Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

[uzzi38]

All die sizes are within 5mm^2. The poster here has been right on some things in the past afaik, and to his credit was the first to saying 505mm^2 for Navi21, which other people have backed up. Even still though, take the following with a pich of salt.

Navi21 - 505mm^2

Navi22 - 340mm^2

Navi23 - 240mm^2

Source is the following post: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1588075782.A.C1E.html

 

[Panino Manino]

AMD technologies (FidelityFX) are finally starting to appear on consoles (both SeX and PS5). Can we then hope to see a more widespread use on PC games?

 

[Mopetar]

Is there anything that's actually out? I thought that the expectation was that we wouldn't see their DLSS-like solution until closer to the end of the year or even next year.

 

[moinmoin]

Is there anything that's actually out?

FidelityFX is a whole set of different open source graphics effects and tools, the upcoming "Super Resolution" is just one of them.

 

[Leeea]

AMD technologies (FidelityFX) are finally starting to appear on consoles (both SeX and PS5). Can we then hope to see a more widespread use on PC games?

Not this year.

Maybe very few titles next year, if we are lucky.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Some additional news on the RDNA 2 front with regard to the 6600XT series. Wonder how close or far we are for a release on these things, just getting more inventory out there alone would be great:

AMD Radeon RX 6600 XT, 6600 to Feature Navi 23 Chip With up to 2048 Stream Processors

AMD is preparing to round-out its RX 6000 series lineup with the upcoming RX 6600 XT and RX 6600, introducing true midrange GPUs to their latest generation RDNA2 architecture. According to recent leaks, both graphics cards should feature AMD's Navi 23 chip, another full chip design, instead of...

www.techpowerup.com

Wonder where the performance of these chips will land? Basically on top of the 5700XT or are we looking at an improvement (~30% performance between the 5700XT and the 6700XT so not a lot of room for the 6600XT to come in faster).

Pricing as well. I can see the 6600XT coming in at $399 or $379, a solid "Why the hell didn't I just buy the 5700XT two years ago" price. Ideally these things would be down around the $300 or less pricepoint, but I just don't see that happening these days...

 

[Mopetar]

Some additional news on the RDNA 2 front with regard to the 6600XT series. Wonder how close or far we are for a release on these things, just getting more inventory out there alone would be great:

Well Nvidia just announced their 3050 Ti and 3050 mobile parts which use the GA107 die. Based on the other launch dates this generation, AMD has been somewhere between one to four months behind (depending on how you want to stack the products up) Nvidia, so if I had to guess we'll be seeing Navi 23 somewhere between mid-June and mid-August.

Lisa Su has the keynote at Computex in early June so I'd expect an announcement regarding it then.

 

[scineram]

First where is the 6700?

Second I think AMD should focus on the gayming laptop market and proper supply there. The market where they have been most behind and still are. Thus more desktop SKU should wait for a while. Let supply catch up first.

 

[Timorous]

Some additional news on the RDNA 2 front with regard to the 6600XT series. Wonder how close or far we are for a release on these things, just getting more inventory out there alone would be great:

AMD Radeon RX 6600 XT, 6600 to Feature Navi 23 Chip With up to 2048 Stream Processors

AMD is preparing to round-out its RX 6000 series lineup with the upcoming RX 6600 XT and RX 6600, introducing true midrange GPUs to their latest generation RDNA2 architecture. According to recent leaks, both graphics cards should feature AMD's Navi 23 chip, another full chip design, instead of...

www.techpowerup.com

Wonder where the performance of these chips will land? Basically on top of the 5700XT or are we looking at an improvement (~30% performance between the 5700XT and the 6700XT so not a lot of room for the 6600XT to come in faster).

Pricing as well. I can see the 6600XT coming in at $399 or $379, a solid "Why the hell didn't I just buy the 5700XT two years ago" price. Ideally these things would be down around the $300 or less pricepoint, but I just don't see that happening these days...

$399 is probably the cheapest it will be. Same size die (roughly) as N10. Performance wise I would expect it to be faster than N10 @ 1080p, about even at 1440p and behind at 4k. I think the 6600XT will top out at 5700XT + 10%. The 6600 I am less sure of, maybe a few % behind the 5700XT. This is assuming around 2.5Ghz clockspeeds for thr 6600XT.

