Speculation: Ryzen 3000 series

[Markfw]

BTW, related question, will a 2700x work at least to get into bios on the original BIOS on a 370 board ? I sold my 1800x before upgrading the bios.

Also, the threadripper, isn't that socket LGA ?

 

[ubern00b]

BTW, related question, will a 2700x work at least to get into bios on the original BIOS on a 370 board ? I sold my 1800x before upgrading the bios.

Also, the threadripper, isn't that socket LGA ?

What's the motherboard in question if it is indeed the "first" bios my initial guess would be an outright noway hosay as 370 was released for 1st gen Ryzen and definitely needed a Bios flash to support Ryzen+, only other option, borrow a first gen or take it into a shop who you know still stock 1st gen Ryzen

 

[IEC]

BTW, related question, will a 2700x work at least to get into bios on the original BIOS on a 370 board ? I sold my 1800x before upgrading the bios.

Also, the threadripper, isn't that socket LGA ?

Does the board support BIOS flashback (i.e. flashing without using a CPU?)

 

[Markfw]

Does the board support BIOS flashback (i.e. flashing without using a CPU?)

Its an X370 Taichi, and I want to use a 2700x to do it. I could try but its kind of a pain if there is no way it will work. Still waiting on bios for 3900x for X470 Taichi..... Not yet.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I see no indication that the X370 Taichi supports Flashback.

 

[Markfw]

Well, I want to try it, but the 2700x coming out of it is on an ASUS prime x470-pro, and no bios yet for 3900x. I want to flash that first. The 2700x and x370 can wait.

 

[Shivansps]

Waits for the first person to try a 3900x on an A320 board

Its not recomended, but the 2700X do run fine so in kinda intrigued. AS A TEST, pairing a $500 cpu with a $50 board A320 or not is a bad idea.

Actually A320 is fine, they can control wharever if it works or not... but try a 3900X/3950X on a B300/X300 or 400 board that has weak VRMs and try to OC and things may go boom. A320 has no worse VRMs than low end B and X 300 boards, and since you cant OC... I think OEMs are more worried about what may happen on B and X boards.

 

[Stryke1983]

Don't cut corners (on the mobo), get a rock-solid motherboard (that won't have short changed on VRMs etc) and the best value mid-range CPU.

Then in a few years time you go out and buy the best value mid-range CPU at that time and drop it in.

Hey presto, a big advance in performance for not a massive outlay.

Wouldn't any cpu coming out in a few years require a new motherboard though? I was under the impression that the current socket will only be compatible for one more generation after the one coming out shortly.

 

[Kenmitch]

Wouldn't any cpu coming out in a few years require a new motherboard though? I was under the impression that the current socket will only be compatible for one more generation after the one coming out shortly.

I think the jury is still out on Zen 3 being on AM4.

 

[cortexa99]

Hopefully my wish of a 4.4/4.5ghz all core 3600 will be likely then, sure 5ghz would be awesome but I'm somewhat realistic

yeah the author also said Zen2 OC headroom is not that big though, most stall at 4.6Ghz, a few 4.7-4.8, you have to win the silicon lottery to get 5, also voltage is not decent. We have to get realistic at last. (sounds like he has tested bunches of zen2)
maybe we could put a little more hope at PBO

 

[piesquared]

yeah the author also said Zen2 OC headroom is not that big though, most stall at 4.6Ghz, a few 4.7-4.8, you have to win the silicon lottery to get 5, also voltage is not decent. We have to get realistic at last. (sounds like he has tested bunches of zen2)
maybe we could put a little more hope at PBO

I don't think anyone really cares if it hits 5ghz or not. A couple hundred mhz is plenty.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I think the jury is still out on Zen 3 being on AM4.

I think AMD has said that Zen 3 will maintain compatibility and will be DDR4 and be next year (it was in one of the recent AMD interviews with AT), but that DDR5 will necessitate a new socket. They were I think maybe talking more with regards to servers, but it should hold true for other platforms as well. The real question is, do we see the new socket in 2021 or 2022?

Forrest Norrod: DDR5 is a different design. It will be on a different socket. We've already said Milan is a mid-2020 platform, and we've already said that's socket SP3, so DDR4 will still be used for Milan.

Milan is Zen 3 EPYC.

