Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

[blckgrffn]

I feel like the TBP at 160w is just to ensure that it has a the one 8 pin in all of its incarnations. Was it the RX480 that tried to squeak it in just under with not so great outcomes? Or the 470?

I wonder if we won’t see that it’s pretty consistently a lower power card than it’s TBP might lead us to believe vs the other RDNA2 cards.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

With these clocks?
Just look at RX 6700XT. High clocks killed the efficiency of the card, and this won't be any different.

 

[KompuKare]

Looks like another very disappointing release.
2 years after the 5700 XT launched at $399, we get the 6600 XT launching with at most the performance at almost the same price?

The only thing which has advanced is the TDP but even that is disappointing. If they've now revised the W6600 specs to be 130W then enterin everything must be clocked past the clock/watts sweet point.

So much for them later releasing a Navi23 based 6500 XT with only PCIe power.

 

[AtenRa]

It is interesting that NVidia GA106 found on the RTX3060 with 13,250 Transistors and a die size of 276mm2 fabed at 8nm Samsung has higher density vs the AMD Navi 23 on the RX6600XT with 11,060 transistors and a die size of only 237nm fabed at TSMC 7nm.

From an mArch perspective, this round AMD can do more with less transistors at least for Raster workloads and it is more efficient.

Prices are bad for all GPUs from both AMD and NVIDIA, so this 6600XT at $380 is not an exception. They both know they will sell all they produce so no point of pricing lower at this point.

 

[Abwx]

Looks like another very disappointing release.
2 years after the 5700 XT launched at $399, we get the 6600 XT launching with at most the performance at almost the same price?

Well...
Is the 5700XT 40% faster than the 5700 ?

Radeon RX 6600 XT vorgestellt: Mehr Leistung als RX 5700 XT und RTX 3060 für 379 USD

RDNA 2 wird etwas günstiger: AMD kündigt die Radeon RX 6600 XT an, die für 379 USD mehr Rasterizer-Leistung als die RTX 3060 bieten soll.

www.computerbase.de

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

The only thing which has advanced is the TDP but even that is disappointing. If they've now revised the W6600 specs to be 130W then enterin everything must be clocked past the clock/watts sweet point.

So much for them later releasing a Navi23 based 6500 XT with only PCIe power.

Did anyone expect this card to not be clocked past Its sweet spot? Not to mention, the sweet spot for RDNA2 ends at ~2GHz. uzzi38 made a graph based on RX 6700XT, where it's clear how bad 2.5GHz is for efficiency, but AMD won't sacrifice performance for efficiency.
W6600 is actually still very good compared to this. 28CU with ~2.9GHz boost and only 130W TBP, that's 30W less than this.

Why would they even release N23 with only PCIe power? Where did you read this? If they release RX6500XT, then It should be based on N24 in my opinion.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Well...
Is the 5700XT 40% faster than the 5700 ?

Radeon RX 6600 XT vorgestellt: Mehr Leistung als RX 5700 XT und RTX 3060 für 379 USD

RDNA 2 wird etwas günstiger: AMD kündigt die Radeon RX 6600 XT an, die für 379 USD mehr Rasterizer-Leistung als die RTX 3060 bieten soll.

www.computerbase.de

That's against RX 5600XT!
RX 5700XT is only 25% faster at FHD than RX 5600XT.
RX 6600XT won't be 40% faster on average, when RX 6700xt is only 56% faster than RX 5600XT.

 

[insertcarehere]

Well...
Is the 5700XT 40% faster than the 5700 ?

Radeon RX 6600 XT vorgestellt: Mehr Leistung als RX 5700 XT und RTX 3060 für 379 USD

RDNA 2 wird etwas günstiger: AMD kündigt die Radeon RX 6600 XT an, die für 379 USD mehr Rasterizer-Leistung als die RTX 3060 bieten soll.

www.computerbase.de

Because people spending $500+ on a GPU in 2021 should only expect "good performance" in 1080p?

The 5700/5700XT launched at similar prices over two years ago and were marketed based on their gaming performance in 1440p FFS!

