't that going to increase the voltage, generating heat more rapidly?

 

[Markfw]

But they are doing PBO on a laptop. Isn't that going to increase the voltage, generating heat more rapidly?

Maybe.... In desktop, sometimes you can get better performance with less vcore (makes for less heat). PBO is strange.

 

[moinmoin]

But they are doing PBO on a laptop. Isn't that going to increase the voltage, generating heat more rapidly?

I'm going to guess that AMD sets defaults that are still somewhat sane for a mobile form factor, and ASUS built a chassis with way more headroom and uses PBO to make use of said headroom.

 

[Kaluan]

These are not really mobile but DTR chips similar to those Intel is pushing since several gens already.

ASUS (or whover is their ODM) has put desktop Ryzen chips in laptops since late 2017 (8 core, never heard of before). So none of this is new for ODMs or AMD, Intel isn't pushing anything new, except PL2 values lol
I hear some 13th gen HX have a PL2=175W

 

[Timmah!]

Any new info about the X3D stuff ahead of the conference? I see exact dates for the non-X chips release, but nothing of the sort about X3D. This makes me think they are still months rather than weeks away.

 

[moinmoin]

ASUS (or whover is their ODM) has put desktop Ryzen chips in laptops since late 2017

So did Schenker XMG and others (ODM being Uniwill and/or Clevo?). Doesn't change that socketed desktop chips in laptops are far more of a niche than Dragon Range will be. And offering desktop dies for laptops is something Intel has been doing for much longer already to be able to compete with AMD's amount of cores offered.

 

[In2Photos]

Don't know if this is legit or not, but would be impressive.

AMD reportedly planning Ryzen 7 7800X3D Zen4 processor with 3D V-Cache - VideoCardz.com

AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D is 21 to 30% faster than 5800X3D according to leaked slide Moore’s Law is Dead published a performance chart for the upcoming Ryzen 7 7800X3D CPU. Given the name of the processor, this should be the 8-core variant of Zen4 desktop CPU with 3D V-Cache. The slide does not...

videocardz.com

 

[nicalandia]

Don't know if this is legit or not, but would be impressive.

it's accurate. Those numbers have been floating around for quite a few months now.

 

[Karnak]

Doesn't look right. According to TPU the 7700X is ~39% faster in CS:GO than the 5800X3D so a 7800X3D with only +23% would be way slower.

That doesn't make sense unless it's clocked at something like 4.x GHz. Which I doubt.

 

[nicalandia]

Doesn't look right. According to TPU the 7700X is ~39% faster in CS:GO than the 5800X3D so a 7800X3D with only +23% would be way slower.

That doesn't make sense unless it's clocked at something like 4.x GHz. Which I doubt.

At same Speed

 

[biostud]

it's accurate. Those numbers have been floating around for quite a few months now.

View attachment 73919

Very wierd game selection, Rainbow six and CS:GO showed no improvement with 3D cache from 5800X to 5800X3D, and Warhammer: Dawn of War III???, maybe someone confused it with Total War: Warhammer 3 when they made up the graph?

 

[nicalandia]

AMD is Sandbagging again, The 5800X3D Speed is 4.5 Ghz so they are clocking the 7800X3D at 4.5 Ghz. At 5.5 Ghz tha'ts an additional 22% speed boost

 

[Karnak]

The 5800X3D Speed is 4.5 Ghz so they are clocking the 7800X3D at 4.5 Ghz.

That would make a lot more sense if they're doing this and these numbers are directly from AMD. Which I still doubt for now since... well it's MLID. You never know.

I just want an X3D announcement tonight. Don't care about some 65W TDP Desktop-CPUs tbh.

 

[nicalandia]

Well it's MLID. You never know.

I trust MLID, he has been spot on multiple times(except when He giving false info to discredit him)

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

I trust MLID, he has been spot on multiple times(except when He giving false info to discredit him)

He's also been so quick to pump out a video only a few hours after big leaks are posted to twitter by other leakers. Whether it's because he's blatantly ripping off any and every grain of information he can to profit or the inside leakers are leaking to multiple outlets is the question.