The U.S. appears to be playing along very well in that respect.
Stupid poll. Spain should not have gone against the electorate in the first place. They're correct to pull out.
The U.S. appears to be playing along very well in that respect.
Stupid poll. Spain should not have gone against the electorate in the first place. They're correct to pull out.
must say that the two "alternatives" you posted are the stupidist I've ever seen in a poll.
The truth hurts but either you fight terrorism or you give in to their deamands, Spain chose to give in and say we won't fight if you will not bother us, It doesn't work that way, They are called terroist for a reason, Now I heard on the radio that they are planing something here close to our election to get Kerry elected, Spain let the terrorist elect there leader, I'll be damed if that will happen in The US, We pick our leaders, Bush or Kerry not terrorsit, The way you deal with terrorism is you hunt them down and you kill them, I would hate to have a loved one killed on that train and see the leader of Spain just give in, What will they ask for next
The truth hurts but either you fight terrorism or you give in to their deamands, Spain chose to give in and say we won't fight if you will not bother us, It doesn't work that way, They are called terroist for a reason, Now I heard on the radio that they are planing something here close to our election to get Kerry elected, Spain let the terrorist elect there leader, I'll be damed if that will happen in The US, We pick our leaders, Bush or Kerry not terrorsit, The way you deal with terrorism is you hunt them down and you kill them, I would hate to have a loved one killed on that train and see the leader of Spain just give in, What will they ask for next
That would be letting the terrorists govern your state. The best policy is to ignore what they want and do what is best for you.
Have any of you guys thought what kind of people these terrorists are that you want to look the other way and appease?
I'm sure Al-Qaeda knew that 90% of the Spanairds were against the war in Iraq and yet they went out of their way to kill as many of them as possible. Do you really think that by "looking the other way" and "not getting involved" will make them safe? Sure, it will make them safe in the short run but not in the long run. We either stand together now and fight terrorism or our children will suffer the consequences in the future.
anyone else think that terrorists have won a battle?
anyone else think that Spain is now officially a Euroweenie and couldn't even take a punch? hell Australia took a punch with the Bali bombings 150+ Australians dead, and its still fighting.
anyone else hear the news that some group in France threatened to blow up its railways and demanded money, and France gave in and decided to pay 4 million dollars but screwed up the drop off? Probably pays off terrorists too?
-I just put the france thing in there because I thought it was funny, I don't really think they pay off terrorists.
anyone else think that Spain is now officially a Euroweenie and couldn't even take a punch? hell Australia took a punch with the Bali bombings 150+ Australians dead, and its still fighting.
anyone else hear the news that some group in France threatened to blow up its railways and demanded money, and France gave in and decided to pay 4 million dollars but screwed up the drop off? Probably pays off terrorists too?
-I just put the france thing in there because I thought it was funny, I don't really think they pay off terrorists.
CaptnKirk
Lifer
- Jul 25, 2002
- 10,053
- 0
- 71
"Spain chose to give in and say we won't fight if you will not bother us"
It's not that simple. Spain did not chose to 'give in to the terrorists'
.
The people of Spain chose to thow out a government that was not listening to the pulse of their people.
A government that had deceived them, that went along with a falsification of information, and a government
that had decided that they would side with the Bush Administrzation against their own populations wishes.
Even when it was becoming evident that the al Queda may be deeply involved in the bombings, their
government continued to lie to them, trying to salvage the Bush friendship, and continuing to try to make
it look as if the ETA was to blame. When caught in a lie they couldn't stop lying.
The people just plain got fed up with the governments degree of deceipt.
The tragety that I see in this is that the popular governing party has been replaced by the Socialist Party.
Great.
In a rebuke of their government, they choose to set back the gains in democracy that they made.
This may just be the tip of the preverbial iceberg - I fully expect to see Blair tossed out of Britan for
his going along with Bush's Crusade and Excellent Adventure, as well as the Australlian Government
taking on and replacing John Howard for the same Pro-Bush alliance.
Bush has made a total mess of world politics, and he doesn't even know it.
(He may in fact know it - he just dosen't care - Texas Justice, My Way or the Highway)
It's not that simple. Spain did not chose to 'give in to the terrorists'
.
The people of Spain chose to thow out a government that was not listening to the pulse of their people.
A government that had deceived them, that went along with a falsification of information, and a government
that had decided that they would side with the Bush Administrzation against their own populations wishes.
Even when it was becoming evident that the al Queda may be deeply involved in the bombings, their
government continued to lie to them, trying to salvage the Bush friendship, and continuing to try to make
it look as if the ETA was to blame. When caught in a lie they couldn't stop lying.
The people just plain got fed up with the governments degree of deceipt.
The tragety that I see in this is that the popular governing party has been replaced by the Socialist Party.
Great.
In a rebuke of their government, they choose to set back the gains in democracy that they made.
This may just be the tip of the preverbial iceberg - I fully expect to see Blair tossed out of Britan for
his going along with Bush's Crusade and Excellent Adventure, as well as the Australlian Government
taking on and replacing John Howard for the same Pro-Bush alliance.
Bush has made a total mess of world politics, and he doesn't even know it.
