Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[inf64]

Finally, Ryzen 9 7900X in Geekbench! Via BenchLeaks twitter:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1570769223286247424

Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. X670E AORUS MASTER - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. X670E AORUS MASTER with an AMD Ryzen 9 7900X processor.

browser.geekbench.com

Here is a comparison between 7900X and the average scoring 12900KS: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/17314869?baseline=15863556
Average scores for 12900KS can be found here: https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/intel-core-i9-12900ks

Blue bars are 7900X scores, while 12900KS is baseline 100%:



Edit:
It's boosting really high : https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/17314869.gb5

 

[nicalandia]

From what we have seen so far the 7900X will beat or match the 12900K/KS processors. The 7950X will Reign Supreme for a while until its challenged by the 13900K.

 

[inf64]

Here is 7900X vs 5900X, gen on gen improvements in GB5: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/17314869?baseline=15911358


It's worth noting there is still room for improvement, as AMD listed a 2250pts ST score for 7900X in GB5 (which is around 4% higher than the score we have now):


Compare above gen on gen improvement with Zen 2 (3900XT) -> Zen 3 (5900X) : https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/15911358?baseline=15837931



Comparable ST increase which is crazy and massively bigger MT increase (no surprise as TDP limit is higher, combined with IPC jump). Massive performance jump with new Ryzens

 

[Hans de Vries]

SiSoft Sandra 20/21 Vector SIMD

https://ranker.sisoftware.co.uk/sho...d5eddaedd8eedef88ab787a1c4a19cac8af9c4fc&l=en

 

[Hans de Vries]

SiSoft Sandra 20/21 Image Processing

Details for Result ID AMD Ryzen 9 7950X 16-Core Processor (2M 16C 32T 5.72千兆赫（GHz）, 1.87千兆赫（GHz） IMC, 16x 1兆字节（MB） L2, 2x 32兆字节（MB） L3)

ranker.sisoftware.co.uk

 

[Hans de Vries]

Ryzen 9 7950X and SiSOft Sandra Scientific Analysis

Details for Result ID AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16-Core Processor (2M 16C 32T 5千兆赫（GHz）, 1.8千兆赫（GHz） IMC, 16x 512千字节（kB） L2, 2x 32兆字节（MB） L3)

ranker.sisoftware.co.uk

 

[Hans de Vries]

Ryzen 9 7950X and SiSOft Sandra Financial Analysis

Details for Result ID AMD Ryzen 9 7950X 16-Core Processor (2M 16C 32T 5.72千兆赫（GHz）, 1.87千兆赫（GHz） IMC, 16x 1兆字节（MB） L2, 2x 32兆字节（MB） L3)

ranker.sisoftware.co.uk

Strange outlier for the 5950X in Black-Scholes, see:

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X (Zen3) Review & Benchmarks – CPU 16-core/32-thread Performance – SiSoftware

www.sisoftware.co.uk

 

[nicalandia]

SiSoft Sandra 20/21 Vector SIMD

https://ranker.sisoftware.co.uk/sho...d5eddaedd8eedef88ab787a1c4a19cac8af9c4fc&l=en

View attachment 67662

Wow, That 7950X is just laying waste to anything and everything here...

 

[deasd]

It seems only Quad Int/FP in Vector SIMD Native utilized AVX512, but it's weird that the Quad FP result of 11900k doesnt show any benefit of it.
Also I just realized Vector SIMD tests seems not scale well when core/thread increase, 16C is less than 1.3x faster than 12C.
However it's no doubt 7950X would be dominating Sandra.

 

[nicalandia]

7900X vs 13700KF Geekbench 5

 

[inf64]

Here is 7900X vs 13700K : https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/17314869?baseline=16979552

Different version of the GB on 13700K though along with Windows 10.

 

[nicalandia]

It seems only Quad Int/FP in Vector SIMD Native utilized AVX512, but it's weird that the Quad FP result of 11900k doesnt show any benefit of it.

Client Sunny Cove/Ice Lake have only a single AVX-512 FMA Unit. The throughput is just not there.

 

[Hans de Vries]

It seems only Quad Int/FP in Vector SIMD Native utilized AVX512, but it's weird that the Quad FP result of 11900k doesnt show any benefit of it.

Quad Float does not mean four floating point numbers but calculations using 128 bit Floating Point numbers emulated in software. Only IBM has hardware for 128 bit FP numbers.

