South Park episode about Mormons

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Cabages

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: Cabages
Its a tough religion to commit too. No sex before marraige, and no drinking are one of the harder things to follow, at least for me.

I thought pre-marital sex was a no-no for pretty much the overwhelming majority of religions around the world?

I know mormons that drink...I was told that it's just advised against.

It might be, im just saying that its hard to follow and commit too.

Its not really advised not too. You cant join the church (be baptised) if you drink, and you cant go to the temple (honestly anway) if you drink. Going to the temple is a BIG deal to Mormons, BTW. Of course, you can stop doing the things your doing and be baptised, but until you choose to stop, you cant. And you can repent and be forgiven and go to the temple.

or, you could just die and be baptized by the Mormons...they don't really care!

It was very nice of them to baptize all of those jewish Hollocaust victims :thumbsup:

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: child of wonder
If you want to know more about Mormonism read about the Mountain Meadows Massacre and the Kinderhook Plates.

And if you want to know more about catholisism read about the spanish inquasition and the dark ages....

Really, if you read about the mountain meadow massacre just remember that it was MEMBERS of the church (not condoned by the church) and they where in a pretty ruff situation. (Wives raped, kicked from their homes multiple times, treated like vermin, and there where reports of an army comming to remove the mormon problem).

Actually, the majority of evidence points to Brigham Young directly handing down the order for the massacre. Can't get any further away from the church's support than that!

 

[DrPizza]

So, uhh, which parts were exaggerated? I remember doing a little bit of googling after watching the episode and saying to myself, "holy ****, that was pretty accurate!"

edit: Zolty posted that article from Wiki about the inaccuracies: "While most of the Mormon history and theology explained in this episode is correct, a few of the episode's details regarding Mormonism are incorrect:" There were only 4 inaccuracies given, and they seem quite trivial compared to most of what was given in the episode.

repeated:
1.The Marshes couldn't have possibly joined the Mormons in 2 days.
2. They had the size wrong on the golden plates
3. Garden of Eden = Independence, Missori. Yes. But Southpark got which Mormon book that states this wrong.

 

[Cabages]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: Cabages

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: Cabages
Its a tough religion to commit too. No sex before marraige, and no drinking are one of the harder things to follow, at least for me.

I thought pre-marital sex was a no-no for pretty much the overwhelming majority of religions around the world?

I know mormons that drink...I was told that it's just advised against.

It might be, im just saying that its hard to follow and commit too.

Its not really advised not too. You cant join the church (be baptised) if you drink, and you cant go to the temple (honestly anway) if you drink. Going to the temple is a BIG deal to Mormons, BTW. Of course, you can stop doing the things your doing and be baptised, but until you choose to stop, you cant. And you can repent and be forgiven and go to the temple.

or, you could just die and be baptized by the Mormons...they don't really care!

It was very nice of them to baptize all of those jewish Hollocaust victims :thumbsup:

They normally only do baptisms for the dead upon request. I dont know the full story of why they started doing them for the victims, I just know they stopped when they were requested to.

 

[compuwiz1]

The day someone produces and shows these plates that were supposed to exist, then I will believe in what the mormons believe in. 🙂

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: Vic
Quick summary: it portrays the typical EX-mormon viewpoint and then apologies for it at the end.

I'm an ex-mormon myself (was born into it), but I left on my own as a teenager, as opposed to be kicked out as an adult like many, so while I have no love for the church, I don't bear it any ill will either.

The beliefs and origins of ALL religions are silly in some form or another (Catholicism has some real whoppers), so IMO there's something ironically hypocritical about picking on the Mormons for their particular silly beliefs and origins.
If I had to point out a particular reason for why I left the church, and why I will never go back, it's the outrageous pressure to conform that the church instills on its members. It's kind of West Texas high school "why aren't you a star on the football team" kind of deal. Simply unreal and absolutely invasive in every aspect of a member's life, from sex to finances. And if it isn't coming from the church itself (in fact, it usually isn't), it's from the other members in the ward.
As I have a rather low respect for authority, I had trouble getting along with that even when I was behaving properly.

well said.

that, and their general anti-intellectual attitude causes many to look down on them.

Right...we hate edumacation...that's why we fund 2 private universities....
edit: and have a "perpetual education fund" to put many many disadvantaged (i.e. poor) member through college...because we just want to stay dumb.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
The day someone produces and shows these plates that were supposed to exist, then I will believe in what the mormons believe in. 🙂

It's called faith....Do you need a physical representation of everything?

 

[amish]

mormons are fine by me. sure they come to my door, but at least they don't come to my door and tell me that only 144,000 are going to make it into heaven after armageddon. :roll: thanks jehova witnesses!

 

[Homerboy]

what was the name of this show please I very much want to watch it!

