Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

[uzzi38]

All die sizes are within 5mm^2. The poster here has been right on some things in the past afaik, and to his credit was the first to saying 505mm^2 for Navi21, which other people have backed up. Even still though, take the following with a pich of salt.

Navi21 - 505mm^2

Navi22 - 340mm^2

Navi23 - 240mm^2

Source is the following post: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1588075782.A.C1E.html

 

[ModEl4]

It makes the most sense that if the companies (ie, AMD) can bring home $399 for the product, why wouldn't they? It's likely they'll sell out until crypto GPU mining totally tanks and the used cards flood the market. Scalpers gonna scalp.

AMD is for profit and has leeches vampires shareholders to report to.

I don't see it as a money grab at all. If there hadn't been COVID and there hadn't been a trade war and there hadn't been some weird monetary policies and GPU Crypto mining had stayed dead, yeah, this would be like a $300 tops card. And probably way on sale not long after launch.

But those things did/are happening and so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Buying a 5700xt today is stupid expensive so it makes sense to me, at least, it would cost as much or more as an out of warranty 5700xt if it is faster at its primary purpose - gaming.

It's sad that in this day and age we have to try and convince someone that practices like this is not OK and must not support them.
That AMD can sell them at $399 is irrelevant imo, because with the same logic even at $499 potentially can sell out, why not do it, after all they have shareholders to report to, correct?
In Europe, the vast majority of the game is played like this:
AMD is selling to partners (Sapphire etc.)
Partner is selling to the local country distributors (In France for example) (There are also traders etc but this is not the topic)
Distributors are selling to retailers/etailers/VARs etc
Retailers/etailers are selling to consumers
As you can see there are a lot of middlemen until a card reach the consumer at double the SRP and each one of them have their role to play in the final price that reach the consumer. As long as the demand outstrips the supply we are going to have phenomenon like that, the thing is, I am with the side of the consumer and really doesn't feel right to approve tactics like this!
What's the next step for AMD? to try and sustain (to play their small part and try to influence the outcome, even by little) the supply-demand situation for the next 2-3 years to maintain their higher profits?
I see your point, but is it from the side of the consumer?

 

[jpiniero]

What's the next step for AMD? to try and sustain (to play their small part and try to influence the outcome, even by little) the supply-demand situation for the next 2-3 years to maintain their higher profits?
I see your point, but is it from the side of the consumer?

The price is going to be whatever, may as well have AMD get more of the share.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

The price is going to be whatever, may as well have AMD get more of the share.

-Anecdotally, I've heard about AMD cards starting to stay in stock and sit on shelves longer and longer and longer so it seems like AMD has saturated the market of consumers willing to pay MSRP x2 for their cards (meaning even scalpers are no longer picking up AMD cards to resell at inflated prices since they cannot move their existing inventory).

It really is in their interest (and the AIB's interest) to start dropping wholesale prices to saturate the MSRP x1.5 crowd, then the MSRP crowd.

If there ever was a moment for AMD to go grab a buttload of marketshare while maintaining healthy margins, this product gen is it.

 

[Glo.]

AMD simply cannot price that GPU at 399$, unless it is made with Navi 22 GPU die, has 12 GB VRAM buffer, and 36 CUs. Period.

RX 6600 XT will be similar in performance to RTX 2070 Super/RTX 2080, but at much lower power draw.

RTX 3060 Ti is 15% faster than RTX 2070 Super.

At 399$ MSRP this GPU is dead in the water, from the ground up.

Also, Nvidia has the ability to do two things.

Release full RTX 3060 Super with Full die(20 SM's instead of 28), and 12 GB VRAM for 329$, and easily counter this GPU in performance, VRAM capacity, RT performance, but at the cost of efficiency.
AND release RTX 3060 6GB for 279$, with the same, 28 SM's that RTX 3060 12 GB currently has.

AMD HAS to price this GPU at 299$ MSRP, otherwise this GPU is dead on arrival.

 

[Glo.]

-Anecdotally, I've heard about AMD cards starting to stay in stock and sit on shelves longer and longer and longer so it seems like AMD has saturated the market of consumers willing to pay MSRP x2 for their cards (meaning even scalpers are no longer picking up AMD cards to resell at inflated prices since they cannot move their existing inventory).

It really is in their interest (and the AIB's interest) to start dropping wholesale prices to saturate the MSRP x1.5 crowd, then the MSRP crowd.

If there ever was a moment for AMD to go grab a buttload of marketshare while maintaining healthy margins, this product gen is it.