 

[wlee15]

Client Sunny Cove/Ice Lake have only a single AVX-512 FMA Unit. The throughput is just not there.

Sunny Lake in addition to Port 5 512-bit unit can combine the units of Port 0 and 1 into a second AVX-512 unit.

 

[Kaluan]

New 7900X GB 5.4.5/W11 result:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1571081900571369474

 

[inf64]

New 7900X GB 5.4.5/W11 result:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1571081900571369474

Noticeably better MT score vs previous sample, I wonder if this chip was running on a better cooling. Now 7900X sits clearly above 13700K in both ST and MT GB benchmarks.

Compared Vs previous sample:

Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. X670E AORUS MASTER vs Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. X670E AORUS MASTER - Geekbench

browser.geekbench.com

Much better subscores in MT benchmarks, likely the same person who submitted the previous result. Memory info on new submissions is a bit odd (showing 4 channels).

 

[inf64]

And here is the new Ryzen 9 7900X GB result vs best to date 13700K : https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/17337799?baseline=17121476

 

[Kaluan]

Noticeably better MT score vs previous sample, I wonder if this chip was running on a better cooling. Now 7900X sits clearly above 13700K in both ST and MT GB benchmarks.

Compared Vs previous sample:

Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. X670E AORUS MASTER vs Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. X670E AORUS MASTER - Geekbench

browser.geekbench.com

View attachment 67696

Much better subscores in MT benchmarks, likely the same person who submitted the previous result. Memory info on new submissions is a bit odd (showing 4 channels).

Might be just a coincidence, despite the same mobo/W11. The first test comes from a German language OS and is v5.4.4, the second one seems English and using the last GB build (5.4.5). First may be running JEDEC spec RAM (or maybr stock/5200), second seems to be running 6000MTs. Dunno about the DDR channel reporting tho, DDR5 is funky sometimes (4 channels isn't exactly untrue for "dual channel" DDR5, but why report differently).

IDK just throwing that out there.
Hopefully we'll get some great deep-dive reviews in 9 days.

 

[inf64]

Looks like the deranged guy behind UB has classified all Zen 4 parts under Advanced Marketing Devices, and hidden the results. Still, we can find them via brand search on their website

AMD Zen 4 Hype Train
Advanced Marketing Devices 7950X

UserBenchmark: AMD Ryzen 9 7950X 100-100000514WOF

cpu.userbenchmark.com

AMD Zen 4 Hype Train
Advanced Marketing Devices 7700X

UserBenchmark: AMD Ryzen 7 7700X 100-100000591WOF

cpu.userbenchmark.com

7950X Vs 12900KS: https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compa...X-vs-Intel-Core-i9-12900KS/m1932596vsm1821519

7700X vs 12700K : https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compa...-7700X-vs-Intel-Core-i7-12700K/m1932239vs4119

Utter destruction

 

[nicalandia]

Looks like the deranged guy behind UB has classified all Zen 4 parts under Advanced Marketing Devices, and hidden the results. Still, we can find them via brand search on their website

AMD Zen 4 Hype Train
Advanced Marketing Devices

Utter destruction

The dude is On Suicide Watch...

 

[nicalandia]

I just found the 7950X results they seem to be from a different source than the resent result from the rest of the SKUs

Details for Result ID AMD Ryzen 9 7950X 16-Core Processor (2M 16C 32T 5.49GHz, 1.33GHz IMC, 16x 1MB L2, 2x 32MB L3)

ranker.sisoftware.co.uk

The Chip seems to have been throttling due to inadequate cooling

Ryzen 9 7950X vs Ryzen 9 7900X Comparison

	R9 7950X	R9 7900X	Difference in %
Whetstone Double	573	429	+34%
Whetstone Single	686	517	+33%
Dhrystone Long	841	919	-9%
Dhrystone Int	848	886	-4 %

 

[DisEnchantment]

Man in Blender the gains are very solid.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1571154854890053638

Very curious about code compile, Simulink and other stuffs

 

[nicalandia]

Using Hans Chart. The Throttled 7950X generational comparison with 5950X/3950X



Also...

 

[inf64]

Even when throttling it's too strong

BTW the below result from blender.org is most likely 13900K ES

 

[Abwx]

Even when throttling it's too strong

BTW the below result from blender.org is most likely 13900K ES

View attachment 67707

At 53% better score than the 12900KS it s surely running at 350W, no way 8 extra e cores would provide such a perf increasement within a 250W power budget.