Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

[uzzi38]

All die sizes are within 5mm^2. The poster here has been right on some things in the past afaik, and to his credit was the first to saying 505mm^2 for Navi21, which other people have backed up. Even still though, take the following with a pich of salt.

Navi21 - 505mm^2

Navi22 - 340mm^2

Navi23 - 240mm^2

Source is the following post: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1588075782.A.C1E.html

 

[AtenRa]

Those CPU bottleneck results were available way earlier in one other site, gamegpu.ru

Look at those bottlenecks when a small CPU like R5 1400 is used in some of the latest games.

Assassin's Creed Valhalla(2020) тест GPU/CPU | Action / FPS / TPS | Тест GPU

Сыграйте за викинга по имени Эйвор, которого с самого детства готовили стать бесстрашным воином. Вам предст

gamegpu.com

Watch Dogs Legion(2020) тест GPU/CPU | Action / FPS / TPS | Тест GPU

Повсеместное наблюдение, военные компании на страже порядка, организованная преступность. . . С нас хватит!

gamegpu.com

 

[Mopetar]

Those are some extensive testing results. There are even older Intel 8-core chips like the 5960X in there that should give us an idea of what the issue is. Even just comparing the Ryzen 1800X against the 1600X shows how core count can factor in to a degree.

 

[AtenRa]

CPU Bottleneck even with RT and DLSS enabled in Watch Dogs Legion ?? Didnt expect that

 

[SPBHM]

I seem to remember higher software overhead being a thing for Nvidia on DX12 since day 1 all those years ago no? with Maxwell, I thought they would have improved more by now... oh well..

an interesting advantage for AMD, but I'm not sure of the real world effect given how expensive the GPUs are you would think people would be pairing them with at least a fast 8c/16 CPU most of the time,

 

[Leeea]

an interesting advantage for AMD, but I'm not sure of the real world effect given how expensive the GPUs are you would think people would be pairing them with at least a fast 8c/16 CPU most of the time,

Lets say a person is going to upgrade their computer for gaming this generation. I feel this was a common scenario with many people skipping the uncompelling last generation of hardware.

Would said person be better off splitting their money between a new cpu, mainboard, ram + gpu, or just sinking all of into a AMD gpu?

I would argue in nearly all cases people looking to upgrade this generation would be better off sinking all of the money into an AMD gpu.

 

[Mopetar]

With the market the way it is, you have to sink all of your money into any GPU, even one from two generations ago. A 1080 Ti is being listed for $1,400 on Newegg. Someone should have told all of the people getting into gold and silver that the real precious metal(loid) was actually silicon in GPU form, which is at present referred to by its Latin name, Unobtainium.

 

[Leeea]

With the market the way it is, you have to sink all of your money into any GPU, even one from two generations ago. A 1080 Ti is being listed for $1,400 on Newegg. Someone should have told all of the people getting into gold and silver that the real precious metal(loid) was actually silicon in GPU form, which is at present referred to by its Latin name, Unobtainium.

That is an excellent point!

My post is predicated on the idea that a card can be obtained at MSRP. Which is somewhat delusional in this market.

 

[beginner99]

Huge CPU bottlenecks with NVIDIA GPUs when paired with low end CPUs
In some situations the combination of Ryzen 1600X + RX5600XT is faster than the combination of Ryzen 2600X + RTX3090 , loco

Note to those not having watched the video: it applies only to DX12/Vulcan. DX11 wasn't tested.

It's not all that surpsring and why I did not buy into Zen/Zen+. The gaming performance of these CPUs never was very good and an intel CPU was recommended for high frequency gaming even after Zen+/2600x release. Still kind of surprsing just how big the bottleneck is and that AMD is less impacted. But again just less impacted, even for AMD jumping from a 2600x to 3600x on a 5700xt results in a huge performance increase. So again just shows how big a step Zen2 really was for gaming!

 

[exquisitechar]

In a few months FarCry 6 and Resident Evil : Village are expected to be released , both will support RT and will be optimized for AMD RT architecture.
We can see how RDNA2 will perform when the game is not written for RTX only.

We already have AMD sponsored games with RT like The Riftbreaker, and Nvidia still has quite a lead there. Don't expect any miracles, the RT performance clearly just isn't there with RDNA2.

