Spain's Troops Will Leave Iraq

[Witling]

MadDogChen, Give it a rest. The quote from the Captain's article said,

"A government that had deceived them, that went along with a falsification of information, and a government
that had decided that they would side with the Bush Administrzation against their own populations wishes."

It did not say, as you attempted to imply, that Spain falsified information. Your statement was, "Would you happen to have a link to how Aznar's gov falsified information?" This mistatement is understandable and forgiveable if English is your second language. It's distortion if English isn't your second language.

The majority of opinions on this thread seem to envision only two policies. Fight or capitulate. Someone wisely mentioned just persuing your own interests. Fighting always engenders resistance and retaliation until the cycle can be broken. How well has it worked for Israel?

 

[sandorski]

The Spanish people just handed the asses of lying POS politicians back to them. The Government had promised Security and the invasion of Iraq was going to deliver the promise, it didn't and all the reasons to invade Iraq have been repeatedly proven to be untrue. Audios!

A trend that will soon spread to Britain and beyond.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: sandorski
The Spanish people just handed the asses of lying POS politicians back to them. The Government had promised Security and the invasion of Iraq was going to deliver the promise, it didn't and all the reasons to invade Iraq have been repeatedly proven to be untrue. Audios!

A trend that will soon spread to Britain and beyond.

Britain? I think not. For all practical purposes, Blair will be running unopposed next year. Think liberals and canada

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
Islam must be destroyed.

STFU you moron!

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: sandorski
The Spanish people just handed the asses of lying POS politicians back to them. The Government had promised Security and the invasion of Iraq was going to deliver the promise, it didn't and all the reasons to invade Iraq have been repeatedly proven to be untrue. Audios!

A trend that will soon spread to Britain and beyond.

Britain? I think not. For all practical purposes, Blair will be running unopposed next year. Think liberals and canada

Offtopic: I like Martin and think he's the best for the job, but the recent exposure of Liberal Party shenanigans will likely make him into another Kim Campbell. Time will tell though, unless the Conservative can come up with some dazzling policies, I just might vote Liberal(Federally) for the first time!

PS Blair is toast.

 

[Ornery]

"Fight or capitulate. Someone wisely mentioned just persuing your own interests. Fighting always engenders resistance and retaliation until the cycle can be broken. How well has it worked for Israel?"

I take it your plan (and half this board), is to capitulate, eh? Count me out. I say, turn up the heat. Same with Israel. They're fighting now with one hand tied behind their back. Fvck that! Pull out all the stops. Seems to be the only thing terrorists understand anyway.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Witling
MadDogChen, Give it a rest. The quote from the Captain's article said,

"A government that had deceived them, that went along with a falsification of information, and a government
that had decided that they would side with the Bush Administrzation against their own populations wishes."

It did not say, as you attempted to imply, that Spain falsified information. Your statement was, "Would you happen to have a link to how Aznar's gov falsified information?" This mistatement is understandable and forgiveable if English is your second language. It's distortion if English isn't your second language.

The majority of opinions on this thread seem to envision only two policies. Fight or capitulate. Someone wisely mentioned just persuing your own interests. Fighting always engenders resistance and retaliation until the cycle can be broken. How well has it worked for Israel?

ahh Isreal, nice of you to bring that up. Ever heard of the Oslo accord?

 

[Witling]

Ornrey, you misquoted me. I said, "The majority of opinions on this thread seem to envision only two policies. Fight or capitulate. Someone wisely mentioned just persuing your own interests." This implies that there are more choices than to simply fight or simply capitulate. Minding your own business is one example of a third choice.

You said, "I take it your plan (and half this board), is to capitulate, eh? Count me out. I say, turn up the heat. Same with Israel. They're fighting now with one hand tied behind their back. Fvck that! Pull out all the stops. Seems to be the only thing terrorists understand anyway." That puts you squarly back into the only two option situation.

First you start with a poll of astonishing stupidity (although I see you amended the thread title to not advertise that), then you either deliberately misquote or show a stupefying inability to understand. Care to sin against our intelligence for a third time before the day ends?