Chances are they'll do PCIe 5 at the same time they do DDR5. I think servers will move there in 2021, but I could see consumer lagging behind, since it won't need the PCIe 5 bandwidth nearly as much, and DDR5 prices will probably be high enough and supply limited enough (and DDR5 isn't going to fix GPU bandwidth issues of APUs - it'll help but it'd still need more, especially by then; I'd expect AMD to do large cache or a stack of HBM used as cache). Which, maybe they'd be able to do some hybrid design, where 2021 they could move to 4 channel DDR4 on consumer, but then in 2022 switchover to DDR5, and then do a half step towards PCIe 5 (they could implement it on just a couple of slots like one or two for SSD and then the closest x16 slot for GPU; and depending on if they're doing mGPU they can just use InifinityFabric GPU to GPU; or maybe they'll implement it CPU to GPU by then as well).

Which, maybe we'll see them do something else too. Like maybe on a new socket they decide to go one specific direction. Like maybe they decide all consumer CPUs will be APUs, or they split APUs and CPUs, where the latter gets a new socket but the former moves to being soldered to the board where maybe they include GDDR, and then the board is tailored to chips (where maybe they'd have single monolithic die with 4 cores and a small GPU, ones with single CPU die, single GPU die, and then a shared single I/O die, and then maybe one with 2 CPU dice, a CPU I/O chip, a GPU I/O chip, and then 2 GPU dice, or maybe a they have chips that a 1 CPU, 1 I/O, 2 GPU).

Which I bet the motherboard manufacturers wish they'd go soldered, so then they could make consumers have to buy a motherboard commensurate to the CPU (so the 3950X would be like minimum $250 board). Which there would be potential benefits to doing things that way, but it'd only really work if AMD was engineering it and then the partners dressing it up (kinda like what's done with video cards). But it'd be a way to segment the market.

 

[mopardude87]

Might want to head over to the builder's thread. The stock cooler for the 3700x should be the same one for the 3600 - matched to TDP of 65W. If you want more out of the chip, you're going to need a bigger HSF. Fortunately, there are some options out there that are reasonably-priced and perform quite well.

.

Yeah if i was into overclocking i wouldn't go with anything but like a NH-D15 but i have been out of the overclocking game since i overclocked a Q6600 back in 2008 lol. 25% overclock was easy. When i did overclock i always put on the biggest dang air cooler i could find. Kind of lost my extreme ways but i have been looking at things from a practical point now i guess. If stock works for stock clocks, why bother with a aftermarket unless your just not into the noise right?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Yeah if i was into overclocking i wouldn't go with anything but like a NH-D15 but i have been out of the overclocking game since i overclocked a Q6600 back in 2008 lol. 25% overclock was easy. When i did overclock i always put on the biggest dang air cooler i could find. Kind of lost my extreme ways but i have been looking at things from a practical point now i guess. If stock works for stock clocks, why bother with a aftermarket unless your just not into the noise right?

Depends on if you want to give PBO a shot. It counts as overclocking for warranty purposes (PBO voids the warranty), but it takes all the hassle of tuning voltage and clockspeed out of your hands. Anyone coming from the Intel camp will look at PBO and say, "Oh my motherboard did that by default on my 9900k" or some such. Really depends on what your expectations of what is or isn't "stock".

 

[Hans Gruber]

yeah the author also said Zen2 OC headroom is not that big though, most stall at 4.6Ghz, a few 4.7-4.8, you have to win the silicon lottery to get 5, also voltage is not decent. We have to get realistic at last. (sounds like he has tested bunches of zen2)
maybe we could put a little more hope at PBO

I am going to build a Zen 2 rig. However, I have a 240mm AIO Ryzen 1200 with a top of the line B350 MSI Carbon gaming motherboard right now. If the price of the 2700/2700x drops to the $150 range or less. Should I sit on the sidelines for a few months for Zen 2 and drop in a 2700x if they have fire sale prices?

My logic is that the Zen 2 parts bios and will mature within a few months and prices will drop around black friday. Better yields as the 7nm line improves.

I am a bit deflated seeing the prices for the x570 motherboards.

 

[mopardude87]

Really depends on what your expectations of what is or isn't "stock".

Stock to me is out of the box operation with absolutely no touching of the voltage or settings. When it comes to voltage and clocks,i like being in control honestly. My motherboard out of the box overvolted my 8700 non k to 1.35v. I had to drop it to 1.219v. I had timings on my cs15 2666mhz ram hitting cs19 which was fixed with me enabling XMP.

 

[Atari2600]

Wouldn't any cpu coming out in a few years require a new motherboard though? I was under the impression that the current socket will only be compatible for one more generation after the one coming out shortly.

Back in the day, AMD had simultaneous support for DDR2 and DDR3... and that was without the IO die essentially making that task much easier.