 

[AtenRa]

We already have AMD sponsored games with RT like The Riftbreaker, and Nvidia still has quite a lead there. Don't expect any miracles, the RT performance clearly just isn't there with RDNA2.

Im not expecting RDNA2 to be faster, but Im expecting RDNA2 cards to perform much better in those titles vs the RTX optimized we have now.
Alos, The Riftbraker hasent been released yet only a demo is available.

 

[.vodka]

2080S?

With all the perf/clk improvements RDNA2 has (+21%), plus that ridiculous frequency (~2850MHz gfx clk) the 6700XT should probably be at ~2080Ti/3070 level at 1080p, but probably not quite make it at 1440p. Still closer to them than the 2080S I guess.

It all comes down to how much IC AMD is going to use on Navi22. AMD themselves provided the cache hit rates for 128, 96, 64, 48, 32MB etc of cache in one of their slides. 96MB should make for a quite solid 1440p card, 64MB would be a bit limited, maybe, for that resolution considering there's a 192 bit bus behind that cache.

Considering there's a few less memory controllers apart from having half the resources of Navi21 (~510mm²), I'd guess they didn't skimp on the ~30mm² it'd require to implement the extra 32MB to do 96MB. Navi10 is ~250mm², Navi22 should be around that die size after all the cutting down.

It'd be ridiculous to see a little 250mm² die mostly match up against a 754mm² x02 monster and the typical ~400mm² X04 die, lol

If they go for 96MB cache, it should be an excellent high refresh rate 1080p card that can comfortably do not quite as high refresh rate 1440p gaming.

64MB, at 1440p it'd probably behave like Navi21 does at 4k, it loses some of its punch, but it can still do its thing.

AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT ray tracing performance has been leaked - VideoCardz.com

AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT faster than GeForce RTX 3070 without raytracing It looks like Wccftech got their hands on RX 6700 XT performance number, including ray tracing. New performance figures have been shared by Wccftech day. The site has provided information on RX 6700 XT framerates in 1440p...

videocardz.com

That was a good prediction! So, it actually turned out to be a middle sized 335mm² chip mostly matching the 3070/ 754mm² 2080Ti in rasterization, lol. Somewhat bigger than expected.

Should be a complete match or faster at 1080p.

96MB IC too. Great stuff. All recent AMD architectures' sweet spot keeps being ~40CU.

 

[Shmee]

Why not have the 6800 included as well?

 

[Mopetar]

Impressive results if it's true. I mean at this point I'd say buy one even if the results aren't actually that good because even if you don't want to keep it, it wouldn't be a problem to sell it. I'm curious what some of the AIB models might be able to pull off.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

The question is If these results are true and If SAM was active on RX 6700XT.

 

[menhera]

The benchmark is clearly provided by AMD. Compare the numbers to the ones from AMD's slide announced in March 3 and you'll see they're equal. https://www.anandtech.com/Gallery/Album/7936#14

Considering SAM is enabled, the 6700 XT should be between 3060 Ti and 3070.

 

[.vodka]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1370565322651004931

AotS

Crazy_1080p
RX 6700 XT - 9300
RX 5700 XT - 7400

Crazy_1440p
RX 6700 XT - 8800
RX 5700 XT - 6600

Crazy_4K
RX 6700 XT - 7600
RX 5700 XT - 5600

1080p, 25.7% faster
1440p, 33.3% faster
4k, 35.7% faster

How do the 3060Ti and 3070 score in this game?

 

[fleshconsumed]

Can't help but think a) that there is almost no price differentiation in rdna2 lineup $480 6700XT, $580 6800, and $650 6800XT, honestly, if all were available at MSRP I'd just go with 6800XT and b) that rdna3 chiplet architecture would be major leap forward in raw performance and performance/dollar, if crypto craze dies down by the time of rdna3 release it'll be a much much better value for the dollar if one can wait that long.

Despite all of that I wouldn't mind getting 6700XT or 6800/6800XT for that matter, but we all know that's practically impossible. I do have Microcenter by me but I'm not sure if I feel like standing for 5 hours in line before they open this Thursday hoping they'll have enough launch day stock to get one. Maybe?

 

[Mopetar]

Can't help but think a) that there is almost no price differentiation in rdna2 lineup $480 6700XT, $580 6800, and $650 6800XT, honestly, if all were available at MSRP I'd just go with 6800XT

Well most of the lineup still hasn't been release yet and $100 gaps aren't unusual at the higher end and AIB models usually fill in the gaps by offering factory overclocks and better cooling solutions for an extra $30 - $80 over the reference model.