Or simply nobody cares about AMD GPUs, and the only people care about AMD's competitveness is that they can buy Nvidia GPUs cheaper.

If anything recent months have proven us is that exact thing. AMD can have extremely competitive products against Nvidia, and they still will not sell.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Or simply nobody cares about AMD GPUs, and the only people care about AMD's competitveness is that they can buy Nvidia GPUs cheaper.

If anything recent months have proven us is that exact thing. AMD can have extremely competitive products against Nvidia, and they still will not sell.

-I'm counting on it.

If I can pick up a 69/68/6700XT for $$$ less than an equivalent used or new Nvidia card my money is going to the AMD card in a heartbeat.

People will buy AMD, the price just has to be right, and its just not right yet.

 

[jpiniero]

At 399$ MSRP this GPU is dead in the water, from the ground up.

You can't buy a new 3060 Ti at $399 so that's irrelevant. Retailers won't have any problem selling it well above $399 and will.

 

[Glo.]

You can't buy a new 3060 Ti at $399 so that's irrelevant. Retailers won't have any problem selling it well above $399 and will.

And you think that suddenly RX 6600 Xt will be 399$?

 

[jpiniero]

And you think that suddenly RX 6600 Xt will be 399$?

The MSRP being $399 is probably true.

 

[Glo.]

The MSRP being $399 is probably true.

If 399$ MSRP RTX 3060 Ti is not sold anywhere for less than 650$ do you believe that suddenly something different will happen to RX 6600 XT, and it will be available for MSRP?

 

[jpiniero]

If 399$ MSRP RTX 3060 Ti is not sold anywhere for less than 650$ do you believe that suddenly something different will happen to RX 6600 XT, and it will be available for MSRP?

I do not. But that's why AMD can price it's MSRP at $399 and not be DOA.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

If 399$ MSRP RTX 3060 Ti is not sold anywhere for less than 650$ do you believe that suddenly something different will happen to RX 6600 XT, and it will be available for MSRP?

-Well if retailers have a buttload of AMD cards already sitting on their shelves (and the wrong side of their balance sheets) then... maybe?

 

[Glo.]

I do not. But that's why AMD can price it's MSRP at $399 and not be DOA.

No they can't. Because when people will see that this GPU is slower than RTX 3060 Ti while having the same MSRP - how will this affect their mindshare about this particular GPU?

They will just laugh at it.

 

[jpiniero]

No they can't. Because when people will see that this GPU is slower than RTX 3060 Ti while having the same MSRP - how will this affect their mindshare about this particular GPU?

They will just laugh at it.

But the MSRP is irrelevent since you can't buy the 3060 Ti at $399.

 

[blckgrffn]

If I could walk into a Microcenter and buy one off the shelf for $400 today I would go do it right now. No hesitation. Because the next SKU up, the 6700xt? It’s in a box there for $900.

Especially if the performance gap is only about 25%.

I hope Nvidia sees it and counters it with better cheaper cards - ones that can be purchased.

 

[beginner99]

If anything recent months have proven us is that exact thing. AMD can have extremely competitive products against Nvidia, and they still will not sell.

The don't sell because the prices are almost as insane as NV card while NV cards are better for mining. So the miners take NV and the gamers don't want to pay 2x msrp hence they stay on the shelf.

I could get a 6700XT from my local online shop delivered tomorrow, for $1200.
I could get a 6800XT from my local online shop delivered next week, for $1600.
I could get a 6900XT from my local online shop delivered tomorrow, for $2600.

Still wonder why they are in stock?

 

[Gideon]

The don't sell because the prices are almost as insane as NV card while NV cards are better for mining. So the miners take NV and the gamers don't want to pay 2x msrp hence they stay on the shelf.

I could get a 6700XT from my local online shop delivered tomorrow, for $1200.
I could get a 6800XT from my local online shop delivered next week, for $1600.
I could get a 6900XT from my local online shop delivered tomorrow, for $2600.

Still wonder why they are in stock?

Ouch, and I thought our prices were bad:

6700XT ~= 960$ with 20% VAT
6800XT ~= 1300$ with 20% VAT
6900XT ~= 1 970$ with 20% VAT

But yeah, Nvidia prices are close-enough that it's still a rough sale for most people.

