Speculation: Ryzen 3000 series

[beginner99]

Hah, it's still better value than the 3800x. More cores/$ and a higher turbo.

I think the 3800x is there to make the 3900x look cheaper than it is. That's why I choose 3700x as reference.

 

[NTMBK]

4 cores per CCX confirmed- had we seen that before? Some people were still discussing an 8 core CCX recently.

 

[TheGiant]

IThe great lengths some people take just to keep buying intel products despite almost other metric be favorable for AMD and zen 2

Also, you can either:

- buy x470/b450 mobos and still be fine but no pci e 4.

- just unplug the damn fan/remove it altogether. You just lose the ability of running raid nvme pci e 4.0 (well you can but that chipset will be hotter than a 9900KS).

Sorry to offend your chipset fan....

I am on enthusiast forum, and suddenly I am reading about no need for Pcie-4, how come people here recommending buying x470 boards ...

The great lengths some people take just to keep hidden AMD fans arguments

I just dont get it how is pro intel comment that I dont want a small fan on my board chipset (with very distinctive sound as the small fans always have no matter what you do)

about that unplug- no really thanks, try it yourself

I can not believe what I am reading on enthusiast forum and with lots of applause... sometimes I understand why people like theStilt left

sorry mods, this is too much

 

[B-Riz]

Well the 3950x seems to be bad value. From 3700x to 3900x you get 50% more cores for 51% more $. From 3900x to 3950x you get 33% more cores for 50% more $.

Yeah, I think HCC is going to be better on TR3.

BOLD PREDICTIONS

TR3 will have a 16c/32t, but the real prize will be the 24c/48t and up units.

GUESSING, they will have the same or better clocks than AM4 parts.

 

[B-Riz]

IS NO ONE EXCITED ABOUT THE REVISED MEMORY STUFFS AND NEW INFINITY FABRIC??

I am.

But, Intel still has lower memory latency.

 

[Gideon]

Computerbase also has a good article up about Zen 2

These 2 slides seem particularily interesting and weren't mentioned in Anandtech article. It looks like PBO has 200Mhz auto-overclock headroom (though I'm not sure it's clocking up nearly as much on the faster SKUs)

 

[IntelUser2000]

But, Intel still has lower memory latency.

That's close enough that the practical differences might be very small.

Also, for a design that uses MCM, the latencies are quite amazing, because the memory controller isn't even on the same die as the CPU.

I do wonder about CPPC2. I want to see if the clock selection timings are based on per frequency changes, or whether its total time it takes to go from idle to maximum.

Speedshift's 15ms transition on Kabylake is from idle to max.

The 30ms with pre-2019 update AMD shows on their presentation seems interestingly close to the per frequency step transition times speedshift disabled Intel chips are at: https://www.anandtech.com/show/1095...ration-kaby-lake-i7-7700k-i5-7600k-i3-7350k/3
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14525/amd-zen-2-microarchitecture-analysis-ryzen-3000-and-epyc-rome/3

The 1-2ms transition with Zen 2 also looks very similar to per frequency step transition on Kaby Lake with SpeedShift v2.

 

[Atari2600]

Sorry to offend your chipset fan....

I am on enthusiast forum, and suddenly I am reading about no need for Pcie-4, how come people here recommending buying x470 boards ...

Sure tell you what, go buy the Intel CPU+Motherboard with PCIe4.

Oh... what do you mean you can't?


If you don't want a fan, then pay the big bucks for the passive solutions. If you don't want to pay big money, then buy the x470 and forego PCIe4.

Yeah, the fan isn't great - but it ain't the end of the redacted world - quit whining like it is. What you'll save getting an equivalent performing AMD CPU relative to Intel can be spent on the passive motherboard and you'll end up with an approximately similar performing (or better) platform with PCIe4 and no fan.

Profanity (even in abbreviated form)
is not allowed in the tech forums.

AT Mod Usandthem

 

[D00m3dHitm4n]

I haven't seen a date for the 3k series review NDA, did I somehow miss it or has it not been mentioned when the NDA will lift?

 

[Kedas]

This 12 core is better than 8 core intel on youtube doesn't make sense?
This was the same they did 8 core versus 4 core in the past
Sure a difference but not that much.

 

[Atari2600]

This 12 core is better than 8 core intel on youtube doesn't make sense?
This was the same they did 8 core versus 4 core in the past
Sure a difference but not that much.

I think they wanted to concentrate on the streaming & gaming bit of it.

No idea how representative their settings were of the real world though - and can GPUs take that task from CPU too?

 

[TheGiant]

Sure tell you what, go buy the Intel CPU+Motherboard with PCIe4.

Oh... what do you mean you can't?


If you don't want a fan, then pay the big bucks for the passive solutions. If you don't want to pay big money, then buy the x470 and forego PCIe4.

Yeah, the fan isn't great - but it ain't the end of the ***king world - quit whining like it is. What you'll save getting an equivalent performing AMD CPU relative to Intel can be spent on the passive motherboard and you'll end up with an approximately similar performing (or better) platform with PCIe4 and no fan.