Of course we're not in anything remotely resembling normality at the moment. I think that the 6700 XT probably should have been priced lower, but if it essentially matches the 3070 it's not a bad value relative to that. Of course the real value for dollar card right now is the 3060 Ti but you can't get it at the $400 MSRP so it's kind of pointless to complain too much. There will probably be a Navi 22 card close to $400 with similar performance, but we're just not there yet.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

The latest TechPowerUp GPU-Z v2.38.0(Link) adds support for new and upcoming GPUs, including AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT, RX 6700, RX 6600 XT, RX 6600.
RX 6700 (XT) is most likely based on N22.
RX 6600 (XT) is most likely based on N23.
I don't believe, there will be a third SKU based on N22.
I think the latest possible date for N23 to be released will be at Computex 2021 which is 79 days away.

 

[Mopetar]

I suppose it certainly would be possible for AMD to sell a 6600(XT) part that's actually a Navi 22 die with more hardware disabled, akin to how Nvidia has occasionally used a larger die in the same way as was the case with some later models of the 1060 which used a massively cut down GP104 die.

The other alternative is that the parts that really need to be cut down wind up going into a limited number OEM part of some sort.

 

[Glo.]

The latest TechPowerUp GPU-Z v2.38.0(Link) adds support for new and upcoming GPUs, including AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT, RX 6700, RX 6600 XT, RX 6600.
RX 6700 (XT) is most likely based on N22.
RX 6600 (XT) is most likely based on N23.
I don't believe, there will be a third SKU based on N22.
I think the latest possible date for N23 to be released will be at Computex 2021 which is 79 days away.

6600 XT is 100% guaranteed based on Navi 22, because it has 12 GB VRAM, according to EEC registration.

6600 - that is a different story.

 

[linkgoron]

I suppose it certainly would be possible for AMD to sell a 6600(XT) part that's actually a Navi 22 die with more hardware disabled, akin to how Nvidia has occasionally used a larger die in the same way as was the case with some later models of the 1060 which used a massively cut down GP104 die.

5700/5600 series were Navi 10 and 5500/5300 were Navi 14, so it's not unheard of from AMD as well.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

6600 XT is 100% guaranteed based on Navi 22, because it has 12 GB VRAM, according to EEC registration.

6600 - that is a different story.

If 6600XT has 12GB then 6700 will have the same amount. Then 6700 could have 36CU with lower clocks and 6600XT only 32CU.
It's still surprising considering N23 should have 32CU, only with less IC, narrower bus width and fewer ROPs.
I personally don't understand the need for N22 based RX 6600XT when It won't be much faster than RX 5700XT while being based on a lot bigger chip.

 

[Glo.]

If 6600XT has 12GB then 6700 will have the same amount. Then 6700 could have 36CU with lower clocks and 6600XT only 32CU.
It's still surprising considering N23 should have 32CU, only with less IC, narrower bus width and fewer ROPs.
I personally don't understand the need for N22 based RX 6600XT when It won't be much faster than RX 5700XT while being based on a lot bigger chip.

Currently based on rumors and widely available information:

RX 6700 XT high power variant with 12 GB VRAM,
RX 6700 XT low power variant with 12 GB VRAM,
RX 6700 non-XT with 6 GB VRAM for Asrock, and 12 GB version for Asus
6600 XT 12 GB

Unfathomable.

 

[Mopetar]

It's stupid to have a high-power and low-power variant of the same model without making significant changes to the product name. If they just called the lower power variant the 6700 it would be fine, but the confusion that Nvidia created when they did this with the 1060 was generally viewed as a bad move on their part and I would hate to see AMD repeat it.

Also, it would be kind of strange for AMD to release a Navi 22 part with 6 GB unless it's the bottom tier part. I don't know what they'd price such a thing, but it creates a weird situation where the 3060 which theoretically has an MSRP of $330 (I know that's no realistic since there's no reference model and very few of the AIB models even retail close to that price) would have more VRAM than an AMD card which likely has a price closer to $400 than it does $330.

Even if such a cut down card is being billed as more of an 1080p top performer as opposed to a 1440p card, I'd still be a little leery about buying something in 2021 with less than 8 GB, particularly if I were intending to keep it for a long time.