South Korea/North Korea Engaged In Military Posturing

[rudder]

I see similarities between the 2 police like states except US has more gadgets to police a lot harder than NK can. Your people have reported me plenty of times. I don't know about Koreans reporting me because well I'm Korean and more lenient towards me than you would.

Stop! You are ruining the stereotype I have of Asians as being very bright.

 

[StageLeft]

No you are not being realistic. NK has short missile capabilities that can easily hit all of SK. Nukes alone can win a war. US sure did it with Japan and NK can do the same with SK.

First, they don't have many nukes. Second, SK by proxy has many magnitudes more.

Just because rules are different doesn't mean a damn thing to me.

Then you are an ungrateful sh*t who is an offense to not only Americans but also North Koreans who live under the yoke of starvation and oppression by making light of what they go through by drawing similarities where they don't exist.

I see similarities between the 2 police like states except US has more gadgets to police a lot harder than NK can. Your people have reported me plenty of times. I don't know about Koreans reporting me because well I'm Korean and more lenient towards me than you would.

Insanity bolded for lulz.

 

[Schadenfroh]

No you are not being realistic. NK has short missile capabilities that can easily hit all of SK. Nukes alone can win a war. US sure did it with Japan and NK can do the same with SK.

SK is under our nuclear umbrella. Any nation that nukes South Korea, gets turned to glass by US retaliation. The difference being, there is almost a zero percent chance of a fizzle from our missiles and we have plenty to send, thanks to our rivalry with the Soviets. The explosions will also be far more potent than anything NK can come up with. BTW, nukes alone did not defeat Japan. Operation Downfall would have taken care of them as well and their empire in the pacific was destroyed before the bombs were dropped. They were still on the mainland (China, Korea), but US and friends were coming for their home islands.

 

[Craig234]

Craig, maybe next time you shouldn't put the term evil dictatorhship into quotes. It came off as sneer quotes to me. Or better yet, if you are going to offer justifications for their actions, you might also get specific about the bad things they have done. Honestly, your post did come off as apologia for the NK government, whether you intended it or not.

- wolf

It's fair enough that the quotes were misunderstood - something easily cleared up in an exchange.

Look ing back at it, I can see how it would easily be misunderstood, and that was not the intent.

To be clear, I meant North Korea is an evil disctatorship as a literal statement. You can find all klinds of history for the current ruler and his father of massacres and much more.

Having said that, when I'm rebutting something, I'm not in the habit of making a speech on the other side - it's quite a bit of overhead to have to do every time, and sets a precedent that if I don't make such a speech, it must be because every other view on the topic is consistent with that one point. There's enough dishonest making up my views - this thead not included about the double quotes - that it doesn't need to be complicated.

If someone says "the USSR entered WWII at the last minute after the US won it to grab land", I'd post a correction of what the bugget of truth was in that with the major error, without an essay on why I think the USSR had all kinds of bad points and was a tyranny, and no one is justified to interpret the lack of that essay as being unconditionally supportive of the USSR, the sort of thing some do.

This was a one-off that the quotes were easy to misunderstand. People are welcome to ask for clarifcation if they're unclear on an opinion.

The 'idiot comment' for those who jumped to the imsunderstanding are withdrawn. It looked like they had simply ignored the statement and made up ridiculous conclusions about my position, which would be idiocy.

But an honest misunderstanding - even though they were wrong to not check my statement being literal or facetious before leaping to an extreme conclusion is just a mistake (like my quotes), not idiocy.

The context does imply the statement was literal - it doesn't make much sense as sarcasm, to say 'despite their being an actually good nation overly criticized, they do have decent reasons for two things'.

What would 'despite' mean in that sentence, it contradicts the sarcasm.

Thanks for pointing that out. Hopefully this clears it up.

 

[Craig234]

I admit...my position is you are truly ignorant. You said (and I quote)...You're an idiot and a liar. The right's 100% rate of lying about my position conitnues, and adds another example.

And you get a long wrong besides that.

Inded your ridiculos statements in this thread lead to littel response to much you have to say and not even reading you if it continues.

Which was into my response to AZN saying the U.S. prisons were no different that North Korea's slave labor camps.

No, it wasn't. I didn't say a word arguing the issue of the gulags.


Don't be so 'liberal' with your use of quotes. When you use them in the original text:

What you don't hear about the conflict every day: while North Korea is led by 'evil dictators' shut off from the world, they have a couple very good reasons for doing what they do.

I know you are inferring that it is the west labeling Kim Jong Il an evil dictator. I do also hope you realize there is no such thing as a non-evil dictator.

