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Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

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MrTeal

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 2003
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Of course the axial "blower" has to dissipate quite a lot of air and heat. The card would probably burn out, at least throttle very hard of one functioning fan only. Best bet is that at least 40% heat is going out from the back. Would be easy enough to stop one fan at a time and observe throttling/ high temps.
What on earth are you basing that on? A 60/40 split is extremely unlikely given how much more air the back fan would move at similar power and noise levels. It wouldn't be as simple as stopping one fan and measuring GPU temperature, as that is not going to be the sole source of heat on the card. That, and even if you stop the front fan you might very well end up with a situation where the die remains cool connected to the back fin array with massive heatpipes, but the VRMs that rely on the front fan for cooling begin to overheat and throttle. If you really want to see how much each fan is exhausting in normal conditions, duct both IO and back exhaust through air velocity meters to measure CFM, and monitor intake and output temperatures to calculate the actual heat dissipated.
 
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Hitman928

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2012
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Midwayman

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Jan 28, 2000
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TBH Sony could be saying the target hasn't changed, and the original report could just be that there will be a shortfall. They didn't refute any of the production issues.
 

A///

Senior member
Feb 24, 2017
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Biggest news out of that is how they are using air freight. That is crazy expensive atm and even more proof they are committing to having as many available in 2020.
Yeah, wasn't that reported a month ago? I didn't think anything of it but I don't subscribe to Freight Life myself.
 

Hitman928

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2012
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TBH Sony could be saying the target hasn't changed, and the original report could just be that there will be a shortfall. They didn't refute any of the production issues.
This is what Sony said:

The information provided by Bloomberg is false
We have not changed the production number for PlayStation 5
How is that not refuting the rumor of production issues?
 
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EXCellR8

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Sep 1, 2010
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blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
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Yeah, wasn't that reported a month ago? I didn't think anything of it but I don't subscribe to Freight Life myself.
Maybe, I missed it. I thought there was something about how much that cost them back in the PS3 or PS4 days and they were committed to not doing that again. It's worse now that there are so few commercial flights to jam the bellies full on, I just brought in a pallet (~350 kg) and the surcharge was $5.80 per KG. Ouch. China is like $2 atm, which is way better but still bites when adding that to your BoM vs the comparatively free nature of 45' high cubes.
 

kurosaki

Member
Feb 7, 2019
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What on earth are you basing that on? A 60/40 split is extremely unlikely given how much more air the back fan would move at similar power and noise levels. It wouldn't be as simple as stopping one fan and measuring GPU temperature, as that is not going to be the sole source of heat on the card. That, and even if you stop the front fan you might very well end up with a situation where the die remains cool connected to the back fin array with massive heatpipes, but the VRMs that rely on the front fan for cooling begin to overheat and throttle. If you really want to see how much each fan is exhausting in normal conditions, duct both IO and back exhaust through air velocity meters to measure CFM, and monitor intake and output temperatures to calculate the actual heat dissipated.
Haha!
I think we both can agree on that the cards ain't gonna survive on one fan only. To make the design depend on one fan to take 80% of the total needed dissipation isn't sound either. Makes for a too loud of a card. The best offload sound wise would be for the both fans to dissipate heat evenly. That's the dream scenario. My guess is that the back fan isn't doing quite as much as the "front"fan, to dissipate heat from the fins, but does a great job not circulating heat inside the case. It would just be asinine to put a fan on that realestate if it stood for 30% total cooling capacity or less.
 

MrTeal

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 2003
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Haha!
I think we both can agree on that the cards ain't gonna survive on one fan only. To make the design depend on one fan to take 80% of the total needed dissipation isn't sound either. Makes for a too loud of a card. The best offload sound wise would be for the both fans to dissipate heat evenly. That's the dream scenario. My guess is that the back fan isn't doing quite as much as the "front"fan, to dissipate heat from the fins, but does a great job not circulating heat inside the case. It would just be asinine to put a fan on that realestate if it stood for 30% total cooling capacity or less.
Not at all, it can provide necessary cooling even if it's not moving a large portion of the heat. There's a lot of components in that front part of the card that require cooling, like the VRMs, inductors and RAM. Using a full coverage plate that ties into the main cooler is one way, but another is just to run air over them. An extreme example of something like this is cooling a card using something like a Kraken G10 bracket or one of the factory hybrid coolers. The vast majority of the cooling there is provided by the water cooling radiator, but the board still needs active airflow.