Stop making AMD fanboy arguments....I am not talking about Intel/AMD, but about the simple content of..... chipset fan and its annoying 4cm noise on desktop
I dont have a problem of paying, I have problem with the content I pay for...we all know pci e-4 is just marketing on desktop and currently 600 EUR board from gigabyte is the price to get that nice to have feature
we should be innovating with less not more power and all that xxx W CPUs with hidden TDP rating nonsense for modern lies
Intel screwed it with so called 95W tdp rating 9900K, let's wait for AMD what reviews for performance, heat, power, platform power and cooling required show

 

[Vattila]

Hi all, thanks for keeping this thread going (for 166 pages!), with much interesting discussion (though, however with some of that inevitable bickering). I never thought my thread would become the catch-all thread for Ryzen 3000. The thread was meant to speculate on architecture. However, now that the details have been presented at E3, it may be time to put this thread to rest.

In the end, AMD delivered chiplet architecture! The future is here!

 

[Atari2600]

I dont have a problem of paying, I have problem with the content I pay for...we all know pci e-4 is just marketing on desktop and currently 600 EUR board from gigabyte is the price to get that nice to have feature

I have a problem understanding your argument.

You freely state:
1. PCIe4 is just marketing for desktop
2. €600 boards are the only way to have passive heatsinks on AM4 boards.

From which I conclude:
1. You must need PCIe4 for professional use.
2. You aren't willing to pay professional platform prices for professional platform features.

Mercedes don't sell the S-Class for €25k. Rationally people don't expect them to. You can buy a C-Class for a bit less of course, but your getting less.

 

[TheGiant]

I have a problem understanding your argument.

You freely state:
1. PCIe4 is just marketing for desktop
2. €600 boards are the only way to have passive heatsinks on AM4 boards.

From which I conclude:
1. You must need PCIe4 for professional use.
2. You aren't willing to pay professional platform prices for professional platform features.

Mercedes don't sell the S-Class for €25k. Rationally people don't expect them to. You can buy a C-Class for a bit less of course, but your getting less.

I expect innovation with honest marketing-from AMD (sadly to say not from Intel, they are lying whenever they are hidden by nice speech)

PCI-e 4 was marketed as new desktop innovation not (only) professional. If you ask people here if they expected pcie 4 as something special for 300+ eur boards, you will get negative answers. All what was discussed was that AMD is going ahead with pcie4, not that is going ahead withn expensive board, chipset fan and overquality VRMs. (btw that sound to me fishy really waiting for the reviews)

Desktop. Not WS, not server.

I dont expect desktop prices for professional use (as for the car example, I have MB gls 63amg and bmw 540i xdrive and I never expected to buy them for 25k or so, and they didnt promote it that way).

on this forum, AMD is I dont know why promoted as righteous knight
I expect innovation

I have a i5-6600k undervolted oced to 4.4GHz which while stress testing consumes 41-47W, 4C4T with 32GB 3000 CL16 RAM and samsungs 850pro SSDs- bought january 2016 or so
that system is quiet while idle, quiet while full load, has quick short burst power

to get that quiet system while being 10% or more powerful with 4T shouldnt be a problem in 2019- but it is, Intel failed in that one and I am dissapointed that platform wise I will probably buy the same as my asrock z170pro4- pci-e 3 with x470 because of that fan....

 

[Gikaseixas]

Well the 3950x seems to be bad value. From 3700x to 3900x you get 50% more cores for 51% more $. From 3900x to 3950x you get 33% more cores for 50% more $.

You're well aware that top chips command premiums. Consider 9700K and 9900K comparison or GTX 2080 and GTX 2080TI

They're not the best value period

 

[Atari2600]

I expect innovation

Do you expect AMD to have delayed Zen2 to develop the chipset on 7nm? That is about the only thing they could have done to pull power down to the levels needed for (small) passive heatsinks.

PCIe4 is available on desktop at a cost. You don't want to pay it, get a B550 or reuse a X470. If you do want it, the cheaper option is with fan, the expensive option without.

Range of choices across a range of price points. The top end doesn't come without top end costs. That is the way it always has been.

AMD have innovated and your still not happy.

 

[dnavas]

You're well aware that top chips command premiums. Consider 9700K and 9900K comparison or GTX 2080 and GTX 2080TI. They're not the best value period

Or the 1800X at release.
Might say something about TR pricing, though. 1900X was $50 more than the 1800X, so maybe we'll get a 16 core TR4 at $800 ($50 premium to 3950X -- 3950WX??). Per-core pricing for 2950 and 2990 seems headed to that price point as well.... I was rather hoping for 24/32/48 at 800, 1200, 1600, but unless they're aiming for a really late TR4 launch, or they're hoping to squash 3950X volumes, that doesn't seem like a reasonable expectation.

 

[IEC]

There's a cost to everything, and with the increased # of traces and motherboard layers required for PCIe4... it will command a premium for a while. Eventually, economies of scale will catch up and the premium will decrease over time.

