South Korea/North Korea Engaged In Military Posturing

[Craig234]

Not in Craig234's world, where evil dictators who slaughter millions are just misunderstood, but any republican who votes against certain legislation is a traitor that deserves being sent to the gulag.

You're an idiot, and a liar. But the right continues its 100% rate of lying about my position, adding more examples

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The death spiral continues.

 

[rudder]

All countries have it. If you think for a minute US is free from this torture system you really need to wake up.

Well actually here in the U.S. we have rights. Sure there are instances where people get ruffed up by law enforcement officials, and occasionally there is a death involved. What would you think if 10,000 people were killed here every year because they bad mouthed the president?

The prison system here in the U.S. houses criminals convicted by the judicial system for various crimes including drugs, murder, rape assault, theft, etc. The gulag system is used by craig234's friend to maintain control over political enemies. People in the U.S. are not raped, tortured, and murdered because they speak out against the government.

 

[Craig234]

Well actually here in the U.S. we have rights. Sure there are instances where people get ruffed up by law enforcement officials, and occasionally there is a death involved. What would you think if 10,000 people were killed here every year because they bad mouthed the president?

The prison system here in the U.S. houses criminals convicted by the judicial system for various crimes including drugs, murder, rape assault, theft, etc. The gulag system is used by craig234's friend to maintain control over political enemies. People in the U.S. are not raped, tortured, and murdered because they speak out against the government.

You're an idiot and a liar. The right's 100% rate of lying about my position conitnues, and adds another example.

 

[BoberFett]

You're amusing Craig, keep up the antics. It's good for a laugh.

 

[rudder]

You're an idiot and a liar. The right's 100% rate of lying about my position conitnues, and adds another example.

mmmkay. You have convinced me. I should listen to you rather than the many. many reputable sources that say you are full of bovine scat.

Nah. That is too easy. Can you show me where I am wrong about the North Korean gulag system first? And remember it was you who called me an idiot... so I expect something riveting.

 

[werepossum]

Really? Is this why they have an extensive gulag system to torture their own people? Give me one good reason for that.

I guess all the data about trade with China increasing from a few hundred million in 1995 to $1.6 billion in 2003 is bogus. And what about the negligible coal exports to China in 1995 that now are probably above 3 million tons a year? I bet that nice Kim Jong Il provides those people pulling all that coal from the ground excellent pay and benefits.

Why on Earth would you choose to be exposed to this kind of idiocy? Put these people on ignore and when you see his name, just imagine an attack on America, Western culture, Republicans or conservatives (which is everything right of Castro before he sold out to the corporations) and supporting terrorists, mass murdering dictators, Democrats and liberals, coupled with some name-calling. It's easy in the context of the thread, you lose nothing in content, and you'll have the gist of his response. Just plug in the most ridiculous inanity imaginable and blame the West/USA/Republicans and you'll never be far wrong. Honestly, arguing with this guy is like arguing with fungus. And not potentially useful fungi like penicillium or mushrooms, but the kind that takes professionals with chemicals you can't even pronounce to stop it from eating your brain.

 

[shiner]

The death spiral continues.

Survival Kit contents check. In them you will find: one 45 caliber automatic, two boxes of ammunition, four days concentrated emergency rations, one drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine, vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills, one miniature combination Rooshan phrase book and Bible, one hundred dollars in rubles, one hundred dollars in gold, nine packs of chewing gum, one issue of prophylactics, three lipsticks, three pair of nylon stockings ...shoot, a fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff....

 

[Craig234]

mmmkay. You have convinced me. I should listen to you rather than the many. many reputable sources that say you are full of bovine scat.

Nah. That is too easy. Can you show me where I am wrong about the North Korean gulag system first? And remember it was you who called me an idiot... so I expect something riveting.

Sure. What I said was North Korea is an "evil dictatorship". That includes the gulag system. You lied about what I said. Badly.

If I said Hitler did not kill JFK, did I just say the Holocaust didn't happen?