I anticipate the initial (first year or two) of DDR5 pricing to be grotesque from a consumer POV. Thus both manufacturers will have a vested interest in supporting DDR4 - this will mean AM4 and AM5 boards but that shouldn't be a problem.


Anyway, even if they don't - and worst case scenario is AM4 new products stop in 2020, you stick in (say) a 3600X now and in 2 years time what price do you think a 3950X will be?

Much cheaper than buying a new platform in 2 years time.

 

[lobz]

I don't think anyone really cares if it hits 5ghz or not. A couple hundred mhz is plenty.

I mean... if it's 3.5 GHz only but beats everything at its price point, is there ANY significance to the maximum clockspeed? I don't think so.

 

[ClockHound]

I mean... if it's 3.5 GHz only but beats everything at its price point, is there ANY significance to the maximum clockspeed?..

B-b-but... Clock-Peen. It's like e-peen, but faster.

 

[cortexa99]

I am going to build a Zen 2 rig. However, I have a 240mm AIO Ryzen 1200 with a top of the line B350 MSI Carbon gaming motherboard right now. If the price of the 2700/2700x drops to the $150 range or less. Should I sit on the sidelines for a few months for Zen 2 and drop in a 2700x if they have fire sale prices?

My logic is that the Zen 2 parts bios and will mature within a few months and prices will drop around black friday. Better yields as the 7nm line improves.

I am a bit deflated seeing the prices for the x570 motherboards.

You'd better wait for Zen2 review online before make a decision.
I don't have any Zen2 in hand so I can't give you suggestion, but IMO the diferences between Zen1&Zen+ is too little, just only if you need an 8C16T cpu the 2700 is a good one & worth waiting it price drop, but only if you want a best price/performance ratio multitask solution.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

. Which, maybe they'd be able to do some hybrid design, where 2021 they could move to 4 channel DDR4 on consumer

That will never happen. It adds a lot of cost to the cheapest SKUs, even when it's not being used. (Or, 4 channel exists for the consumer, it's called threadripper, and the cost of a lowest-end system possible is ~ twice of what you can do on AM4.)

but then in 2022 switchover to DDR5

Note that if they are still using chiplet designs (and why wouldn't they), there is no problem and no significant cost for them to sell the same CPU chiplets in both AM4 and AM5 CPUs, just with different IO dies. This allows them to do a gradual platform upgrade, moving early adopters and then mainstream to AM5 rapidly, while still selling upgrades to everyone still on AM4.

 

[moinmoin]

Yep, this approach makes a lot of sense from the value perspective. The sweet spots were 6c/12t and the low-end 8c/16t parts. With the advent of 2 chiplet parts, that is now changing. The 6c/12t sweet spot remains, but 8c/16t is no longer as good a value per-core.

Consider that I spent $499 on a Ryzen 7 1800X at launch, which at the time was a really good deal for a top tier 8c/16t CPU. That same $499 will get you a ultra high end 12c/24t part this time around, with IPC and frequency gains to boot.

Good point on both the 6c/12t and 12c/24t parts. Seems like AMD is playing this clever trying to move the focus away from the (for them more valuable) 8c chiplets toward the 6c chiplets.

 

[TheGiant]

B-b-but... Clock-Peen. It's like e-peen, but faster.

Not e-peen, cinebench!

 

[IntelUser2000]

Back in the day, AMD had simultaneous support for DDR2 and DDR3... and that was without the IO die essentially making that task much easier.

Skylake also supported DDR3. The motherboards were not common, but in mobile it needed DDR3 support because the advantages brought on by DDR3L and LPDDR3 were invaluable.

I was looking through LGA1151 boards and the cheaper ones were mostly DDR3.

(and DDR5 isn't going to fix GPU bandwidth issues of APUs - it'll help but it'd still need more, especially by then; I'd expect AMD to do large cache or a stack of HBM used as cache)

The problem is HBM will continue to be a high-end solution and be expensive. I assume HBM enabled iGPUs will be aimed at higher tier dGPUs and end up costing quite a bit more too. It's only logical.

The majority of the market requires running on DDR5.

 

[Shivansps]

Skylake also supported DDR3. The motherboards were not common, but in mobile it needed DDR3 support because the advantages brought on by DDR3L and LPDDR3 were invaluable.

I was looking through LGA1151 boards and the cheaper ones were mostly DDR3.

You can run a 9900K on DDR3 today if you want, Gigabyte launched last year a H310 board with DDR3.