 

[nweaver]

think you can watch it on pbs.org...it was frontline

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: Vic
Quick summary: it portrays the typical EX-mormon viewpoint and then apologies for it at the end.

I'm an ex-mormon myself (was born into it), but I left on my own as a teenager, as opposed to be kicked out as an adult like many, so while I have no love for the church, I don't bear it any ill will either.

The beliefs and origins of ALL religions are silly in some form or another (Catholicism has some real whoppers), so IMO there's something ironically hypocritical about picking on the Mormons for their particular silly beliefs and origins.
If I had to point out a particular reason for why I left the church, and why I will never go back, it's the outrageous pressure to conform that the church instills on its members. It's kind of West Texas high school "why aren't you a star on the football team" kind of deal. Simply unreal and absolutely invasive in every aspect of a member's life, from sex to finances. And if it isn't coming from the church itself (in fact, it usually isn't), it's from the other members in the ward.
As I have a rather low respect for authority, I had trouble getting along with that even when I was behaving properly.

well said.

that, and their general anti-intellectual attitude causes many to look down on them.

Right...we hate edumacation...that's why we fund 2 private universities....
edit: and have a "perpetual education fund" to put many many disadvantaged (i.e. poor) member through college...because we just want to stay dumb.

There is education and book smarts and then there is common sense. They are sometimes mutually exclusive.

I have a difficult time considering someone gifted with much common sense when they believe they must wear special underwear, give 10% of their income to the church to receive ultimate salvation and godhood, and their faith is derived from a man who sold his treasure finding services via looking at a rock in a hat.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: nweaver
Right...we hate edumacation...that's why we fund 2 private universities....
edit: and have a "perpetual education fund" to put many many disadvantaged (i.e. poor) member through college...because we just want to stay dumb.

Yeah, I don't know where zinfamous got that. Mormons are almost like Asians when it comes to education.

 

[Beau]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: Vic
Quick summary: it portrays the typical EX-mormon viewpoint and then apologies for it at the end.

I'm an ex-mormon myself (was born into it), but I left on my own as a teenager, as opposed to be kicked out as an adult like many, so while I have no love for the church, I don't bear it any ill will either.

The beliefs and origins of ALL religions are silly in some form or another (Catholicism has some real whoppers), so IMO there's something ironically hypocritical about picking on the Mormons for their particular silly beliefs and origins.
If I had to point out a particular reason for why I left the church, and why I will never go back, it's the outrageous pressure to conform that the church instills on its members. It's kind of West Texas high school "why aren't you a star on the football team" kind of deal. Simply unreal and absolutely invasive in every aspect of a member's life, from sex to finances. And if it isn't coming from the church itself (in fact, it usually isn't), it's from the other members in the ward.
As I have a rather low respect for authority, I had trouble getting along with that even when I was behaving properly.

well said.

that, and their general anti-intellectual attitude causes many to look down on them.

Right...we hate edumacation...that's why we fund 2 private universities....
edit: and have a "perpetual education fund" to put many many disadvantaged (i.e. poor) member through college...because we just want to stay dumb.

not to mention the church's general embracing of science over creationism.

I, too, am a member, though I have to admit I don't take it very seriously. The prime difference that appeals to me about mormonism is the prospect of an eternal family. The short story is we believe that through temple ordinances, families can be tied together for all eternity, rather than the common "till death do us part". If it wasn't for that idea, I probably wouldn't be a member. There are just too many questions with bogus answers for it all to be historically correct.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: child of wonder

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: Vic
Quick summary: it portrays the typical EX-mormon viewpoint and then apologies for it at the end.

I'm an ex-mormon myself (was born into it), but I left on my own as a teenager, as opposed to be kicked out as an adult like many, so while I have no love for the church, I don't bear it any ill will either.

The beliefs and origins of ALL religions are silly in some form or another (Catholicism has some real whoppers), so IMO there's something ironically hypocritical about picking on the Mormons for their particular silly beliefs and origins.
If I had to point out a particular reason for why I left the church, and why I will never go back, it's the outrageous pressure to conform that the church instills on its members. It's kind of West Texas high school "why aren't you a star on the football team" kind of deal. Simply unreal and absolutely invasive in every aspect of a member's life, from sex to finances. And if it isn't coming from the church itself (in fact, it usually isn't), it's from the other members in the ward.
As I have a rather low respect for authority, I had trouble getting along with that even when I was behaving properly.

well said.

that, and their general anti-intellectual attitude causes many to look down on them.

Right...we hate edumacation...that's why we fund 2 private universities....
edit: and have a "perpetual education fund" to put many many disadvantaged (i.e. poor) member through college...because we just want to stay dumb.

There is education and book smarts and then there is common sense. They are sometimes mutually exclusive.