(He may in fact know it - he just dosen't care - Texas Justice, My Way or the Highway)
I'm worried for Poland, Japan and the other nations who supported us. Al-Qaeda is probably more eager to hit them now that they got good results with their attack in Spain.
Would you happen to have a link to how Aznar's gov falsified information?
I don't think they deliberately mislead the Spanish people, I think thats just a perception by the people. I think the Spanish gov was just under pressure to find out who did it quickly, and they said they thought it was the usual suspects which was the ETA. We did a similiar thing in the Oklahoma bombing blaming it on Muslim terrorists. Its only been 4 days since 3/11, I think it took the US longer than that to find out it was home-grown terrorists.
True -this isn't a bow to terrorism, but a reminder that if you want to get re-elected in a democracy you'd better listen to what your voters want. The fact that the gov tried to immeadiately blame the atrocity on ETA to prop itself up left a very sour taste in the mouth of some spaniards I know, and the gov paid the price for that.
By the way - don't worry too much about blair losing his job over this - until there's some kind of credible opposition he's pretty safe. Plus theres a feeling here that even though he went against the wishes of (probably) a majority of the populace, at least he was relatively honest about it, and acted accorded to his principles.
The Spanish Socialist is a democratic party just like the Partido Popular
a lot of Americans doesn't seem to understand that these are just "normal" leftish parties
democracy has prevailed in Spain, the Spanish people made it clear that they don't want the Partido Popular
CaptnKirk
Lifer
- Jul 25, 2002
- 10,053
- 0
- 71
Would you happen to have a link to how Aznar's gov falsified information?
This is from an 'International (Dateline Madrid) News-wire report in the NY Times
<SHORT info for CLIP>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The bombings, the deadliest terror attack in Europe since World War II, turned on its head what just a few days ago seemed to be a likely victory by Mr. Aznar's Popular Party. Some voters apparently believed that Al Qaeda had plotted the attacks to punish Mr. Aznar for supporting the Iraq war, which Spaniards overwhelmingly opposed.
With each new bit of information about the investigation into the attack came accusations that Mr. Aznar's party may have tried to suppress evidence of possible Qaeda involvement by assuming that Basque separatists were responsible.
In addition to the men who have been arrested, the Spanish authorities were investigating the possible involvement in the plot of other militant Muslims previously known to Spanish intelligence officials.
One official said investigators were examining how militants active in Spain may have joined with others from abroad to carry out the attack.
The threat of terrorism became more of a reality to many in Europe. In Germany, the government held an emergency meeting of its security cabinet. Interior Minister Otto Schily said Germany was asking for an emergency gathering of European police and security officials to form what he called a "common assessment" of the terrorism danger and to "coordinate how to respond."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One other thing - a Government that takes false information from another Government and passes that information along
to it's people as valid information, is an accessoriy to perpetuating that falsehood, whether they knowingly sustained the
fabrication of evidence or not, a lie is a lie, and knows no pedigree.
This is from an 'International (Dateline Madrid) News-wire report in the NY Times
<SHORT info for CLIP>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The bombings, the deadliest terror attack in Europe since World War II, turned on its head what just a few days ago seemed to be a likely victory by Mr. Aznar's Popular Party. Some voters apparently believed that Al Qaeda had plotted the attacks to punish Mr. Aznar for supporting the Iraq war, which Spaniards overwhelmingly opposed.
With each new bit of information about the investigation into the attack came accusations that Mr. Aznar's party may have tried to suppress evidence of possible Qaeda involvement by assuming that Basque separatists were responsible.
In addition to the men who have been arrested, the Spanish authorities were investigating the possible involvement in the plot of other militant Muslims previously known to Spanish intelligence officials.
One official said investigators were examining how militants active in Spain may have joined with others from abroad to carry out the attack.
The threat of terrorism became more of a reality to many in Europe. In Germany, the government held an emergency meeting of its security cabinet. Interior Minister Otto Schily said Germany was asking for an emergency gathering of European police and security officials to form what he called a "common assessment" of the terrorism danger and to "coordinate how to respond."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One other thing - a Government that takes false information from another Government and passes that information along
to it's people as valid information, is an accessoriy to perpetuating that falsehood, whether they knowingly sustained the
fabrication of evidence or not, a lie is a lie, and knows no pedigree.
It becomes just once the U.N. sanctions it. Until then it is unjust and illegal by the rules we accepted when we joined the U.N.
So you are saying there are no sovereign nations? Get real buddy. The UN doesnt make something legal or illegal. It lets countries, most third world, air their grievances. By your logic Clintons Kosovo War was unjust and illegal.
Oh wait it was, it turns out much of the evidence that brought the US into that war was exaggerated or fabricated. Oh but lets not go into that.
I think the Spaniards simply realized that the war in Iraq didn't make them any safer than they were before. At least they're not too proud to admit the war was a fraud and move on to focus on the actual terrorists for a change. Why we can't do that over here is beyond me. Perhaps 1/2 our country is too emotionally invested in our "leader" and afraid (of terror?) to admit that Bush went off on a tangent by invading Iraq.
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
- Dec 27, 2001
- 11,272
- 1
- 0
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
- 126
Looks like it cost them now. The bill just got lost in the mail.
Interesting that at one time war was waged out of need, but now the standard is the price tag. Great.
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