By your reasoning, I did.

Even when I tell you exactly what you did wrong - lie about my position - you respond cluelessly not about that but asking me to debunk gulags in a nation I said is an evil dictatorship.

Now, you should be able to admit that asking me to deunk gulags and your other lies about my position were idiotic. We'll see if you are able.

 

[rudder]

Sure. What I said was North Korea is an "evil dictatorship". That includes the gulag system. You lied about what I said. Badly.

If I said Hitler did not kill JFK, did I just say the Holocaust didn't happen?

By your reasoning, I did.

Even when I tell you exactly what you did wrong - lie about my position - you respond cluelessly not about that but asking me to debunk gulags in a nation I said is an evil dictatorship.

Now, you should be able to admit that asking me to deunk gulags and your other lies about my position were idiotic. We'll see if you are able.

I admit...my position is you are truly ignorant. You said (and I quote)...You're an idiot and a liar. The right's 100% rate of lying about my position conitnues, and adds another example.


Which was into my response to AZN saying the U.S. prisons were no different that North Korea's slave labor camps.

Don't be so 'liberal' with your use of quotes. When you use them in the original text:

What you don't hear about the conflict every day: while North Korea is led by 'evil dictators' shut off from the world, they have a couple very good reasons for doing what they do.

I know you are inferring that it is the west labeling Kim Jong Il an evil dictator. I do also hope you realize there is no such thing as a non-evil dictator.

But that is an aside. Your are totally off base regarding North Korea. The North Korean leaders modeled their government off the stalinists in the Soviet Union. It was these inefficiencies in the management of North Koreas resources (natural, labor, etc) that have caused the nation it's problems. Yes there was a natural disaster caused famine... but the world came to North Koreas aid providing food. Years of agriculture mismanagement caused a severe crisis when the famine occured. Prior to the famine, the Soviet Union broke up and they stopped supporting NK with subsidized exports and demanding hard currency for goods. This is what killed the NK economy along with China effectively doing the same.

NK's problems even predate the Korean war. The south saw a large number of Norther refugees that were fleeing the "Army First" ideology of the NK government prior to the war. NK's leaders have used this strong military to control thier failed state (hence the gulag system to provide slave labor, place fear in the people, and get rid of political opponents).

How you can say that the U.S. placing nukes in North Korea is the reason they are in their current shape is well... ludicrous. That is almost like me saying Hitler did not kill JFK so the holocaust did not happen.

 

[AzN]

Standard scaremongering and ignorant conjecture. N Korea has antiquated weaponry and lacks the capability to produce or buy more. They also lack the food and fuel resources to fight a modern conflict. Their airforce is a joke. While they have demonstrated a nuclear capability, that doesn't mean they have a device they can deliver other than by truck.

What they do have is decent military intelligence, which indicates that they don't want to start anything stupid. Otherwise, they would have.

Hilarious that you think NK isn't capable of short range missile capabilities other than needing a truck to deliver a nuke? lol

When it comes to pure numbers NK has more army at disposal. Although out dated it's sheer numbers and old equipment would take out majority of SK forces and citizens at first strike as majority live in Seoul. The fact that N Koreans doesn't look any different than S. Koreans is where the guerrilla warfare would erupt from both sides.

NK doesn't start shit because of foreign powers. The fact that US doesn't start shit is the same reason. Otherwise, US would have.

 

[AzN]

Well actually here in the U.S. we have rights. Sure there are instances where people get ruffed up by law enforcement officials, and occasionally there is a death involved. What would you think if 10,000 people were killed here every year because they bad mouthed the president?

The prison system here in the U.S. houses criminals convicted by the judicial system for various crimes including drugs, murder, rape assault, theft, etc. The gulag system is used by craig234's friend to maintain control over political enemies. People in the U.S. are not raped, tortured, and murdered because they speak out against the government.

In the US we don't really have rights. You just think you do. Some of you have more rights than others as with any other country. US is more lenient when it comes to some things I have to agree but US is police state that needs to watch it's citizens.

