Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[FlameTail]

This interesting. MLID theorised the minimum AI TOPS requirement for Windows 12 would be 45 TOPS. However, Hawk Point combined TOPS is only 39 TOPS from this slide. So is it Windows 12 compatible?? Anyways he did get it right about Hawk Point having 16 TOPS NPU.

 

[igor_kavinski]

V-Color achieves 8000 MT/s OC speed with DDR5 R-DIMM 96GB memory on ASUS TRX50 Threadripper motherboard - VideoCardz.com

DDR5-8000 memory OC once more, on a different TRX50 motherboard V-Color has sent out a press release confirming the latest achievement with their DDR5 memory. If you believe you have a déjà vu, you are not mistaken. V-Color has already achieved 8000 MT/s speed, but it is on a different...

videocardz.com

8000 MT/s at CL40. TR platform gets better IMC and the desktop Zen 4 consumers got screwed!

^^^ Now I will wait for the posts saying I've lost my marbles

EDIT: Oh, totally different module type. Why can't desktop peasants use these???

 

[Hitman928]

V-Color achieves 8000 MT/s OC speed with DDR5 R-DIMM 96GB memory on ASUS TRX50 Threadripper motherboard - VideoCardz.com

DDR5-8000 memory OC once more, on a different TRX50 motherboard V-Color has sent out a press release confirming the latest achievement with their DDR5 memory. If you believe you have a déjà vu, you are not mistaken. V-Color has already achieved 8000 MT/s speed, but it is on a different...

videocardz.com

8000 MT/s at CL40. TR platform gets better IMC and the desktop Zen 4 consumers got screwed!

^^^ Now I will wait for the posts saying I've lost my marbles

EDIT: Oh, totally different module type. Why can't desktop peasants use these???

Desktop Zen4 can reach those speeds too, it's just typically not worth it due to the fabric clock maxing out and so the ratio of the fabric clock to mem speed gets lower the higher you push the RAM. In the end you spend much more money on memory for the same, if not worse, performance.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Desktop Zen4 can reach those speeds too, it's just typically not worth it due to the fabric clock maxing out and so the ratio of the fabric clock to mem speed gets lower the higher you push the RAM. In the end you spend much more money on memory for the same, if not worse, performance.

They better fix that limitation in Zen 5.

 

[Kepler_L2]

They better fix that limitation in Zen 5.

Nope.

 

[yuri69]

They better fix that limitation in Zen 5.

Zen 5 desktop core count stays the same, so AMD opted to cut the cost by reusing the Zen 4 IOD.

Zen 6 finally redoes the current interconnect architecture so there is a possibility to remove this bottleneck and save same power at the same time.

 

[Abwx]

Some marketshare gains claimed by AMD :

Our revenue market share actually is 29.7%" (CPU DC Server), in the cloud market, we are actually getting to close to 50%" (CPU DC)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1734134376869306529

 

[Tuna-Fish]

I'd really like to know if that's close to 50% of x86 cloud CPUs, or of all cloud CPUs. Because, if the latter, oof.

 

[moinmoin]

I'd really like to know if that's close to 50% of x86 cloud CPUs, or of all cloud CPUs. Because, if the latter, oof.

I'd expect the latter. Where do you see a significant presence of non-x86 cloud CPUs aside at AWS?

 

[Tuna-Fish]

Where do you see a significant presence of non-x86 cloud CPUs aside at AWS?

Just AWS, but it's rather significant there.

 

[moinmoin]

Just AWS, but it's rather significant there.

As Graviton is in-house that may indeed not be included, not being available on the open market. It's competition, but with Amazon being able to claim or withhold any numbers it's likely even harder to quantify than the rest of the market.

 

[SteinFG]

View attachment 89969
This interesting. MLID theorised the minimum AI TOPS requirement for Windows 12 would be 45 TOPS. However, Hawk Point combined TOPS is only 39 TOPS from this slide. So is it Windows 12 compatible?? Anyways he did get it right about Hawk Point having 16 TOPS NPU.

>45 TOPS is for the Windows AI Badge.

 

[FlameTail]

Big Brain Question:

Did AMD rename the Hawk Point GPU as Radeon 880M ?