I disagree that the best arrangement soundwise is to have both fans dissipate heat evenly. Take a look at the cooler.
1600207975168.png
The front fins are tied into the vapour chamber, but the stack height is much smaller than the rear fan. Even if the airflow wasn't obstructed by the PCB, you would need greater airflow to provide the same cooling through the front fin array, which means more RPM and thus more noise. The airflow is obstructed by the PCB and the shroud though, and has to take a hard 90 and travel in that thin stack between the fan and the board, along all the high z-height components, and the up and around the HDMI ports and out the back. If you tried to provide equal cooling, the exhaust air will be a loud, high velocity turbulent mess and the fan will be spinning like a banshee trying to force it all through while the back fan spins slow and easy. The best compromise for low acoustics would be to have both fans run in a way that produces the same amount of noise, as long as thermal constraints on all the subsystems are met.

Really, this is an example of the entire reason people water cool and use big tower heatsinks on their CPUs. You take the high density heat and rather than try and deal with it in a compromised location, you use a high efficiency transport to bring it somewhere where you can use a nice big lowish density fin stack and a big fan to send low velocity laminar airflow through it. Low noise, good cooling.

So, back on track, AMD doesn't need a shrouded rear-exhaust card with axial fans, and I'm not really sure it's in their best interests to hire you as their thermal design engineering lead. :p
 

A///

Senior member
Feb 24, 2017
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Jason has always been a whiny person.

Maybe, I missed it. I thought there was something about how much that cost them back in the PS3 or PS4 days and they were committed to not doing that again. It's worse now that there are so few commercial flights to jam the bellies full on, I just brought in a pallet (~350 kg) and the surcharge was $5.80 per KG. Ouch. China is like $2 atm, which is way better but still bites when adding that to your BoM vs the comparatively free nature of 45' high cubes.
Yeah. TBH, you either eat the loss now or forever delay or seek shipment via other methods that isn't as fast.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
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www.teamjuchems.com
Jason has always been a whiny person.


Yeah. TBH, you either eat the loss now or forever delay or seek shipment via other methods that isn't as fast.
I know man. I just wrote the check for $3,600 so I could have product now - not in mid November. It was worth it.

Plus that container has a duplicate of what I just had flown over, so I was able to actually get more stock total by mid November too.

Opportunity costs everywhere.
 

swilli89

Golden Member
Mar 23, 2010
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Been looking over things and I am now super curious as to the die size big Navi is going to come in at. I think AMD actually built a chip larger than 500mm2 then it will match the 3080. Something around 22-24 billion xstors.
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
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This is what Sony said:

The information provided by Bloomberg is false
We have not changed the production number for PlayStation 5
How is that not refuting the rumor of production issues?
They only confirmed they still plan on making 15 million this fiscal year. Not-
  • Where they are according to plan
  • If there have been production issues
  • How they intend to make up the shortfall if it exists
Just there are many ways that statement could be true, but still hiding info. What companies don't say is often as important as what they do. Still I may just be reading too much into it.
 

A///

Senior member
Feb 24, 2017
771
516
106
I know man. I just wrote the check for $3,600 so I could have product now - not in mid November. It was worth it.

Plus that container has a duplicate of what I just had flown over, so I was able to actually get more stock total by mid November too.

Opportunity costs everywhere.
If you don't mind me asking, are you a small biz retailer?
 

Hitman928

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2012
2,777
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They only confirmed they still plan on making 15 million this fiscal year. Not-
  • Where they are according to plan
  • If there have been production issues
  • How they intend to make up the shortfall if it exists
Just there are many ways that statement could be true, but still hiding info. What companies don't say is often as important as what they do. Still I may just be reading too much into it.
As far as I am aware, Sony has not given any production numbers for PS5, the 15 million units number came strictly form this rumor. Let's break it down.

What the rumor claimed:
After more than doubling their initial production number to 15M units, as they started to try to produce PS5's in volume, they discovered that as many as half of the SOCs couldn't meet spec or were defective and so they had to then reduce the 15M units down to 11M units by the end of March 2021.

What Sony said:
This rumor is false and we have not changed production numbers for the PS5 after starting volume production.

So where in that is the wiggle room to say Sony is hiding this big production problem secret? The way I see it, either the rumor was fake or Sony is flat out lying. You can choose the believe the latter but given the absurd claims of the rumor, I'm inclined to believe Sony.
 
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