The mobile version of Navi 23 would probably do great in notebooks where 1080p is the norm for mid-range gaming laptops but as a dgpu where resolutions can and do go higher this is not so appealing.

 

[KompuKare]

Because people spending $500+ on a GPU in 2021 should only expect "good performance" in 1080p?

The 5700/5700XT launched at similar prices over two years ago and were marketed based on their gaming performance in 1440p FFS!

The mobile version of Navi 23 would probably do great in notebooks where 1080p is the norm for mid-range gaming laptops but as a dgpu where resolutions can and do go higher this is not so appealing.

Yes, it is telling that the slide deck for this launch only talk about 1080P at least without tricks.

Did anyone expect this card to not be clocked past Its sweet spot? Not to mention, the sweet spot for RDNA2 ends at ~2GHz. uzzi38 made a graph based on RX 6700XT, where it's clear how bad 2.5GHz is for efficiency, but AMD won't sacrifice performance for efficiency.
W6600 is actually still very good compared to this. 28CU with ~2.9GHz boost and only 130W TBP, that's 30W less than this.

Why would they even release N23 with only PCIe power? Where did you read this? If they release RX6500XT, then It should be based on N24 in my opinion.

Nowhere, just though they might. No rumours of any Navi 24 so this is as low as it gets. The 1050 and 1650 are big sellers for Nvidia, but it seems AMD doesn't want any slice of that.

 

[leoneazzurro]

Because people spending $500+ on a GPU in 2021 should only expect "good performance" in 1080p?

The 5700/5700XT launched at similar prices over two years ago and were marketed based on their gaming performance in 1440p FFS!

The mobile version of Navi 23 would probably do great in notebooks where 1080p is the norm for mid-range gaming laptops but as a dgpu where resolutions can and do go higher this is not so appealing.

1440p gaming in 2019 and 1440p gaming in 2021 are not the same. Otherwise we could call a 1080 a 4K gaming card in 2015 and expecting it stays the same in 2025.

 

[moinmoin]

I'd have to dig back through the thread to find it, but there was a graph from an AMD presentation showing infinity cache hit rates at various resolutions. I recall that 1080p wasn't very demanding so this card might perform well there, but it's definitely going to hit a wall above that.

6600XT is squarely positioned as 1080p card. With 32MB IC it has near the same hit rate at 1080p as 128MB IC at 4K. Anything higher looks rough though.

 

[Abwx]

That's against RX 5600XT!
RX 5700XT is only 25% faster at FHD than RX 5600XT.
RX 6600XT won't be 40% faster on average, when RX 6700xt is only 56% faster than RX 5600XT.

The 5700 is also on thoses graphs and is slightly better than the 5600XT overall, and 10% better according to Computerbase.

Looking at Computerbase.de data and using the 5600XT as reference then the 5700 is 10% better and the 5700XT is 22% better, so the 6600XT should be 15% better than the 5700XT.

AMDs Radeon RX 6800M im Asus ROG Strix G15 im Test: Benchmarks und Testergebnisse

Radeon RX 6800M im Test: Benchmarks und Testergebnisse / Ein paar Worte zu Notebook-Benchmarks / Testergebnisse mit vielen Variablen

www.computerbase.de

Two things to consider, in Borderlands the 5700XT is only 15% faster than the 5600XT, so the 6600XT will be 20% faster than the 5700XT.

In Doom eternal 5700XT is 22% faster than 5600XT but here the improvement is 1.7x, so the 6600XT will be 40% faster than the 5700XT.

 

[Glo.]

That's against RX 5600XT!
RX 5700XT is only 25% faster at FHD than RX 5600XT.
RX 6600XT won't be 40% faster on average, when RX 6700xt is only 56% faster than RX 5600XT.

Based on AMD's numbers, it appears this GPU will be more in the range of RTX 2080.

Two things to consider, in Borderlands the 5700XT is only 15% faster than the 5600XT, so the 6600XT will be 20% faster than the 5700XT.