I have a difficult time considering someone gifted with much common sense when they believe they must wear special underwear, give 10% of their income to the church to receive ultimate salvation and godhood, and their faith is derived from a man who sold his treasure finding services via looking at a rock in a hat.

most people would consider an "Intellectual" someone who is educated....but hey, I guess if you are born with a PHD, you don't need education, right.

How much of the world has some sort of religious belief? 50%, 75%? but I suppose that you cannot have religion AND common sense, hence more then 2/3rds of the world's people are "dumb"

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: child of wonder
There is education and book smarts and then there is common sense. They are sometimes mutually exclusive.

I have a difficult time considering someone gifted with much common sense when they believe they must wear special underwear, give 10% of their income to the church to receive ultimate salvation and godhood, and their faith is derived from a man who sold his treasure finding services via looking at a rock in a hat.

Heh. This kind of bashing always cracks me up. Those tenets make them absolutely no different than any other religion in the world. The underwear and the tithing come straight from the Old Testament, and Joseph Smith was wierd, whacky, and charismatic just like any other prophet of any other religion. What are you trying to prove? That Mormonism is just like all the rest? 😛

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: child of wonder
If you want to know more about Mormonism read about the Mountain Meadows Massacre and the Kinderhook Plates.

And if you want to know more about catholisism read about the spanish inquasition and the dark ages....

Really, if you read about the mountain meadow massacre just remember that it was MEMBERS of the church (not condoned by the church) and they where in a pretty ruff situation. (Wives raped, kicked from their homes multiple times, treated like vermin, and there where reports of an army comming to remove the mormon problem).

Actually, the majority of evidence points to Brigham Young directly handing down the order for the massacre. Can't get any further away from the church's support than that!

Really, I would like to see some of this "evidence" But in the mean time, I suggest you read
read This, and This. A very comprehensive document about the massacare.

 

[Anonemous]

I wonder if anyone bothered to see the ending of that episode...

 

[MrPickins]

As an ex-LDS member myself, I'd have to say Vic nailed it dead on.

The community is awesome, if overzealous.

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: child of wonder
There is education and book smarts and then there is common sense. They are sometimes mutually exclusive.

I have a difficult time considering someone gifted with much common sense when they believe they must wear special underwear, give 10% of their income to the church to receive ultimate salvation and godhood, and their faith is derived from a man who sold his treasure finding services via looking at a rock in a hat.

most people would consider an "Intellectual" someone who is educated....but hey, I guess if you are born with a PHD, you don't need education, right.

How much of the world has some sort of religious belief? 50%, 75%? but I suppose that you cannot have religion AND common sense, hence more then 2/3rds of the world's people are "dumb"

Not being affiliated with any religion, I certainly do see many people who surrender reason and common sense for the feeling of belonging and importance organized religion provides.

I never spoke the word "intellectual" so I'm not sure where your first sentence is going there.

IMO it's possible to be religious AND have common sense. However, those who fall for so obvious a dupe such as Mormonism, Scientology, etc. forces one to question those individual's common sense.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: child of wonder
IMO it's possible to be religious AND have common sense. However, those who fall for so obvious a dupe such as Mormonism, Scientology, etc. forces one to question those individual's common sense.

Obvious dupe? 😕

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: child of wonder
There is education and book smarts and then there is common sense. They are sometimes mutually exclusive.

I have a difficult time considering someone gifted with much common sense when they believe they must wear special underwear, give 10% of their income to the church to receive ultimate salvation and godhood, and their faith is derived from a man who sold his treasure finding services via looking at a rock in a hat.

Heh. This kind of bashing always cracks me up. Those tenets make them absolutely no different than any other religion in the world. The underwear and the tithing come straight from the Old Testament, and Joseph Smith was wierd, whacky, and charismatic just like any other prophet of any other religion. What are you trying to prove? That Mormonism is just like all the rest? 😛

I suppose I'm only trying to point out how obviously false or, at the least, how fundamentally human(fallible), fabricated, and flawed the religion is.

Many other religions fall under this category but some stand out more than others, Mormonism included.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: child of wonder

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: child of wonder
There is education and book smarts and then there is common sense. They are sometimes mutually exclusive.

I have a difficult time considering someone gifted with much common sense when they believe they must wear special underwear, give 10% of their income to the church to receive ultimate salvation and godhood, and their faith is derived from a man who sold his treasure finding services via looking at a rock in a hat.

Heh. This kind of bashing always cracks me up. Those tenets make them absolutely no different than any other religion in the world. The underwear and the tithing come straight from the Old Testament, and Joseph Smith was wierd, whacky, and charismatic just like any other prophet of any other religion. What are you trying to prove? That Mormonism is just like all the rest? 😛

I suppose I'm only trying to point out how obviously false or, at the least, how fundamentally human(fallible), fabricated, and flawed the religion is.

