Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

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Vattila

Vattila

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Oct 22, 2004
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Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

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What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts! :)
 
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maddie

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Jul 18, 2010
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Kaluan said:
Did anyone check the Ryzen 7000 SKUs listing on AMD's website BTW? Why do they say "requires discrete GPU", I thought they come with a small RDNA2 iGPU?
Click to expand...
What I was thinking. No mention of iGPU. Is it there or not?
 
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Carfax83

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Nov 1, 2010
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shady28 said:
Why would they use AMD EXPO memory timings on Alder Lake?
Click to expand...

I'm not necessarily calling shenanigans, but AMD definitely didn't configure the 12900K optimally.

DDR5 6000 in a 1:1 ratio with Zen 4s IF speed is optimal for Zen 4 but not the 12900K. The 12900K would have been better coupled with DDR5 6400 CL32 in gear 2.

The final third party reviews will provide the truth however.
 
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Joe NYC

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1661824237286.png

Translation to English: RIP Sapphire Rapids

2 CCDs * 32.5W = 65W
Milan can fit 8 of them 8x32.5W) inside its TDP
Genoa can fit 12 of them (12x32.5W) inside its TDP

So, Genoa performance could be 12 CCD / 8 CCD * 74% efficiency increase
which is 1.5 * 1.74 = 2.61

Then Genoa performance will be +161% over Milan.
 
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Panino Manino

Panino Manino

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I was expecting Zen 4 be much more modest, something between Zen+ and Zen 2, good enough but a bit disappointing. So for me this whole reveal felt like "big if true".

One more month until we discover if it's all true.

And stop crying about the prices!
 
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Vope45

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Oct 4, 2020
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Panino Manino said:
I was expecting Zen 4 be much more modest, something between Zen+ and Zen 2, good enough but a bit disappointing. So for me this whole reveal felt like "big if true".

One more month until we discover if it's all true.

And stop crying about the prices!
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It's not ideal but remember amd priced in these chips according to competitiveness. Intel price will be +10% at least for raptor lake. Either raptor will be slightly better or zen 4 continue to sells like hot cake. I heard from so many friends working in the industry saying amd is VERY confident about zen 4. Perhaps it's not a secret anymore but zen 4 v cache will be extremely appealing. Their plan is to shock and awe intel buyers into submission.
 
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Mopetar

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The iGPU is going to be crud regardless of clocks, but if your only GPU dies on you it doesn't turn your 16 core CPU into an expensive paperweight if you don't have a spare card on hand.

Can't wait to see what the 7800X3D ends up looking like.
 
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HurleyBird

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Apr 22, 2003
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Asterox said:
Earlier rumors were 1100mhz for 2CU iGPU frequency.But as we see, 2200mhz is iGPU(RDNA2) frequency or 200mhz lower speed vs the fastest Rembrandt APU.
Click to expand...

So perhaps a bit below 2/3rds the perf of the Exynos 2200. Nothing to write home about, but it's not nothing.
 
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gdansk

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Feb 8, 2011
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Joe NYC said:
View attachment 66786

Translation to English: RIP Sapphire Rapids

2 CCDs * 32.5W = 65W
Milan can fit 8 of them 8x32.5W) inside its TDP
Genoa can fit 12 of them (12x32.5W) inside its TDP

So, Genoa performance could be 12 CCD / 8 CCD * 74% efficiency increase
which is 1.5 * 1.74 = 2.61

Then Genoa performance will be +161% over Milan.
Click to expand...
Do remember that they probably mean 65W TDP = 88W PPT. While for Milan/Genoa TDP = PPT.

Asterox said:
Earlier rumors were 1100mhz for 2CU iGPU frequency.But as we see, 2200mhz is iGPU(RDNA2) frequency or 200mhz lower speed vs the fastest Rembrandt APU.



Click to expand...
1.1 tflops. A bit behind in tflops HD 770 in Alder Lake but RDNA2 is probably better despite that.
But for media transcode I bet Intel will have better support for many years to come.
 
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Mopetar

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Ranulf said:
No. Time will tell if the price/perf is worth it. I doubt it will be on the low er mid end skus. High end will probably be worth it for 12-16c chips.
Click to expand...

What's there to complain about? The prices are basically the same as Zen 3 only the x950X and the 8-core (branded x700X instead of x800X this time around) are cheaper by $100 and $50 respectively.

Things only got better, especially considering how high inflation has been lately. I won't be surprised if we see a repeat of Zen 3 with shortages and scalping, which basically shows AMD isn't charging nearly as much as they could be.
 
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Exist50

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gdansk said:
But for media transcode I bet Intel will have better support for many years to come.
Click to expand...
On that topic, has there been any info on what media encoder AMD's using? Raptor Lake will surely reuse Alder Lake's, so there's possibly an opportunity for AMD there.
 
Rigg

Rigg

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Carfax83 said:
I'm not necessarily calling shenanigans, but AMD definitely didn't configure the 12900K optimally.

DDR5 6000 in a 1:1 ratio with Zen 4s IF speed is optimal for Zen 4 but not the 12900K. The 12900K would have been better coupled with DDR5 6400 CL32 in gear 2.

The final third party reviews will provide the truth however.
Click to expand...
Well sure, 6400 CL32 g2 would have been optimal, but would it really matter that much? 6000 CL30 is still very good. The difference between 3200 CL14 DDR4 and 6400 CL32 DDDR5 is 10% (8 game average) in gaming @1080p w/3090ti. Seems like ya'll are grasping at straws.
 
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Joe NYC

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Mopetar said:
What's there to complain about? The prices are basically the same as Zen 3 only the x950X and the 8-core (branded x700X instead of x800X this time around) are cheaper by $100 and $50 respectively.

Things only got better, especially considering how high inflation has been lately. I won't be surprised if we see a repeat of Zen 3 with shortages and scalping, which basically shows AMD isn't charging nearly as much as they could be.
Click to expand...

During non-public Q+A with journalists, AMD said there will be no supply constraints on Zen 4.
 
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Asterox

Asterox

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Mopetar said:
The iGPU is going to be crud regardless of clocks, but if your only GPU dies on you it doesn't turn your 16 core CPU into an expensive paperweight if you don't have a spare card on hand.

Can't wait to see what the 7800X3D ends up looking like.
Click to expand...

Don't insult Vega 3 iGPU, or in iGPU gaming RDNA 2CU it will still be faster than the old Vega. :grinning:

AMD VCN(probably identical to the Rembrandt APU, VCN 3.1)is the more important part, considering that every AMD Ryzen APU has VCN.

 
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exquisitechar

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It's more or less as expected. Getting microarchitectural details is nice, and $699 for the 7950X is better than I thought, at least.

Wonder who will do a SPEC comparison now that Ian and Andrei are gone from AT.
 
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