 

[Ornery]

WTF are you talking about? The only change made to the OP, was the link to the story.


"Someone wisely mentioned just persuing your own interests."

CHRIST! Animals from the Middle East are blowing up buildings, and killing civilians in our country, and it's your opinion that it's NOT in our interest to retaliate?

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: Ornery
WTF are you talking about? The only change made to the OP, was the link to the story.


"Someone wisely mentioned just persuing your own interests."

CHRIST! Animals from the Middle East are blowing up buildings, and killing civilians in our country, and it's your opinion that it's NOT in our interest to retaliate?

you get your stories from Fox news LOL! what a joke

 

[Red Dawn]

Didn't the new Spanish President say that he would pull Spain's troops from Iraq unless there is more UN involvement?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Didn't the new Spanish President say that he would pull Spain's troops from Iraq unless there is more UN involvement?

Pretty much.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Didn't the new Spanish President say that he would pull Spain's troops from Iraq unless there is more UN involvement?

Pretty much.

Isn't Bush trying toget the UIN involved now? If so and it the Dub is successful getting the UN more involved then the likelyhood of Spain pulling it's troops out of Iraq isn't such a sure thing. Now if this scenario plays oiut how can one say that the Terrorist won? It seems like they actually lose because not only will Spain's troops stay but there will be a greater presence from other UN Member nations

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Didn't the new Spanish President say that he would pull Spain's troops from Iraq unless there is more UN involvement?

Pretty much.

Isn't Bush trying toget the UIN involved now? If so and it the Dub is successful getting the UN more involved then the likelyhood of Spain pulling it's troops out of Iraq isn't such a sure thing. Now if this scenario plays oiut how can one say that the Terrorist won? It seems like they actually lose because not only will Spain's troops stay but there will be a greater presence from other UN Member nations

I dunno, I think much of the criticism is just a reaction to the Socialists winning. It certainly looks bad for Bush and his "Coalition".

 

[arsbanned]

It goes much further than just disengaging from Iraq. Spain is going to turn away from the U.S. completely in the coming years and will instead forge powerful alliances with France and Germany.
Bush has made a blunder of fantastic proportions. This could spell the doom of American foreign policy for years to come.

As well as reversing Spain?s stance on Iraq, Zapatero said he would make Spain?s relations with its European Union partners a priority.

?Spain will get back in touch with Europe,? Zapatero said. ?Spain will be more pro-European than ever.?

Nice job, President Bush. Alienate yet another country.

 

[Jhhnn]

The new Spanish govt promised to pull their troops out of Iraq long before the Madrid bombings. It was part of their platform all through the election process. They're sticking to it, probably in the face of a lot of knee-jerk desire for revenge, something our own govt has exploited rather than suppressed.

That's how we ended up in Iraq, remember? Saddam- Osama- Al Qaeda- WMD's- Terrar!- Oh My! None of it was true, of course, but it served to satisfy the whipped-up lust for r@ghead blood, divert attention away from other issues, fulfill neocon dreams of glory, and away from the idea that our own policy is the basis for terrorist rage and recruitment. Our current military adventurism and expenditures are the American version of the Maginot Line- terrorism is, by definition, an end-run around these kinds of foolish non-defenses.

 

[Ornery]

"...our own policy is the basis for terrorist rage..."

Yep, we brought it on ourselves...

 

[Witling]

Ornery said "CHRIST! Animals from the Middle East are blowing up buildings, and killing civilians in our country, and it's your opinion that it's NOT in our interest to retaliate?"

The problem, Ornery, is that Iraq wasn't involved in the terrorism. Therefore, there was no need to retaliate against Iraq. Both President Bush and Colin Powell have come out and said words to the effect of "Hey, no. I never said that Iraq was involved with the terrorists. I'd say, "Congratulations," but I see this entry is on the 16th.

 

[Ornery]

"Someone wisely mentioned just persuing your own interests..."