 

[leoneazzurro]

Btw, Laptops with 6700M/6600M seems to exist

MSI announces Delta 15 and Alpha 15/17 AMD Advantage gaming laptops with RX 6600M/6700M GPUs - VideoCardz.com

MSI Announces the Brand New AMDAdvantage™ Edition Gaming Laptops with Latest Radeon™ RX6000M Series Graphics The new AMD gaming series include the revamps of Alpha 15/17 and the newly design Delta 15. (TAIPEI, TAIWAN) MSI, a world-leading gaming brand, announces the all-new AMD-powered gaming...

videocardz.com

 

[Glo.]

The don't sell because the prices are almost as insane as NV card while NV cards are better for mining. So the miners take NV and the gamers don't want to pay 2x msrp hence they stay on the shelf.

I could get a 6700XT from my local online shop delivered tomorrow, for $1200.
I could get a 6800XT from my local online shop delivered next week, for $1600.
I could get a 6900XT from my local online shop delivered tomorrow, for $2600.

Still wonder why they are in stock?

In my, European country:

RX 6700 XT at some point cost the same as RTX 3060, now costs 100€ below RTX 3060 Ti, and around 300€ below RTX 3070.
RX 6800 costs the same as 3070.
RX 6800 XT costs the same as some 3070 SKUs and is around 25€ more expensive than 3070, on average.

The reason for this situation in Europe is exactly what I have written. People only want AMD to be competitive so they can buy Nvidia GPUs cheaper.

 

[scineram]

AMD Radeon RX 6600 XT allegedly launches in August - VideoCardz.com

AMD Radeon RX 6600 XT to launch in August New information on the upcoming Navi 23 graphics card from AMD. According to YouTuber Coreteks AMD is set to launch its Radeon RX 6600 XT graphics card in August. Furthermore, during the last Broken Silicon podcast from Moore’s Law is Dead one of the...

videocardz.com

Coreteks and MLID seem to think the 6600XT's "MSRP" is going to be $399.

If true that would be very based. On the other hand where is the 6700?

 

[jpiniero]

If true that would be very based. On the other hand where is the 6700?

You do have the 6700M. Might not have pricing room if the 6600 XT is "$399" and the 6700 XT is "$479".

 

[DeathReborn]

In my, European country:

RX 6700 XT at some point cost the same as RTX 3060, now costs 100€ below RTX 3060 Ti, and around 300€ below RTX 3070.
RX 6800 costs the same as 3070.
RX 6800 XT costs the same as some 3070 SKUs and is around 25€ more expensive than 3070, on average.

The reason for this situation in Europe is exactly what I have written. People only want AMD to be competitive so they can buy Nvidia GPUs cheaper.

In my European but not EU country with 20% VAT... stock being fairly unmoving at these prices:

6900XT £1,400
6800XT £1,180
6800 £1,110
6700XT £690

3090 £2,000
3080 Ti £1,700
3080 £1,300
3070 Ti £1,120
3070 £800
3060 Ti £850
3060 £600

6600XT if it is a $399 (phantom MSRP) product like the 3060 Ti then it should MSRP in the UK at £369, I'd say anything over $349 (£319 UK) is daylight robbery though.

 

[Geranium]

In my, European country:

RX 6700 XT at some point cost the same as RTX 3060, now costs 100€ below RTX 3060 Ti, and around 300€ below RTX 3070.
RX 6800 costs the same as 3070.
RX 6800 XT costs the same as some 3070 SKUs and is around 25€ more expensive than 3070, on average.

The reason for this situation in Europe is exactly what I have written. People only want AMD to be competitive so they can buy Nvidia GPUs cheaper.

And this how we get Monopoly and high GPU price. AMD tried with RX 480/580, but people rewarded their money to Nvida. As reuslt we got RX 480/580 successor at 350$ instead of like 280-300$. If this continues gpu msrp will never come down, it will be only going up.

 

[Mopetar]

And this how we get Monopoly and high GPU price. AMD tried with RX 480/580, but people rewarded their money to Nvida. As reuslt we got RX 480/580 successor at 350$ instead of like 280-300$. If this continues gpu msrp will never come down, it will be only going up.

It can only go up as much as people are willing to pay those higher prices. Higher prices also leave more room for new competitors (like Intel) to enter the market.

From a certain perspective though part of the problem is that other silicon is more profitable to manufacture which limits how much GPU manufacturers can produce. Even at higher prices, AMD is still generally better of making Zen chiplets since they can be sold for far more than GPU dies can be.

Limited production at a time of increased demand have spawned the current situation.

 

[DeathReborn]

*Moved the post to a GPU pricing related thread.*

To keep topic appropriate... how high do you guys think the RDNA2 based APU's in things like the Steamdeck could be pushed to?