South Korea to get 300/450 mbs LTE mobile data connections

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
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http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/20/sk-telecom-lte-a-300-mbps/?ncid=rss_truncated


This is embarrassing. America invented the internet, but we're turning into a 3rd world country internet provider compared to other developed nations. We gave billions of dollars, no strings attached to telecom companies to build out fiber, but they just pocketed the money. Meanwhile, European/Asian countries which are more accepting of collectivist policies, built out broadband networks that are the envy of the world, thanks to good private/government partnerships, article here:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/...y-have-more-fiber/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0


In the paradises of broadband — Japan, South Korea and Sweden — nearly everyone can surf far faster and far cheaper than anyone in the United States. What is their secret sauce and how can we get some?

The short answer is that broadband deployment in those countries was spurred by a combination of heavy government involvement, subsidies and lower corporate profits that may be tough for the economic and political system in the United States to accept. Those countries have also tried to encourage demand for broadband by paying schools, hospitals and other institutions to use high-speed Internet services.

Sweden has built one of the fastest and most widely deployed broadband networks in Europe because its government granted tax breaks for infrastructure investments, directly subsidized rural deployment, and, perhaps most significantly, required state-owned municipal utilities to create local backbone networks, reducing the cost for the local telephone company to provide service.

Japan let telecommunications companies write down about one-third of their investment in broadband the first year, rather than the usual policy, which requires them to spread the deductions over 22 years. The Japanese government also subsidized low-cost loans for broadband construction and paid for part of the wiring of rural areas.

“The return to fiber takes time,” said Dave Burstein, the editor of the DSL Prime newsletter, in an e-mail message. “Governments can invest thinking 10 and 20 years, but few companies can. So putting the expensive part (ditch-digging) under the government in some form has good logic. Then you have the companies compete at an upper layer where the investment required is not so intimidating.”

In many countries, especially in Asia, government assistance has gone hand in hand with an expectation that private companies will accept lower profit margins in order to assist in achieving the national broadband goals.

“The South Korean government expects its private companies to drive the investment in broadband infrastructure with government support in the form of loans and tax subsidies as their incentive,” wrote the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation in a report last year.

There are only a handful of major projects worldwide to build fiber lines to homes that don’t involve significant government aid of some sort, Mr. Burstein said, including Verizon’s FiOS and Iliad’s fiber network in some large French cities.

Don’t count out “national pride” as a partial explanation for the creation of high-speed networks in Asia, Mr. Burstein wrote me:

Japan then got serious about fiber because they couldn’t accept Korea being ahead, and similarly in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, and now Malaysia. Singapore wants to pull ahead again, so they decided to go to 1 gigabit (shared) fiber with really intense regulation.

What lessons are there in all this for the United States, which historically has had an aversion to Asian-style industrial policy?

Finding a way to bring broadband to remote and rural locations where it is simply uneconomic for commercial companies to string wires is one clear option. Much of the $7 billion for broadband in the stimulus bill is allocated to this, but more will likely be needed to get the sort of universal coverage that Sweden and some other countries have.

The government also could help the people who don’t use the Internet because they don’t have the skills or even have a computer. The stimulus bill has some money for this. There are also some proposals to redirect some of the Universal Service Fund money now used to pay the operating costs of rural phone companies to rural broadband providers.

And of course if regulators can find a way to increase competition and lower the price of broadband, more people would no doubt sign up. Studies have shown that people in the United States with incomes under $50,000 are far less likely to have broadband service than those who earn more. Some argue that devoting more spectrum to wireless data services may also create more competition, but there is quite a debate about whether wireless service can match the speed and cost of cable or fiber.

But the biggest question is whether the country needs to actually provide subsidies or tax breaks to the telephone and cable companies to increase the speeds of their existing broadband service, other than in rural areas. Many people served by Verizon and Comcast are likely to have the option to get super-fast service very soon. But people whose cable and phone companies are in more financial trouble, such as Qwest Communications and Charter Communications, may well be in the slow lane to fast surfing. Still, it’s a good bet that all the cable companies will eventually get around to upgrading to the faster Docsis 3 standard and the phone companies will be forced to upgrade their networks to compete.

The lesson from the rest of the world is that if the Obama administration really wants to bring very-high-speed Internet access to most people faster than the leisurely pace of the market, it will most likely have to bring out the taxpayers’ checkbook.

I find it interesting that Asian countries find it intolerable that their neighbors would have faster internet access and their governments try to one up each other. Wish our government thought like that.
 
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DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
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Are you even able to view the full picture in context or are you going to only provide what fits your narrative?