No it won't be 20% faster than 5700 XT. It will be on average around 8-10% faster than 5700 XT, and around 15% faster than RTX 3060.

That is not adding up to the price of this GPU, since RTX 3060 Ti will be 20% faster than RX 6600 XT, while costing just 20$ more.

Price absolutely destroyed the value of this GPU and its mindshare.

 

[insertcarehere]

1440p gaming in 2019 and 1440p gaming in 2021 are not the same. Otherwise we could call a 1080 a 4K gaming card in 2015 and expecting it stays the same in 2025.

Except half the games used by AMD to compare 6600XT to its own previous products were literally launched in or before 2019. Did Forza Horizon 4 or Battlefield 5, both games which were marketed to run well at 1440p in 2019 with a 5700XT, suddenly become so much more demanding in 24 months such that it takes a newer, better card to run well at 1080p? Because both games were used on the marketing promos in the 6600XT and implied as such.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

The 5700 is also on thoses graphs and is slightly better than the 5600XT overall, and 10% better according to Computerbase.

I know, but you asked If 5700xt is 40% faster than 5700, which didn't correspond to that graph.

Looking at Computerbase.de data and using the 5600XT as reference then the 5700 is 10% better and the 5700XT is 22% better, so the 6600XT should be 15% better than the 5700XT.

And how much faster is RX 6700XT vs RX 5700XT? ~25%, right? So It would mean RX 6700XT is only ~9% faster than RX 6600XT, which is too low compared to their specs.

 

[leoneazzurro]

Except half the games used by AMD to compare 6600XT to its own previous products were literally launched in or before 2019. Did Forza Horizon 4 or Battlefield 5, both games which were marketed to run well at 1440p in 2019 with a 5700XT, suddenly become so much more demanding in 24 months such that it takes a newer, better card to run well at 1080p? Because both games were used on the marketing promos in the 6600XT and implied as such.

While BF and FH4 may still work well with a 5700XT at 1440p, there are some which clearly do not (like Borderlands3 and others). So the reccommended card for gaming (a wide choice of games) at that resolution (from each supplier) changed since two years ago. Moreover, AMD is clearly marketing their cards according to a certain target resolution, so it makes sense to compare the 6600XT with other cards at its target resolution. Will it perform worse than 5700XT at 4K? Surely, but it is not the target for this card. Amd is quite clear. Today, do you want to play at 4K? 6800/XT/6900. 1440p? Then a 6700XT. 1080p? Then a 6600XT will be satisfying. Today.

 

[leoneazzurro]

And how much faster is RX 6700XT vs RX 5700XT? ~25%, right? So It would mean RX 6700XT is only ~9% faster than RX 6600XT, which is too low compared to their specs.

RX6700XT is 25-30% faster than a 5700XT, but this is in average. Of course individual games will change a lot, and it's clear AMD was showing their best cases. Other games will see quite lower advantage, if any. SubstantiallY 6600XT will be almost on par with 5700XT at 1080p, performance wise, having almost teh same die size on the same processm while costing 20$ less and consuming a lot less. Not a good bargain, not a complete disaster either, unfortunately the situation with the supply is not good and there are even components other than the GPU costing way more than past year, i.e. GDDR6 VRA, is expected to grow in price 8-13% this quarter only, after several quarters of pricing increase. Of course this is not saying the 6600XT seems to be a better value compared to a 3060, but as said it is not completely out of the market either.

 

[blckgrffn]

While BF and FH4 may still work well with a 5700XT at 1440p, there are some which clearly do not (like Borderlands3 and others). So the reccommended card for gaming (a wide choice of games) at that resolution (from each supplier) changed since two years ago. Moreover, AMD is clearly marketing their cards according to a certain target resolution, so it makes sense to compare the 6600XT with other cards at its target resolution. Will it perform worse than 5700XT at 4K? Surely, but it is not the target for this card. Amd is quite clear. Today, do you want to play at 4K? 6800/XT/6900. 1440p? Then a 6700XT. 1080p? Then a 6600XT will be satisfying. Today.