That means castrating thugs before they fvck you with WMD. That would make 911 look like a walk in the park by comparison. Non compliance with R1441, coupled with our mega buck intelligence stating high risk, boils down to NOT taking chances with our own interests. These animals already had a history of fvcking innocent victims. Cutting their balls off before they could do anything else was definitely in OUR best interest.

If everyone reacted like Spain, these rapists would just become strengthened, and emboldened. IMO, we've only stunned the pricks. Pretending they don't exist is NOT going to make them go away.

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: jahawkin
How is this different than the US pulling its military presence from Saudi Arabia?

To me, it's very different. We pulled out of Saudi Arabia because we accomplished our mission there. Saddam is no longer a threat, we completed unfinished business from the 1st war and now our soldiers can leave.

By contrast, pulling out of Iraq now is bad because we have unfinished business there. We need to provide security for that country until things stablize and we can hand off Iraq back to their people.

I was against the 2nd Iraq war because I feared it would make things worse. But I think it would be even worse if we pulled out now. Don't compound a mistake with another mistake.

The thing that bothers me is that some people seem so eager to prove George Bush wrong that they seem to want to see things go bad.

I voted for Gore. I was against the 2nd Iraq War. But now that's it's happened, it too late to go back. We have to see things through. I won't let my pride get in the way (and hope that George Bush is proven wrong). Instead, I hope that George Bush was right all along and that a free and democratic Iraq will help enable a future free of Islamic terrorism.

 

[maddogchen]

Originally posted by: Witling
MadDogChen, Give it a rest. The quote from the Captain's article said,

"A government that had deceived them, that went along with a falsification of information, and a government
that had decided that they would side with the Bush Administrzation against their own populations wishes."

It did not say, as you attempted to imply, that Spain falsified information. Your statement was, "Would you happen to have a link to how Aznar's gov falsified information?" This mistatement is understandable and forgiveable if English is your second language. It's distortion if English isn't your second language.

The majority of opinions on this thread seem to envision only two policies. Fight or capitulate. Someone wisely mentioned just persuing your own interests. Fighting always engenders resistance and retaliation until the cycle can be broken. How well has it worked for Israel?

Ahh i see, took me a few minutes to figure out what you were saying. I mistook his statement of "A government that had deceived them, that went along with a falsification of information" to mean they falisified information about who was responsible for the bombings in order to deceive the people. Instead what he was talking about was the case for Iraq.

But yes, English is my second language.

 

[Sunner]

It's funny how many people from "The greatest democracy on earth" are unable to understand the concept of democracy, the will of the people, etc.
Prior to this attack, ~90% of the Spaniards were against the involvement in Iraq, you may not like it, but that's what the people wanted, and now the new goverment will carry out the will of their people.
Hence, democracy.

Maybe democracy is only good when the majority is with you, Ornery?

 

[Ornery]

Before the attack, the Socialists were significantly behind, and a long shot to be elected. What turned the tide? Yep, now you understand. That pretty much sums it up.

 

[maddogchen]

Anyone post this yet?

CNN has also obtained an al Qaeda document that spells out the terrorist group's plan to separate Spain from the U.S.-led coalition on Iraq.

The document was published on the main message board that is used by al Qaeda and its sympathizers last December.

The strategy spelled out in the document calls for using terrorist attacks to oust Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's Partido Popular from power and replace it with the Socialists.

That, in turn, was expected to drive a wedge between Washington and Madrid and result in the withdrawal of Spanish military forces from Iraq.

"We think the Spanish government will not stand more than two blows, or three at the most, before it will be forced to withdraw because of the public pressure on it," the al Qaeda document says.

"If its forces remain after these blows, the victory of the Socialist Party will be almost guaranteed -- and the withdrawal of Spanish forces will be on its campaign manifesto."

That prediction came to fruition in elections Sunday, with the Socialists unseating the Popular Party three days after near-simultaneous bombings of four trains killed 200 and shocked the nation.

link

Interesting how they were spot on. Smart people these terrorists.

 

[csiro]

Now another terrorist group is threatening France with attacks due to the ban on religious headwear. I wonder if the French will cave to the terrorist demands and repeal the ban if the terrorists manage to succesfully stage an attack inside France.