 

[Bigos]

AMD Beige Goby - Navi24?

[PATCH 00/49] Initial Beige Goby Support

Seems to have only 16MB of Infinity Cache:

+ {
+ /* L3 Data Cache per GPU */
+ .cache_size = 16*1024,
+ .cache_level = 3,
+ .flags = (CRAT_CACHE_FLAGS_ENABLED |
+ CRAT_CACHE_FLAGS_DATA_CACHE |
+ CRAT_CACHE_FLAGS_SIMD_CACHE),
+ .num_cu_shared = 8,
+ },

[PATCH 18/49] drm/amdkfd: support beige_goby KFD

Might not have hardware video encoders (or the support will be enabled later):

- adev->vcn.num_enc_rings = 2;
+ if (adev->asic_type == CHIP_BEIGE_GOBY)
+ adev->vcn.num_enc_rings = 0;
+ else
+ adev->vcn.num_enc_rings = 2;

[PATCH 24/49] drm/amdgpu: Enable VCN for Beige Goby

Contains a newer Display Core version, 3.03 vs 3.02:

if (ASICREV_IS_DIMGREY_CAVEFISH_P(asic_id.hw_internal_rev))
dc_version = DCN_VERSION_3_02;
+ if (ASICREV_IS_BEIGE_GOBY_P(asic_id.hw_internal_rev))
+ dc_version = DCN_VERSION_3_03;

[PATCH 42/49] drm/amd/display: Initial DC support for Beige Goby

 

[Glo.]

$399 is probably the cheapest it will be. Same size die (roughly) as N10. Performance wise I would expect it to be faster than N10 @ 1080p, about even at 1440p and behind at 4k. I think the 6600XT will top out at 5700XT + 10%. The 6600 I am less sure of, maybe a few % behind the 5700XT. This is assuming around 2.5Ghz clockspeeds for thr 6600XT.

This is faster RTX 3060 competitor, which means it won't be more expensive than that GPU, especially with less VRAM.

 

[Mopetar]

Unless the mining boom subsides and the supply is good enough to satisfy the demand, it really doesn't matter what MSRP is because most cards will wind up getting scalped. I wouldn't be surprised to see prices around $600 and possibly more depending on the hash rate, which should be similar to the 6700XT.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Confirmed specs for RX 6600(28 CUs, 1792 SPs, 112 TMUs, 32 ROPs, 128bit GDDR6) and RX 6600XT(32 CU, 2048 SPs, 128 TMUs, 32 ROPs, 128bit GDDR6 16GHz)
videocardz

RX 6600XT has base clockspeed of 1692Mhz and boost is 2684Mhz based on the screenshot!
This doesn't look like It will have a low TBP.

 

[Ajay]

Unless the mining boom subsides and the supply is good enough to satisfy the demand, it really doesn't matter what MSRP is because most cards will wind up getting scalped. I wouldn't be surprised to see prices around $600 and possibly more depending on the hash rate, which should be similar to the 6700XT.

My understanding is that we'll be seeing more supply from AMD for the second half of this year. So, maybe prices will come down a bit

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I suspect Navi 24 is going to be a straight up 1/2 Navi 23 size part:

14 CU / 1024 SP 16 CU/1024 SP
16mb IC
64-bit memory (maybe 96)
4/6 Gigs of GDDR6 ram (GDDR5 is actually getting tougher to source as its phased out).
Ray Tracing support (just because it'd be more work to take it out at this point).

XT part will likely be clocked to the gills and require a 6 pin, while non-XT part will be sub 75w and really feed the low end market. Whatever AMD's next APU option is will come in below that and shore up the IGP market.

Looks like a pretty solid top to bottom strategy, now if only the prices were in the right place.

 

[SPBHM]

I'm wondering if the Navi 24 part can beat the RX 470? I guess?
it would be a great entry level gaming card if it can get there, and hopefully it's awful for mining

64bits is not inspiring, but if the clock is high enough and the small cache effective it can work out.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I'm wondering if the Navi 24 part can beat the RX 470? I guess?
it would be a great entry level gaming card if it can get there, and hopefully it's awful for mining

64bits is not inspiring, but if the clock is high enough and the small cache effective it can work out.

