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Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

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Mar 11, 2004
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When is anandtech done with the GPU deep dive and review anyways?
Heck, when are they going to bother with even a news announcement about either the RDNA2 or CDNA launch? We got a fluff "interview" with Intel about GPU, an announcement about A100 getting higher HBM capacity, a bunch of affiliate link deals, and other, but they can't even put up a blurb about two major launches?

Granted it seems that they're busy arguing with people on Twitter about the Apple M1 chip, so I guess that's priority?
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,110
786
136
Im petty much decided for a RX 6800 at this point. The only thing that is making my doubt is the cache itself, it may become more ineffective as the years past by and developers start using higher quality assets.
 

Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,252
1,862
136
Im petty much decided for a RX 6800 at this point. The only thing that is making my doubt is the cache itself, it may become more ineffective as the years past by and developers start using higher quality assets.
Wouldn't lack of vram suffer before the cache? It's possible Nvidia sponsored games will find a way to defeat the benefit of the cache....They probably got a team working on it as I type.
 

TESKATLIPOKA

Senior member
May 1, 2020
265
298
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For someone not being an ''AMD lover'' you got seriously butthurt and came back with a weak response and personal attacks, So you would rather buy a card that is 3% more efficient or 5% faster? Guess what? No one in earth is going to consider that 3% of more efficiency in this case..
That 5% difference can be gained by OC Big Navi, because It has more OC reserve than Ampere.
 
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uzzi38

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2019
1,220
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Maybe you should include also the tests of Computerbase on new titles, that were not included in that average but have a separate table. Should I?

FPS-Unterschiede RX 6000 vs. RTX 3000

Spiel (3.840 × 2.160)6800 XT vs. 30806800 vs. 3070
Assassin's Creed: Valhalla106 %114 %
COD Black Ops: Cold War99 %113 %
Dirt 5120 %124 %
Mafia: Definitive Edition83 %99 %
Serious Sam 4103 %113 %
Star Wars: Squadrons106 %117 %
Watch Dogs: Legion105 %115 %
Siege AMD/Nvidia5/26/1
3080 und 3070 normiert auf 100 Prozent

I didn't see those the first time either.

...can't believe they did that
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,110
786
136
Wouldn't lack of vram suffer before the cache? It's possible Nvidia sponsored games will find a way to defeat the benefit of the cache....They probably got a team working on it as I type.
That will likely be true to the 3070, the RX 6800 will likely hit a bandwidth limit way before that.
 

psolord

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2009
1,308
352
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For someone not being an ''AMD lover'' you got seriously butthurt and came back with a weak response and personal attacks, So you would rather buy a card that is 3% more efficient or 5% faster? Guess what? No one in earth is going to consider that 3% of more efficiency in this case..
That's what I meant genius, they are pretty much equal in terms of overall performance. Only the 6800XT is cheaper with 60% more vram.

I am not an AMD lover by far. I am only a lover of my wallet. I value what is on offer here.

Facing your constant trolling is butthurting enough. I haven't gotten an AMD card since the Radeon 7950 for crying out loud.

The only one being butthurt, to use your words, will be you, when the 6900XT comes out.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
4,589
3,190
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Giving credit to you, lets use the most Pro-Nvidia sites review there is. Tom's Hardware.



Shame. Maybe another review site/youtuber will show something that will confirm your agenda?

6800xt.JPG6800xt1440p.JPG

Still nothing?

Well, maybe simply AMD's product is factually superior to Nvidia's product?

Because its more efficient, while costing less, and while being objectively faster or on par with Nvidia's product?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
103,512
18,067
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For someone not being an ''AMD lover'' you got seriously butthurt and came back with a weak response and personal attacks, So you would rather buy a card that is 3% more efficient or 5% faster? Guess what? No one in earth is going to consider that 3% of more efficiency in this case..
no, he just doesn't like terrible arguments. Any brand-agnostic person can recognize a terrible argument when they see one.