 

[AzN]

The US doesn't institutionalize it. If you think the US and NK are all that similar, head on over and let us know.

I'm Korean. I would have no problems heading over.

 

[StageLeft]

NK is probably the most evil government on the planet right now. And I do mean evil.

NK gov does this of course because they have been well rewarded for this behavior in the past and in the end the top tiers of leadership continues to live in a country secure from dissent and they get to have their nice couches and food while the majority of the population are in varying levels of destitution. They don't need to win a war with SK and probably wouldn't (even without international assistance which of course would be on SK's side). They just need to seem crazy enough that they MIGHT try one and everybody bends over and tells them to go ahead.

NK--and by NK of course I mean only the top levels of its government--have nothing in the world to gain by a recurrence of the war and thus will not start one. They have sabre rattled for years and will keep doing it because it works very well for them.

BTW the idea that NK is still suffering from a natural disaster many years ago is rather silly. Most people in NK suffer because the economy is absolute sh*t because the world treats NK like the ugly duckling, so as with any good dictatorship the few at the top live well and those below take the brunt of it.

 

[StageLeft]

In the US we don't really have rights. You just think you do. Some of you have more rights than others as with any other country. US is more lenient when it comes to some things I have to agree but US is police state that needs to watch it's citizens.

Please stop. Trying to draw a similarity between a person's rights in the US and NK makes you look retarded. The US has problems but you are ridiculous to pretend people in the US don't have rights. What you are saying right here and now would get you a visit by the police in NK if I reported you. Maybe some time in the reeducation Gulag if you're lucky. If not and they think you're beyond hope you'll just be put into one of the non-reeducation camps where they don't even bother trying to "fix" you and instead work you until you die.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm Korean. I would have no problems heading over.

That's cool. Just don't talk about your leaders there. Here you can get away with it. There, you might just become "re-educated"

 

[woolfe9999]

Sure. What I said was North Korea is an "evil dictatorship". That includes the gulag system. You lied about what I said. Badly.

If I said Hitler did not kill JFK, did I just say the Holocaust didn't happen?

By your reasoning, I did.

Even when I tell you exactly what you did wrong - lie about my position - you respond cluelessly not about that but asking me to debunk gulags in a nation I said is an evil dictatorship.

Now, you should be able to admit that asking me to deunk gulags and your other lies about my position were idiotic. We'll see if you are able.

Craig, maybe next time you shouldn't put the term evil dictatorhship into quotes. It came off as sneer quotes to me. Or better yet, if you are going to offer justifications for their actions, you might also get specific about the bad things they have done. Honestly, your post did come off as apologia for the NK government, whether you intended it or not.

- wolf

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Craig, maybe next time you shouldn't put the term evil dictatorhship into quotes. It came off as sneer quotes to me. Or better yet, if you are going to offer justifications for their actions, you might also get specific about the bad things they have done. Honestly, your post did come off as apologia for the NK government, whether you intended it or not.

- wolf

Be careful. You are entering idiot and liar territory now. :awe::biggrin:

 

[Ozoned]

I admit...my position is you are truly ignorant. You said (and I quote)...You're an idiot and a liar. The right's 100% rate of lying about my position conitnues, and adds another example.


Which was into my response to AZN saying the U.S. prisons were no different that North Korea's slave labor camps.

Don't be so 'liberal' with your use of quotes. When you use them in the original text:

What you don't hear about the conflict every day: while North Korea is led by 'evil dictators' shut off from the world, they have a couple very good reasons for doing what they do.

I know you are inferring that it is the west labeling Kim Jong Il an evil dictator. I do also hope you realize there is no such thing as a non-evil dictator.