Many other religions fall under this category but some stand out more than others, Mormonism included.

All religions are "fundamentally human(fallible), fabricated, and flawed." Picking on one over another makes no sense. It's like you're looking for excuses to say why Mormonism is worse than other religions based solely on history and theology, all of which is truly irrelevant. If someone wants God, they can find Him on their own, no church required.
Religions are about the community, or "fellowship" as they typically call it. In that regards, Mormonism is among the best if you're into that kind of thing (as already stated above, I most certainly am NOT into that kind of thing).
I already pointed out the drawbacks of the Mormon church for what real churchgoers actually care about, which is that their fellowship is nosy, strict, demanding, and gossipy. If you like that sort of thing, great, as theirs comes with many rewards (church welfare assistance, education, job placement, etc., they look after their own like no other, which goes hand in hand with how demanding they are as well) . If not, look for your fellowship elsewhere, as it will be no fun for you at all.
If you're really truly interested in the theology, and want/need one to believe in, then Mormonism rocks there as well. No hell, perfectly just God, live a clean life, live with your family and loved ones forever and ever, eternal progression, become like God, happy happy joy joy, etc. until you want to puke. Some religions promise "treasures in Heaven," Mormonism promises Heaven itself, now and then, here and there. So if you're looking for a religious fairy tale, it just doesn't get any better.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: Vic
Quick summary: it portrays the typical EX-mormon viewpoint and then apologies for it at the end.

I'm an ex-mormon myself (was born into it), but I left on my own as a teenager, as opposed to be kicked out as an adult like many, so while I have no love for the church, I don't bear it any ill will either.

The beliefs and origins of ALL religions are silly in some form or another (Catholicism has some real whoppers), so IMO there's something ironically hypocritical about picking on the Mormons for their particular silly beliefs and origins.
If I had to point out a particular reason for why I left the church, and why I will never go back, it's the outrageous pressure to conform that the church instills on its members. It's kind of West Texas high school "why aren't you a star on the football team" kind of deal. Simply unreal and absolutely invasive in every aspect of a member's life, from sex to finances. And if it isn't coming from the church itself (in fact, it usually isn't), it's from the other members in the ward.
As I have a rather low respect for authority, I had trouble getting along with that even when I was behaving properly.

well said.

that, and their general anti-intellectual attitude causes many to look down on them.

Right...we hate edumacation...that's why we fund 2 private universities....
edit: and have a "perpetual education fund" to put many many disadvantaged (i.e. poor) member through college...because we just want to stay dumb.

I'm talking about intellectualism, not education. These are different things. Specifically, how the church frowns on attempts of objective portrayals of their history. Sure, if reading books is education that's fine; but being told what books you can and can't read is anti-intellectualism. Plenty of the most educated mormons have been excommunicated for reading "too much." I've known some pretty smart Mormons; the question is, "what were they allowed to learn?"

Anyway, I don't want to discredit the Mormon church's vast charity and social work. I have a lot of respect for that, and honestly, far more respect now than I ever thought I could give to the sect.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Anybody see the PBS special about Mormonism last night? Scar stuff.

What was "scary" about it?

They apparently "excommunicate" a lot of people. This one woman, who was a devout Mormon, was excomunicated for not being your usual submissive female. She was a feminist of sorts, and was saying that women used to be priests. The head mormons in charge weren't have any of that business.

She attended this trial thing, where she sat alone in a chair,and 12 dudes just basically told her she wasn't a true mormon, etc. They didn't let her defend herself, then they said "Bye, you're gone." basically telling her she was to suffer eternal damnation. This also created tension within her family. She wasn't even allowed to take the usual part in funeral traditions after her sister died.

But as Vic has said in this thread, every religion has its craziness. Thats one reason I don't belong to any specific religion.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: child of wonder
If you want to know more about Mormonism read about the Mountain Meadows Massacre and the Kinderhook Plates.

And if you want to know more about catholisism read about the spanish inquasition and the dark ages....

Really, if you read about the mountain meadow massacre just remember that it was MEMBERS of the church (not condoned by the church) and they where in a pretty ruff situation. (Wives raped, kicked from their homes multiple times, treated like vermin, and there where reports of an army comming to remove the mormon problem).

Actually, the majority of evidence points to Brigham Young directly handing down the order for the massacre. Can't get any further away from the church's support than that!

Really, I would like to see some of this "evidence" But in the mean time, I suggest you read
read This, and This. A very comprehensive document about the massacare.

sure, I'll take a gander. Then I'll find an objective source 🙂 You realize of course, that those sources are screened carefully by the LDS before publication.