 

[Timorous]

Big Brain Question:

Did AMD rename the Hawk Point GPU as Radeon 880M ?

No. Still 780M

 

[Abwx]

CPUs + GPUs scaling of Zen 4 SKUs compared to older AMD CPUs, scaling in function of the CPU as well as of the GPU models :

GPU braucht CPU 2023 (AMD): Welche CPU für welche GPU kaufen?

Wie stark limitiert der Prozessor die Grafikkarte und umgekehrt? ComputerBase hat 21 Kombinationen in drei Auflösungen in Spielen getestet.

www.computerbase.de

 

[igor_kavinski]

GPU braucht CPU 2023 (AMD): Welche CPU für welche GPU kaufen?

Wie stark limitiert der Prozessor die Grafikkarte und umgekehrt? ComputerBase hat 21 Kombinationen in drei Auflösungen in Spielen getestet.

www.computerbase.de

Good but wish they had used the 7800X3D.

 

[Abwx]

Good but wish they had used the 7800X3D.

In their gaming tests they have the 7950X3D as 3% faster than the 7800X3D, guess that the former cover the latter s perfs as well..

 

[youself64]

Here's link for benchmarking boot times in copy.sh/v86:

Also, must include pc specs and screenshot with stopwatch + copy.sh/v86.

This is first benchmark of x86 Emulation performance (copy.sh)

I benchmarked dsl linux in copy.sh v86 boot time for me, it takes about 2 minutes to fully boot (i5-2500K, 4GB RAM). So i need to benchmark this in Zen 4 CPUs.



I am not liking this site, and requires more clearification, as it seems to be accessing hardware without consent and to me feels like its data mining.

Please PM me with more info if this is your site, otherwise i will not approve of it as there is no disclaimer when hitting that link in exactly what its doing.

Moderator Aigo

 

[igor_kavinski]

I benchmarked dsl linux in copy.sh v86 boot time for me, it takes about 2 minutes to fully boot (i5-2500K, 4GB RAM). So i need to benchmark this in Zen 4 CPUs.

But this brings the browser into the equation as well as the network speed. Wouldn't really be a true test of the CPU's emulation speed.

 

[gdansk]

I tested it on Windows with Chrome on various machines. I'm not sure how you wanted it measured. The uptime counter at first full paint showed:
7950X - 24 seconds.
5800X3D - 27 seconds.
7840U - 28 seconds.
7800X3D - 24 seconds.

And Mac OS with
M1 Pro - 26 seconds (Chrome), 37 seconds (Safari).

And Linux with
N100 - 34 seconds (Firefox).

It doesn't seem like a very good benchmark?

 

[igor_kavinski]

I tested it on Windows with Chrome on various machines.

Damn. You whetted my appetite for Raptor Lake benchmark scores.

Also, how fast do the M3 and latest iPhone do it?

 

[gdansk]

Damn. You whetted my appetite for Raptor Lake benchmark scores.

Also, how fast do the M3 and latest iPhone do it?

I don't have an iPhone or M3 device to test, sorry.

@aigomorla I'm pretty sure it's just another JavaScript x86 emulator. See here https://github.com/copy/v86

 

[aigomorla]

I don't have an iPhone or M3 device to test, sorry.

@aigomorla I'm pretty sure it's just another JavaScript x86 emulator. See here https://github.com/copy/v86

I know but what im worried about is what the hosting site is collecting as your running the java script as its picking and detecting hardware.

If it was a non web based software, and you ran it in the confiments of your own space, then im okey, but the fact is its web based, and looks like it was data mining, which is against TOS and illegal in some states/countries, without consent.

 

[inf64]

Edit: oops, wrong thread for Zen 5 projection , my bad

I posted it in the correct thread.

 

[jpiniero]

AMD reportedly set to launch EPYC 4004 series for AM5 socket - VideoCardz.com

AMD preparing EPYC 4004 series Will use the AM5 package. Consumer Raphael chips will soon be available in a new variant. The data-center-oriented EPYC series is said to receive a new variant called 4004. The series will join an extended lineup of EPYC Zen4 CPUs, which now span across 5 segments...

videocardz.com

Ooh interesting. Epyc branded Raphael is coming on AM5. Maybe a 32 core Zen 4c?