For example what does their ISP market look like in terms of competitors? Are these ISP's allowed to lock in regional monopolies backed by local governments blessings via political donations or are these ISP's forced to compete in a open and free market?, etc.

Come on you can do it, just put some effort into it.....oh who I'm I kidding. lol
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
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I wish our government thought.

It's a bit like this-

"“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”

Most people and governments stay inside with the doors bolted.
 

gevorg

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2004
5,075
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America is too big. Banks are too big to fail. Land is too big for fast internets.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
300Mbps is all fine and dandy but where exactly do you think you are going to download at that rate from? Netflix is already unable to upload at a rate to meet demand. Most other servers across the world choke off downloads just too keep up with demand. You can have the fastest car in the world, you are still stuck in the same traffic jam everyone else is.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
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I've often wondered what some of the expert consultants and government workers from the Scandinavian countries and Germany would propose to fix problems in the US such as health care, erosion of middle class, higher education, and why my Seattle Mariners continue to suck despite a willingness to spend money.

Or for another example, how a company such as Deutch Telekom would bring our internet infrastructure into the 20th century.

I don't suggest they have all the answers nor do they live in utopia, but in some areas they seem to excel and if we could leverage their expertise to help us, why not?

A pipe dream perhaps, but the proposals from some of these countries on what the USA could do to fix certain problems would be quite interesting to read.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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I've often wondered what some of the expert consultants and government workers from the Scandinavian countries and Germany would propose to fix problems in the US such as health care, erosion of middle class, higher education, and why my Seattle Mariners continue to suck despite a willingness to spend money.

Or for another example, how a company such as Deutch Telekom would bring our internet infrastructure into the 20th century.

I don't suggest they have all the answers nor do they live in utopia, but in some areas they seem to excel and if we could leverage their expertise to help us, why not?

A pipe dream perhaps, but the proposals from some of these countries on what the USA could do to fix certain problems would be quite interesting to read.

You have a 5000 square foot home and a gallon of paint. How does the German get that done without more paint?

It's not a matter of expertise. We have all the technical knowledge necessary, but if you look at geographic population distribution you'd see that the South Koreans, the Chinese, Japanese and on and on would be saying "crap how do we do this economically?". Therein lies the problem.
 

mikegg

Golden Member
Jan 30, 2010
1,779
413
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300Mbps is all fine and dandy but where exactly do you think you are going to download at that rate from? Netflix is already unable to upload at a rate to meet demand. Most other servers across the world choke off downloads just too keep up with demand. You can have the fastest car in the world, you are still stuck in the same traffic jam everyone else is.

I'd imagine they have super fast servers in South Korea too? I mean if it's so cheap for a fast home connection then professional connections should be proportionally cheap.

Also, Netflix and other companies use CDNs. They have servers all over the world and serve the closest server to your location. I'm sure if Netflix has a server in South Korea, they'll host their content in South Korea.
 

mikegg

Golden Member
Jan 30, 2010
1,779
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At 450mbps, you'll burn through 2GB data allowance in 36 seconds.

To be fair, it doesn't take long to burn through your monthly cap on U.S. LTE. That's why I shrug at ads that claim they have the fastest LTE. Who gives a shit if you run out so fast?
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
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300Mbps is all fine and dandy but where exactly do you think you are going to download at that rate from? Netflix is already unable to upload at a rate to meet demand. Most other servers across the world choke off downloads just too keep up with demand. You can have the fastest car in the world, you are still stuck in the same traffic jam everyone else is.

Yes, I agree. I remember my first hard drive - a 20 Megabyte Seagate MFM drive. I remember saying at that time that I would never need that much space my entire life. In that respect, we will never need that much speed....never.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
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Yes, I agree. I remember my first hard drive - a 20 Megabyte Seagate MFM drive. I remember saying at that time that I would never need that much space my entire life. In that respect, we will never need that much speed....never.
But when you got that a 1TB hard drive would have been completely worthless.

At this point 300 mbps for any consumer on the planet is utterly and massively pointless. That's enough to stream 4k video at native compression, something not a single service on the planet offers. It really is like having a top fuel dragster in gridlock traffic. I don't think anybody would notice it for anything; it won't lower ping, load web pages faster to a degree detectable by a person. It will have value eventually, but not for a while. At some point there appears to me no need to keep increasing speeds. If you can stream a flawless video at crazy resolution to your phone, for example, what could that phone ever need in the way of more bandwidth?
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
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But when you got that a 1TB hard drive would have been completely worthless.