But that is an aside. Your are totally off base regarding North Korea. The North Korean leaders modeled their government off the stalinists in the Soviet Union. It was these inefficiencies in the management of North Koreas resources (natural, labor, etc) that have caused the nation it's problems. Yes there was a natural disaster caused famine... but the world came to North Koreas aid providing food. Years of agriculture mismanagement caused a severe crisis when the famine occured. Prior to the famine, the Soviet Union broke up and they stopped supporting NK with subsidized exports and demanding hard currency for goods. This is what killed the NK economy along with China effectively doing the same.

NK's problems even predate the Korean war. The south saw a large number of Norther refugees that were fleeing the "Army First" ideology of the NK government prior to the war. NK's leaders have used this strong military to control thier failed state (hence the gulag system to provide slave labor, place fear in the people, and get rid of political opponents).

How you can say that the U.S. placing nukes in North Korea is the reason they are in their current shape is well... ludicrous. That is almost like me saying Hitler did not kill JFK so the holocaust did not happen.

Very good reponse!

 

[Jhhnn]

Hilarious that you think NK isn't capable of short range missile capabilities other than needing a truck to deliver a nuke? lol

Just being realistic. NKorea has demonstrated what is likely a non-deliverable device, and it was a fizzle. Early designs are quite large and heavy, on the order of 10,000lbs, and there's no reason to believe that they've achieved much in the way of miniaturization. None of their military aircraft can deliver such a payload, to my knowledge, and a scud probably wouldn't be able to lift it off the ground.

Despite their numerical superiority, DPRK forces are no match for the ROK's all weather airforce, modern weapons systems, and the most comprehensive defense in depth system ever devised. Survivability of DPRK forces approaches zero in any sort of attack scenario. Leaving their fortifications to attack across the DMZ would be suicidal. As I offered earlier, they're entirely cognizant of that, and of the consequences of using nuclear weapons against a US ally, assuming they could even deliver any. The only scenario where they have nothing to lose would be if they were in imminent danger of being overrun, and that won't happen unless they attack the ROK.

 

[Udgnim]

meh all posturing that will not escalate to war

 

[AzN]

Just being realistic. NKorea has demonstrated what is likely a non-deliverable device, and it was a fizzle. Early designs are quite large and heavy, on the order of 10,000lbs, and there's no reason to believe that they've achieved much in the way of miniaturization. None of their military aircraft can deliver such a payload, to my knowledge, and a scud probably wouldn't be able to lift it off the ground.

Despite their numerical superiority, DPRK forces are no match for the ROK's all weather airforce, modern weapons systems, and the most comprehensive defense in depth system ever devised. Survivability of DPRK forces approaches zero in any sort of attack scenario. Leaving their fortifications to attack across the DMZ would be suicidal. As I offered earlier, they're entirely cognizant of that, and of the consequences of using nuclear weapons against a US ally, assuming they could even deliver any. The only scenario where they have nothing to lose would be if they were in imminent danger of being overrun, and that won't happen unless they attack the ROK.

No you are not being realistic. NK has short missile capabilities that can easily hit all of SK. Nukes alone can win a war. US sure did it with Japan and NK can do the same with SK.

 

[AzN]

That's cool. Just don't talk about your leaders there. Here you can get away with it. There, you might just become "re-educated"

I would follow their laws just like I follow your laws here. Just because rules are different doesn't mean a damn thing to me. If anything I would get along with other Koreans than here.

 

[AzN]

Please stop. Trying to draw a similarity between a person's rights in the US and NK makes you look retarded. The US has problems but you are ridiculous to pretend people in the US don't have rights. What you are saying right here and now would get you a visit by the police in NK if I reported you. Maybe some time in the reeducation Gulag if you're lucky. If not and they think you're beyond hope you'll just be put into one of the non-reeducation camps where they don't even bother trying to "fix" you and instead work you until you die.

I see similarities between the 2 police like states except US has more gadgets to police a lot harder than NK can. Your people have reported me plenty of times. I don't know about Koreans reporting me because well I'm Korean and more lenient towards me than you would.

 

[rudder]

Very good reponse!

Thank you. It served it's intended purpose and scared off Craig234.