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Speculation: Ryzen 4000 series/Zen 3

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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
17,443
6,432
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AMD had the "fastest" gaming CPU's at launch, a halo product stack, how was the price increase the end of the world?
It wasn't, it's just annoying. And the worst part is that it was impossible to get Vermeer at MSRP for a long time, except maybe a 5800x.

I don't really care if it's a halo products or not. Lisa Su may have a fiduciary responsibility to charge people as much as the market will bear, but I certainly don't have a responsibility to gladhand them every time they do it. Prices going up due to lack of competition sucks. Prices going up due to dueling duopolies sucks.

Competition is good. When there isn't any, we all lose in some way or another.

And ,yet, i remember during Bulldozer era when Intel jacked up their prices to ridiculous levels , (1000$ for 6c and 1700$ for 8c) ,i guess then was pretty much okay , then.
Yup, new reg, checks out.

NO IT WASN'T.
 
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Gideon

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
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"No performance improvements" indicates AMD hasn't gone out of their way to change anything specifically for higher frequencies in the design or the packaging. But seeing as it comes a while after the B0 stepping, I guess on average B2 stepping dies may clock better just down to node maturity improving.
Could it be some security fixes to combat newly found flaws? Such as this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/n373my
 
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B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
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It wasn't, it's just annoying. And the worst part is that it was impossible to get Vermeer at MSRP for a long time, except maybe a 5800x.

I don't really care if it's a halo products or not. Lisa Su may have a fiduciary responsibility to charge people as much as the market will bear, but I certainly don't have a responsibility to gladhand them every time they do it. Prices going up due to lack of competition sucks. Prices going up due to dueling duopolies sucks.

Competition is good. When there isn't any, we all lose in some way or another.



Yup, new reg, checks out.

NO IT WASN'T.
The 3090 is the nVidia halo product, but there are products below it, just like there are products below Zen3.

I don't understand dismissing halo products when they are a real thing, and cost a premium.
 
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moinmoin

Platinum Member
Jun 1, 2017
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It wasn't, it's just annoying. And the worst part is that it was impossible to get Vermeer at MSRP for a long time, except maybe a 5800x.
I keep thinking you are exaggerating where it isn't necessary. Products not being available at MSRP due to higher demand than supply is something stores and scalpers profit of, not AMD. And complaits about higher MSRPs kind of fall flat when prices fall below it once availability is actually there. There are other companies that ensure their products stick to the MSRP regardless of the age, and AMD historically hasn't been one of them.

Could it be some security fixes to combat newly found flaws? Such as this:
Possibly, though one would expect such fixes to require more changes than doable in a new stepping to fix.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
17,443
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136
I keep thinking you are exaggerating where it isn't necessary. Products not being available at MSRP due to higher demand than supply is something stores and scalpers profit of, not AMD.
Yet. They're watching the scalp action. I predicted the price increase of Vermeer based on the XT release. I got slagged for it. I was right anyway. So . . . nah, I'm not a genius. It's just easy to see how market forces can change things. Sooner or later AMD will figure out how to scalp their own product. It worked for Ticketmaster. The question is: how far will they go in that direction? Retailers are already doing it with AMD's own products. Even Microcenter did it, albeit only sporadically. What will AMD do in response?

And complaits about higher MSRPs kind of fall flat when prices fall below it once availability is actually there.
That's somewhat surprising, and I've yet to sort out exactly why this is happening or towards what end, except maybe as a "we're sorry we couldn't supply product for six months, here's a discount" kind of thing. Either that or they're making a volume push which is an interesting play given current circumstances.

edit: I went and took a look at eBay prices for Vermeer and I was a bit shocked. Prices are plummeting on everything but the 5900x which is still apparently quite difficult to get. Scalpers are getting rinsed. Maybe THAT'S what AMD is up to hmm?
 
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Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
8,900
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"No performance improvements" indicates AMD hasn't gone out of their way to change anything specifically for higher frequencies in the design or the packaging. But seeing as it comes a while after the B0 stepping, I guess on average B2 stepping dies may clock better just down to node maturity improving.
The change could be just an errata fix (especially if it's for Milan) or minor tweaks to take advantage of the maturity of N7 to increase the number of chiplet that bin high. What ever it is, it was worth it to AMD to pay for some new masks (not a full set).
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
8,900
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Well, there's a statement from AMD that there is no new functionality or improved performance, so...
I'm guessing it's a patch for the new security vulnerabilities in x86 processors. boo hoo.
 

firewolfsm

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2005
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I doubt it's that. They seemed more difficult to fix than that, and I think AMD would have promoted the fact if they did manage to fix that so quickly.
 
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uzzi38

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2019
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Well, there's a statement from AMD that there is no new functionality or improved performance, so...
I'm guessing it's a patch for the new security vulnerabilities in x86 processors. boo hoo.
I still think it's something to do with improving yields. With DDR5 volumes not expected to outstrip DDR4 until mid 2023, Zen 3 is going to be an extremely long lived core (and Milan will be a very long lived platform).

Investing in optimising yields now makes a lot of sense given that it'll be saving them money over the next 2-3 years and helping maximising volumes as well.
 
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Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
8,900
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I still think it's something to do with improving yields. With DDR5 volumes not expected to outstrip DDR4 until mid 2023, Zen 3 is going to be an extremely long lived core (and Milan will be a very long lived platform).

Investing in optimising yields now makes a lot of sense given that it'll be saving them money over the next 2-3 years and helping maximising volumes as well.
I agree, but AMD is denying it for now. Maybe they don't want to scare off buyers as they are on the brink of being able to meet worldwide demand.
 

lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
1,708
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In your mind ,AMD needs to sell a Ferrari LaFerrari performance - like cpu while having a price of Toyota Camry , right?
Well, at least you got a bit of recognition by firing a cheap shot in the dark, considering I never thought or said anything even remotely close to what you mentioned. One of the fastest ignores I've ever handed out, well done and welcome to the forum, I guess? :)
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
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I agree, but AMD is denying it for now. Maybe they don't want to scare off buyers as they are on the brink of being able to meet worldwide demand.
Yeah, I would think Intel is quietly expelling bricks from the behind thinking about non-X Zen3, because, they are unlocked, and, can run on B450 / X470 boards.

So one of AMD's biggest blunders, not wanting to support older chip-sets, then back pedaling, just became a huge huge advantage.

It may take a bit longer for them to come out after the OEM orders are filled, but holy guacamole, Zen3 for $200 or less is going to be a blood bath for Intel.

And when it does drop, all us early adopters that spent the big $ are going to look silly :(
 

moinmoin

Platinum Member
Jun 1, 2017
2,559
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And when it does drop, all us early adopters that spent the big $ are going to look silly :(
Nah, it's a good early access entry fee. It's already over half a year since the launch, and we still have only the same four choices from the launch. At least now that availability improves prices are falling.
 

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