The best time to purchase a new X570 motherboard and a 3950X won't be at launch. It'll be whenever they get their first substantial discounts. I say this as someone who purchased a launch X370 board and R7 1800X... Unless you need 12+ cores and PCIe4 right now, it will pay to be lazy and slowly upgrade to X570.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

There's a cost to everything, and with the increased # of traces and motherboard layers required for PCIe4... it will command a premium for a while. Eventually, economies of scale will catch up and the premium will decrease over time.

The best time to purchase a new X570 motherboard and a 3950X won't be at launch. It'll be whenever they get their first substantial discounts. I say this as someone who purchased a launch X370 board and R7 1800X... Unless you need 12+ cores and PCIe4 right now, it will pay to be lazy and slowly upgrade to X570.

I’m thinking the chipset fan thing will likely get worked out later on too.

 

[Topweasel]

Man the 3950x really muddies the water. On one hand I am glad they announced it and my debate on whether the 16c chip would come out hit on the very thing Lisa mentioned. I always thought holding it back when you have a dramatic advantage was a bad move. I get holding back to keep increased margins and to have something in the tank if you are one upped. But the 3950x will not have more value in it's price than now while Intel has nothing that comes close to matching it. You have to come close to a 2k CPU on Intel's end to come close and it still doesn't have the clocks the 3950 has.

My problem was I wasn't sure when the 3950x was going to come out. So the 3900x was a good holdover to put in the new system build while I waited till probably next year to get the 16c chip for my primary computer. Now that I know it's coming this year. I really wonder if I should step down the 3800x for my ITX system, or still get the 3900x for the hell of it to say I have an awesome ITX system with 12c.

 

[Atari2600]

The best time to purchase a new X570 motherboard and a 3950X won't be at launch. It'll be whenever they get their first substantial discounts. I say this as someone who purchased a launch X370 board and R7 1800X... Unless you need 12+ cores and PCIe4 right now, it will pay to be lazy and slowly upgrade to X570.

To be honest, I probably wouldn't bother purchasing X570 at all. PCIe4 benefits are too marginal to justify at the moment and the next generation will like be much more refined and at better cost.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

To be honest, I probably wouldn't bother purchasing X570 at all. PCIe4 benefits are too marginal to justify at the moment and the next generation will like be much more refined and at better cost.

I’m starting to think the same thing.i have no need for nvme raid, I keep thinking the theoretical speeds will be great but the real world difference will be marginal. I’m certainly not going to do it even if I have the option to do it.
The faster video card lanes will be like every other time it’s been sped up, 1-3% performance increase. I have no need for 5+ high speed usb connected devices.
Only concern I have is will the older motherboards offer improved memory support.

 

[zinfamous]

Man the 3950x really muddies the water. On one hand I am glad they announced it and my debate on whether the 16c chip would come out hit on the very thing Lisa mentioned. I always thought holding it back when you have a dramatic advantage was a bad move. I get holding back to keep increased margins and to have something in the tank if you are one upped. But the 3950x will not have more value in it's price than now while Intel has nothing that comes close to matching it. You have to come close to a 2k CPU on Intel's end to come close and it still doesn't have the clocks the 3950 has.

My problem was I wasn't sure when the 3950x was going to come out. So the 3900x was a good holdover to put in the new system build while I waited till probably next year to get the 16c chip for my primary computer. Now that I know it's coming this year. I really wonder if I should step down the 3800x for my ITX system, or still get the 3900x for the hell of it to say I have an awesome ITX system with 12c.

I'm not you, but as you are already planning to replace a 3000 Zen within a year with another one, I would look at the 3700 or 3700X to be honest, maybe even the 3600 and put those savings into the 3950 or a better PCIe4 NvME SSD that will maybe be announced and released before the end of the year. At some point, the difference between those cores and clocks--and it looks like the non-X versions and especially that 3600 have that magic Zen boost ability to more or less match their more expensive X-brethren--is going to be negligible on your server/backup/whatever ITX that you have planned. And with that small case and limited cooling even with the AIO on what will be some pretty hot chips under boost, you probably want to go with efficiency, all the while saving money, and I mean really: is that 1-2% difference going to matter in the end?

Don't answer that.

 

[deathBOB]

Stop making AMD fanboy arguments....I am not talking about Intel/AMD, but about the simple content of..... chipset fan and its annoying 4cm noise on desktop
I dont have a problem of paying, I have problem with the content I pay for...we all know pci e-4 is just marketing on desktop and currently 600 EUR board from gigabyte is the price to get that nice to have feature
we should be innovating with less not more power and all that xxx W CPUs with hidden TDP rating nonsense for modern lies
Intel screwed it with so called 95W tdp rating 9900K, let's wait for AMD what reviews for performance, heat, power, platform power and cooling required show

Is the fan even going to run for most people? It's not like the average user has a bunch of stuff hooked up via pcie. It seems more like a way to deal with edge cases where someone loads up all the slots with drives or GPUs.