Borderlands 3 is one the 5700xts strongest titles?



Works amazing at 1440p on the 5700xt, besting the 2080S in performance.



In general, it hangs out between the 2070S and 2060S across all benches at 2k.

 

[Abwx]

I know, but you asked If 5700xt is 40% faster than 5700, which didn't correspond to that graph.

And how much faster is RX 6700XT vs RX 5700XT? ~25%, right?

RX 6700XT is 32% faster than 5700XT, so the 6600XT being at 20% is somewhat realistic.

AMDs Radeon RX 6800M im Asus ROG Strix G15 im Test: Benchmarks und Testergebnisse

Radeon RX 6800M im Test: Benchmarks und Testergebnisse / Ein paar Worte zu Notebook-Benchmarks / Testergebnisse mit vielen Variablen

www.computerbase.de

Based on AMD's numbers, it appears this GPU will be more in the range of RTX 2080.
No it won't be 20% faster than 5700 XT. It will be on average around 8-10% faster than 5700 XT, and around 15% faster than RTX 3060.

That is not adding up to the price of this GPU, since RTX 3060 Ti will be 20% faster than RX 6600 XT, while costing just 20$ more.

Price absolutely destroyed the value of this GPU and its mindshare.

In the link i posted 3060ti is 19% faster but it s a desktop card while the RX 6800M (mobile 6600XT...) is in a notebook, we ll see with the DT card but the mobile variant is already 9% ahead of the 5700XT...

Edit : The 6800M has more CUs, but anyway it is meant as 3060 competitor since AMD provide numbers only up to this NV GPU.

Radeon RX 6600 XT vorgestellt: Mehr Leistung als RX 5700 XT und RTX 3060 für 379 USD

RDNA 2 wird etwas günstiger: AMD kündigt die Radeon RX 6600 XT an, die für 379 USD mehr Rasterizer-Leistung als die RTX 3060 bieten soll.

www.computerbase.de

 

[JujuFish]

In general, it hangs out between the 2070S and 2060S across all benches at 2k.

2K is 1080p

 

[leoneazzurro]

Borderlands 3 is one the 5700xts strongest titles?

View attachment 48012

Works amazing at 1440p on the 5700xt, besting the 2080S in performance.

View attachment 48013

In general, it hangs out between the 2070S and 2060S across all benches at 2k.

I looked at other results, namely techpowerup, where the 5700XT barely reaches 60 FPS

ASRock Radeon RX 6700 XT Phantom Gaming D Review - The Fastest RX 6700 XT

The ASRock RX 6700 XT Phantom Gaming D is the first factory overclocked card that's actually faster than the AMD reference. All other competitors failed to deliver any performance gains. Not only out-of-the-box performance is good, overclocking is better than with any other RX 6700 XT, too.

www.techpowerup.com

But anyway, what I wanted to say was that there are now more demanding games which will tax the 5700XT at 1440p below that 60 FPS limit that many seem to see as the only acceptable way to play a game. (i.e. AC Valhalla according to TPU is around 51 FPS at 1440p, Control at 41 FPS, Red Dead Redemption 2 at 49 FPS, Watch Dogs: Legion at 50 FPS (same review). And new AAA titles will be more and more demanding.

 

[leoneazzurro]

In the link i posted 3060ti is 19% faster but it s a desktop card while the RX 6800M (mobile 6600XT...) is in a notebook, we ll see with the DT card but the mobile variant is already 9% ahead of the 5700XT...

6800M is mobile 6700XT, btw. With noticeable clock drop, however.

 

[Abwx]

6800M is mobile 6700XT, btw. With noticeable clock drop, however.

I updated my post meanwhile...

I will add that computerbase put the 3060Ti at 33% better than the 3060, and looking at the numbers from AMD the 6600XT shouldnt be that far behind of the former.

 

[AtenRa]

I believe that RX6600XT will be much like the RX5700XT vs RTX2060 Super and RTX2070 Super in performance and price.

 

[blckgrffn]

2K is 1080p

Not generally speaking. No.