At this point 300 mbps for any consumer on the planet is utterly and massively pointless. That's enough to stream 4k video at native compression, something not a single service on the planet offers. It really is like having a top fuel dragster in gridlock traffic. I don't think anybody would notice it for anything; it won't lower ping, load web pages faster to a degree detectable by a person. It will have value eventually, but not for a while. At some point there appears to me no need to keep increasing speeds. If you can stream a flawless video at crazy resolution to your phone, for example, what could that phone ever need in the way of more bandwidth?

All I'll say is that the internet isn't just about streaming video (which seems to be the consensus from many 'technical' people here on AT).
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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America is too big. Banks are too big to fail. Land is too big for fast internets.

Sure, using a country like South Korea (the size of the U.S. state of Indiana, with 20% of the population concentrated in Seoul) makes for a great baseline to compare how easy it would be to scale up infrastructure to a continental sized nation like the U.S.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
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Sure, using a country like South Korea (the size of the U.S. state of Indiana, with 20% of the population concentrated in Seoul) makes for a great baseline to compare how easy it would be to scale up infrastructure to a continental sized nation like the U.S.

Nobody said that the entire US had to be instantly transformed. The population centers of the US could be scaled up similar to other countries but they are not even close. The rest of the world sees the internet as infrastructure.....the US sees it as milking profit for as long and as much as possible before doing any significant upgrades and on top of that, lobbies to make sure that it stays that way (i.e. blocking competition from doing it).
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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At this point 300 mbps for any consumer on the planet is utterly and massively pointless. That's enough to stream 4k video at native compression, something not a single service on the planet offers.

Not to mention that mobile devices lack the ability to display 4K video. And it would provide no practical quality benefit on a mobile device.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,382
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Sure, using a country like South Korea (the size of the U.S. state of Indiana, with 20% of the population concentrated in Seoul) makes for a great baseline to compare how easy it would be to scale up infrastructure to a continental sized nation like the U.S.

Agreed but that is not to say there aren't issues with the US ISP services. I think a baseline using similarly sized cities might be more accurate along with notes on pricing and government funding for additional context
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Agreed but that is not to say there aren't issues with the US ISP services. I think a baseline using similarly sized cities might be more accurate along with notes on pricing and government funding for additional context

I would think the more important question is are users in major US cities facing practical limits on their data connection speeds.

Could it be that since US carriers are more motivated by profit they will only build infrastructure that is demanded?

As opposed to say Asian countries who appear to be having a penis size competition:
Don’t count out “national pride” as a partial explanation for the creation of high-speed networks in Asia, Mr. Burstein wrote me:

Japan then got serious about fiber because they couldn’t accept Korea being ahead, and similarly in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, and now Malaysia. Singapore wants to pull ahead again, so they decided to go to 1 gigabit (shared) fiber with really intense regulation.
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
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But when you got that a 1TB hard drive would have been completely worthless.

At this point 300 mbps for any consumer on the planet is utterly and massively pointless. That's enough to stream 4k video at native compression, something not a single service on the planet offers. It really is like having a top fuel dragster in gridlock traffic. I don't think anybody would notice it for anything; it won't lower ping, load web pages faster to a degree detectable by a person. It will have value eventually, but not for a while. At some point there appears to me no need to keep increasing speeds. If you can stream a flawless video at crazy resolution to your phone, for example, what could that phone ever need in the way of more bandwidth?

Radios are shared communication channels. 300Mbps LTE means a single user is done faster. That means that more users can use the service in any given time interval. It's probably just good business sense for the telcos to upgrade capacity.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
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Radios are shared communication channels. 300Mbps LTE means a single user is done faster. That means that more users can use the service in any given time interval. It's probably just good business sense for the telcos to upgrade capacity.

Are you sure?

That follows a similar effort by CSL in Hong Kong, which achieved the same speed by combining two 20MHz LTE bands. However, SK and U+ will use so-called LTE-Advanced 3-band carrier aggregation tech, marrying three bands to achieve the higher speeds

Seems like they are combining bands. Wouldn't that reduce the number of users they can service at one time?
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
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Are you sure?



Seems like they are combining bands. Wouldn't that reduce the number of users they can service at one time?

I could be wrong, if they're separate channels than it would make sense that they could get the same capacity going serial or parallel. The only advantage would be if somehow the aggregate bandwidth was higher in the combined bands than in the separate bands.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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The point is other countries have a strategy to bring broadband to as many people as possible as affordably as possible. US has a strategy of maximizing profits of one or two providers in each area that buy politicians along the way.