Sometimes arguments are so bad, that they reveal some intended purpose behind them, hence the response(s)
 

KompuKare

Senior member
Jul 28, 2009
629
148
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Like all the other rabid nvidia fanboys, he's hiding behind 4K and RT results now. Those are the only metrics that matter to them now.
Well, fake4K at least anyhow.
Yes, I realise that no card can do full raytracing at 4K, but why pretend that 1440P / 1080P (or worse) upscaled to 4K is the next big thing?
Of course, shortcut AA versus over-sharpened upscaling is the main reason why people think fake4K is good.
 

TESKATLIPOKA

Senior member
May 1, 2020
265
298
96


Giving credit to you, lets use the most Pro-Nvidia sites review there is. Tom's Hardware.



Shame. Maybe another review site/youtuber will show something that will confirm your agenda?

View attachment 34249View attachment 34250

Still nothing?

Well, maybe simply AMD's product is factually superior to Nvidia's product?

Because its more efficient, while costing less, and while being objectively faster or on par with Nvidia's product?
You are only showing 1080p and 1440p because you know very well, that in 4K RX 6800XT is not so fast as in lower resolution.
In my opinion, It's because of low hitrate of Infinity cache in 4k compared to lower resolution.
 
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Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
4,589
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You are only showing 1080p and 1440p because you know very well, that in 4K RX 6800XT is not so fast as in lower resolution.
In my opinion, It's because of low hitrate of Infinity cache in 4k compared to lower resolution.
Read the full context of the discussion.
 
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TESKATLIPOKA

Senior member
May 1, 2020
265
298
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Did I miss anything? Yes, he is a kinda agressive in his stance, but even so.
He was claiming 6800XT is slower than RTX 3800 and as proof he was showing a performance chart of 4K. You were saying AMD is better and was showing 1080p and 1440p charts to back up your claim.
In my opinion 4K is more representative of showing a GPU performance withouth being CPU bound and Big Navi loses there, because Infinity cache is only 128MB, 256MB would have ~75% hitrate, which is much better, but also a lot bigger.
 
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Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
4,589
3,190
136
Did I miss anything? Yes, he is a kinda agressive in his stance, but even so.
He was claiming 6800XT is slower than RTX 3800 and as proof he was showing a performance chart of 4K. You were saying AMD is better and was showing 1080p and 1440p charts to back up your claim.
In my opinion 4K is more representative of showing a GPU performance withouth being CPU bound and Big Navi loses there, because Infinity cache is only 128MB, 256MB would have ~75% hitrate, which is much better, but also a lot bigger.
RDNA2 wins in 1080p, draws in 1440p, loses in 4K.

Its more power efficient and more cost effective GPU(s).

Yes. You are missing those factors. Adding all this up tells you that in most important performance factors its a draw, while in two other PRODUCT factors AMD wins.

So effectively - 6800 and 6800 XT is superior product, over Nvidia's counterparts.

Was it THAT difficult to see this context?
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,049
1,554
136
I don't know if I'd go so far to claim Navi 21 is a superior product, but it's pretty clear that it isn't an inferior one either. Even at 4K there are still several titles where it performs better than Ampere (just like there are some in the lower resolutions where it still loses) so if all a person cares about it one particular title then that's all that matters. If all someone cares about is the best RT possible, then NVidia is obviously the superior product, but if you're a eSport streamer that just wants the fastest 1080p results AMD is clearly ahead. Trying to use some arbitrary set of categories and an average of how many each company "wins" isn't particularly useful, especially when the cards are both pretty close in general performance and each has their own unique set of strengths.

I realize that you've had some reliable insider information about how RDNA2 was going to stack up, but I think most of us are quite surprised that AMD is actually competitive with NVidia's top cards. When's the last time that they were within 5% at the high end? You have to go back to early GCN and typically NVidia would launch something a few months later that would create a fairly massive gap that AMD would need to catch up to all over again. With this generation we know that NVidia really doesn't have anywhere to go, because they've already released their absolute best card in the 3090, which doesn't scale all that well over the 3080.

Meanwhile AMD has the eventual option of releasing a card with faster GDDR6X memory and some of the leaks have suggested that AIB cards can be pushed a fair bit further in the overclocks, so there's a good possibility that in 8 months we see a mid-generation refresh from AMD that does have a solid lead in 4K averages. Never mind that console ports are are likely to do better on Navi since the consoles share the same RDNA2 architecture. It's pretty ludicrous for AMD to be in this position at all quite frankly.
 

