Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

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Vattila

Vattila

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Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

Untitled2.png


What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts! :)
 
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eek2121

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BorisTheBlade82 said:
@DrMrLordX
Even the newest QC SD 8 Gen 2 has a 64bit only prime core, 2 64bit and 2 32bit Performance cores and another 3 32bit efficiency cores - mind blowing. But somehow this seems to work for 32bit apps at runtime.
Click to expand...

It’s entirely possible to support different feature sets that are present/absent on different cores. The fact that it isn’t supported is a software issue. I don’t remember much about the Win32/64 executable format nor the Linux executable formats (I used to do low level development back in the Windows 95 days, but that was almost 30 years ago), but all you would really need to do is expose the feature requirement in the file header and make the OS schedule the application on the appropriate CPU.

I am unsure why Microsoft hasn’t come up with a way to do this. Or why they haven’t come up with a better system for thread priority. I understand they want to keep hardware abstraction in place, but…
 
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BorisTheBlade82

BorisTheBlade82

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Harry_Wild

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wccftech.com

AMD Ryzen 7000 Non-X 65W CPUs Launching On 10th of January, Ryzen 9 7900 Up To 35% Faster In Gaming Vs 5900X

Leaked slides have confirmed that AMD will officially launch its Ryzen 7000 Non-X 65W Desktop CPUs on the 10th of January.
wccftech.com wccftech.com

AMD Ryzen 7000 Non-X 65W CPUs Headed To AM5 On The 10th of January, Ryzen 9 7900 Up To 35% Faster Than 5900X In Gaming
As we had posted in our exclusive earlier this month, AMD will present three new models in its new Ryzen 7000 Non-X Desktop CPU family on January 10, 2023, the Ryzen 9 7900 with 12 cores, the Ryzen 7 7700 with 8 cores, and the Ryzen 5 7600 with 6 cores. The three new models will feature the Zen 4 core architecture with a TDP of 65W, which is lower than the previously released series that offered up to 170W.

I am going big this time around! 65W Ryzen 5 7600 with 6 cores. Paired with 2- 8800 speed DDR5 16GB, total 32GB RAM, cheapo MvNe DDR4 1TB and a cheapo motherboard. It will be fast for my needs of internet surfing, email and watching streaming content! :D
 
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igor_kavinski

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Harry_Wild said:
I am going big this time around! 65W Ryzen 5 7600 with 6 cores. Paired with 2- 8800 speed DDR5 16GB, total 32GB RAM, cheapo MvNe DDR4 1TB and a cheapo motherboard. It will be fast for my needs of internet surfing, email and watching streaming content! :D
Click to expand...
You mean DDR5-6800, right? Unless you plan to steal prototypes from some DRAM manufacturer's fabs :D
 
lopri

lopri

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I looked at 13700 runs at Geekbench and most of them are run on 6-series boards, notably 660 chipset boards. Those are likely not fully equipped to allow the 13th gen CPUs to stretch their legs. Even some of the shoddy Z690 boards can cripple these CPUs in multi-threaded tests.
 
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nicalandia

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lopri said:
I looked at 13700 runs at Geekbench and most of them are run on 6-series boards, notably 660 chipset boards. Those are likely not fully equipped to allow the 13th gen CPUs to stretch their legs. Even some of the shoddy Z690 boards can cripple these CPUs in multi-threaded tests.
Click to expand...
The MT score seems to be about right.

Here is the average of multiple runs
1672270411016.png

The 7900X has it beat
1672270728822.png



Why are people surprised that a 7900 in beating a 13700 if the 7900X best the 13700K?
 
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poke01

poke01

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Why would anyone with a lot of money even get Intel CPUs anymore?? Power hungry and no future upgrades. LGA 1700 is a dead platform.
Even if Intel releases a Raptor refresh in 2023 they won't be on Intel 4 and thus the only way to increase speed by increasing power/frequency that means more heat.

With AMD you got the Zen 4 3D chips and Zen 5 100% coming on AM5. Meteor Lake won't even be on LGA 1700 and won't be able to beat Zen 5 if the no desktop MTL rumours are true.
 
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DrMrLordX

DrMrLordX

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poke01 said:
Meteor Lake won't even be on LGA 1700 and won't be able to beat Zen 5 if the no desktop MTL rumours are true.
Click to expand...

That's Arrow Lake's job. Meteor Lake is likely going to see significant clockspeed regression, making it a poor replacement for Raptor Lake in desktops and a doubly-poor competitor for Zen5 in the same scenario.
 
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poke01

poke01

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DrMrLordX said:
That's Arrow Lake's job. Meteor Lake is likely going to see significant clockspeed regression, making it a poor replacement for Raptor Lake in desktops and a doubly-poor competitor for Zen5 in the same scenario.
Click to expand...
yeah we have to see if it comes out on time.
 
lopri

lopri

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DrMrLordX said:
Inadequate power for a vanilla 13700?
Click to expand...
I don't know what exactly its spec is. If it's anything like 85~95% of the 13700K, then yes, it will suffer.

Edit: Found this.

WvDiyTpuQOVZHSVc.jpg


I did not expect those base clocks. Understandable, though.
 
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ondma

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poke01 said:
Why would anyone with a lot of money even get Intel CPUs anymore?? Power hungry and no future upgrades. LGA 1700 is a dead platform.
Even if Intel releases a Raptor refresh in 2023 they won't be on Intel 4 and thus the only way to increase speed by increasing power/frequency that means more heat.

With AMD you got the Zen 4 3D chips and Zen 5 100% coming on AM5. Meteor Lake won't even be on LGA 1700 and won't be able to beat Zen 5 if the no desktop MTL rumours are true.
Click to expand...
If you are interested in multi threaded performance, six and eight core RL are superior to the corresponding AMD cpus because you get similar performance from the big cores plus the added productivity performance from the E cores.
 
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