- My guess is that it's going to end up closer to a 1660 or 1070 class card at 1080p on account of it being clocked to the moon.

The 5500XT was already in 570 territory, and this is basically going to be a 5500xt with a 30-40% higher clock speed.

 

[Glo.]

So the 6500 series are based on Navi 23 GPU die, after all, OR - there is no 6500 series, at all.

 

[Shivansps]

So the 6500 series are based on Navi 23 GPU die, after all, OR - there is no 6500 series, at all.

Likely it outclasses the RX5500XT so badly that it cant be named RX6500, so they add a +100 offset to it so they can increase MSRP in peace.

- My guess is that it's going to end up closer to a 1660 or 1070 class card at 1080p on account of it being clocked to the moon.

The 5500XT was already in 570 territory, and this is basically going to be a 5500xt with a 30-40% higher clock speed.

5500XT 8GB > RX580 8GB > RX5500XT 4GB > RX 570 8GB

 

[GodisanAtheist]

5500XT 8GB > RX580 8GB > RX5500XT 4GB > RX 570 8GB

- Maybe I'm being too conservative. At 1080P we might have the full N24 coming in closer to the 2060/5600xt performance numbers rather than 1660 numbers.

Looking at the TPU 1080p chart, you have
N21
-25%
N22
-25%
(hypothetical N23 performance) ~5700XT Performance
-25%
(hypothetical N24 performance) ~2060 to 1660S performance

 

[Glo.]

- Maybe I'm being too conservative. At 1080P we might have the full N24 coming in closer to the 2060/5600xt performance numbers rather than 1660 numbers.

Looking at the TPU 1080p chart, you have
N21
-25%
N22
-25%
(hypothetical N23 performance) ~5700XT Performance
-25%
(hypothetical N24 performance) ~2060 to 1660S performance

1024 ALU/64 bit GPU closer to RTX 2060?

No. Ain't happening. 1024 ALU/64 BIt GPU will be closer to 1536 ALU RDNA1 GPU(Navi 14) than to RTX 2060.

 

[Glo.]

Likely it outclasses the RX5500XT so badly that it cant be named RX6500, so they add a +100 offset to it so they can increase MSRP in peace.

N23 full die should be between RTX 2070 Super and 2080 in performance.

The only logical assumption one would have is that 6500 XT will be offered in 24 CU/96 bit configuration.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

- Maybe I'm being too conservative. At 1080P we might have the full N24 coming in closer to the 2060/5600xt performance numbers rather than 1660 numbers.

N24 has 16CU and somewhere between 2450-2684Mhz which adds to 5-5.5 TFLOPs.
RX 5500XT has 22CU and 1845Mhz boost which adds to 5.2 TFLOPs.
In TPU 1080p graph RX 5600XT is 47% faster than RX 5500XT.
There is simply no way N24 will perform even close to 2060/5600xt when Its specs are on the level of RX 5500XT.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

N24 has 16CU and somewhere between 2450-2684Mhz which adds to 5-5.5 TFLOPs.
RX 5500XT has 22CU and 1845Mhz boost which adds to 5.2 TFLOPs.
In TPU 1080p graph RX 5600XT is 47% faster than RX 5500XT.
There is simply no way N24 will perform even close to 2060/5600xt when Its specs are on the level of RX 5500XT.

- Good points. For some reason my brain worked out Navi 14 having 16/14 CUs, not the 24/22 it actually had.

Yeah, looks like N24 will land just about right on top of the 5500XT, which is weird because that will leave an absolutely massive gap for AMD between their (theoretical) $400 parts and their $200 parts.

I can't imagine AMD is going to have a lot of N23 dies to cut down to fill the lower price tiers...

 

[Gideon]

Igor spills some beans on 6600XT and 6600.

Overall it's quite a nice chip, and this is expected due to unifying stuff with laptops, but still unfortunate that it only has PCIe 4.0 x8. This will seriously diminish it's sale for upgrades or budget builds

... well the latter at least won't be a proble with current GPU price climate as there are no budget builds, so there's that.

 

[Glo.]

It appears that Navi 23 was designed as 1:1 technological replacement for... Navi 14.