MrTeal

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 2003
2,939
599
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I don't know if I'd go so far to claim Navi 21 is a superior product, but it's pretty clear that it isn't an inferior one either. Even at 4K there are still several titles where it performs better than Ampere (just like there are some in the lower resolutions where it still loses) so if all a person cares about it one particular title then that's all that matters. If all someone cares about is the best RT possible, then NVidia is obviously the superior product, but if you're a eSport streamer that just wants the fastest 1080p results AMD is clearly ahead. Trying to use some arbitrary set of categories and an average of how many each company "wins" isn't particularly useful, especially when the cards are both pretty close in general performance and each has their own unique set of strengths.

I realize that you've had some reliable insider information about how RDNA2 was going to stack up, but I think most of us are quite surprised that AMD is actually competitive with NVidia's top cards. When's the last time that they were within 5% at the high end? You have to go back to early GCN and typically NVidia would launch something a few months later that would create a fairly massive gap that AMD would need to catch up to all over again. With this generation we know that NVidia really doesn't have anywhere to go, because they've already released their absolute best card in the 3090, which doesn't scale all that well over the 3080.

Meanwhile AMD has the eventual option of releasing a card with faster GDDR6X memory and some of the leaks have suggested that AIB cards can be pushed a fair bit further in the overclocks, so there's a good possibility that in 8 months we see a mid-generation refresh from AMD that does have a solid lead in 4K averages. Never mind that console ports are are likely to do better on Navi since the consoles share the same RDNA2 architecture. It's pretty ludicrous for AMD to be in this position at all quite frankly.
Are you sure AMD could release a card with GDDR6X? Even if it becomes available outside Nvidia, surely at the minimum it would require a redesign of the memory controller.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,049
1,554
136
Are you sure AMD could release a card with GDDR6X? Even if it becomes available outside Nvidia, surely at the minimum it would require a redesign of the memory controller.
I thought it was supposed to be compatible, but I may be mistaken about that. I'm fairly sure that Micron and the other manufacturers would like to sell to AMD at some point as well.
 

XabanakFanatik

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 2005
2,166
255
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I thought it was supposed to be compatible, but I may be mistaken about that. I'm fairly sure that Micron and the other manufacturers would like to sell to AMD at some point as well.
Maybe compatible with the memory controller, but the PCB layout has to be altered for the higher signaling rates. This is why the memory is so darned close to the package on 3080/3090's.

At minimum it would require an all new PCB, and the memory proximity would probably require altering the cooler mounting placement. And it seems like it's much more power hungry than GDDR6, so the VRM would probably have to be improved. It's a lot more than just "drop GDDR6x onto an existing card"
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,049
1,554
136
Maybe compatible with the memory controller, but the PCB layout has to be altered for the higher signaling rates. This is why the memory is so darned close to the package on 3080/3090's.

At minimum it would require an all new PCB, and the memory proximity would probably require altering the cooler mounting placement. And it seems like it's much more power hungry than GDDR6, so the VRM would probably have to be improved. It's a lot more than just "drop GDDR6x onto an existing card"
A new PCB is far easier than a new memory controller. It wouldn't make sense for AMD to do it until there are 2 GB memory modules available anyhow or they'd be stuck trying to sell you a 8 GB Navi 21 and I don't think there's any debate as to whether that's going to be enough to last for the next three years unless you really only care about 1080p performance.
 

moinmoin

Platinum Member
Jun 1, 2017
2,074
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If all someone cares about is the best RT* possible, then NVidia is obviously the superior product
* As realized by games so far. Which is a huge constraint considering before this launch Nvidia was the only player in town, while from now on with next gen consoles having launched RT is very likely being optimized around those consoles, which are significantly weaker than the 6000 cards launched so far. We don't know how Nvidia cards will fare with those RT optimizations, but in any case we can expect games on consoles to use only RT effects that run fast enough, and those likely will be available on PC as well.
 
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