But that is an aside. Your are totally off base regarding North Korea. The North Korean leaders modeled their government off the stalinists in the Soviet Union. It was these inefficiencies in the management of North Koreas resources (natural, labor, etc) that have caused the nation it's problems. Yes there was a natural disaster caused famine... but the world came to North Koreas aid providing food. Years of agriculture mismanagement caused a severe crisis when the famine occured. Prior to the famine, the Soviet Union broke up and they stopped supporting NK with subsidized exports and demanding hard currency for goods. This is what killed the NK economy along with China effectively doing the same.

NK's problems even predate the Korean war. The south saw a large number of Norther refugees that were fleeing the "Army First" ideology of the NK government prior to the war. NK's leaders have used this strong military to control thier failed state (hence the gulag system to provide slave labor, place fear in the people, and get rid of political opponents).

How you can say that the U.S. placing nukes in North Korea is the reason they are in their current shape is well... ludicrous. That is almost like me saying Hitler did not kill JFK so the holocaust did not happen.

Funny, that sounds a lot like what I said - they have a terrible system, with problems increased by ther isolation from the global market (which was worsened as communist sponsors' aid went away), with the already bad situation worsened in the 90's by the disaster creating great famine. Yes, they run a very controlled society with a strong arm and there is much suffering.

But an example where you can't read is where I said that the US putting nukes into South Korea during the armistice created a great desire for the North to want to counter them with their own.

Many people only hear about the North Korean nukes as offensive and have no idea of the background that provokes their wanting nukes that's not as unreasonable as they first assume.

You say I said something I didn't - that the US putting nukes in South Korea os the cause of all their problems - or to quote, "the reason they are in their current shape".

You say it's ridiculous. Ever hear of a straw man? Yes, your straw man is riduculous, as is your behavior in misrepresenting what I said to that extreme.

I won't add other comments critical of your posts at this time, and see if you can improve your posts.

 

[rudder]

Funny, that sounds a lot like what I said - they have a terrible system, with problems increased by ther isolation from the global market (which was worsened as communist sponsors' aid went away), with the already bad situation worsened in the 90's by the disaster creating great famine. Yes, they run a very controlled society with a strong arm and there is much suffering.

But an example where you can't read is where I said that the US putting nukes into South Korea during the armistice created a great desire for the North to want to counter them with their own.

Many people only hear about the North Korean nukes as offensive and have no idea of the background that provokes their wanting nukes that's not as unreasonable as they first assume.

You say I said something I didn't - that the US putting nukes in South Korea os the cause of all their problems - or to quote, "the reason they are in their current shape".

You say it's ridiculous. Ever hear of a straw man? Yes, your straw man is riduculous, as is your behavior in misrepresenting what I said to that extreme.

I won't add other comments critical of your posts at this time, and see if you can improve your posts.

Good god man! You do know that medications exist that can fix what ails you. I mean they won't increase your IQ, but they may make you live a little closer to our reality.

 

[AzN]

Stop! You are ruining the stereotype I have of Asians as being very bright.

I am bright and it's not a stereotype. I just see things differently than the puppets you like to stereotype.

 

[AzN]

First, they don't have many nukes. Second, SK by proxy has many magnitudes more.

Enough to wipe SK into burning rubble for sure.

Then you are an ungrateful sh*t who is an offense to not only Americans but also North Koreans who live under the yoke of starvation and oppression by making light of what they go through by drawing similarities where they don't exist.

O'Rly. Perhaps your govt. should stop putting sanctions on NK so they can eat. Oh that's right it's never US fault. You cause misery and pain around the globe if you haven't noticed.

Insanity bolded for lulz.

I'm dead serious. Your people are whack that need to take a human being and turn it into livestock. I love my people. We live. You are grown.

 

[AzN]

SK is under our nuclear umbrella. Any nation that nukes South Korea, gets turned to glass by US retaliation. The difference being, there is almost a zero percent chance of a fizzle from our missiles and we have plenty to send, thanks to our rivalry with the Soviets. The explosions will also be far more potent than anything NK can come up with. BTW, nukes alone did not defeat Japan. Operation Downfall would have taken care of them as well and their empire in the pacific was destroyed before the bombs were dropped. They were still on the mainland (China, Korea), but US and friends were coming for their home islands.

well our conversation was what if no foreign power involvement. I suppose you weren't paying attention.

If US fire nukes so will everyone in that region. I suppose you think US is the only country capable of retaliating. Hmm...

As for japan. You can tell me your version as I don't really care for it.

 

[Acanthus]

NK and SK do this all the time. Nothing new.

They will never have a real war, because it is pretty much a M.A.D. situation.

 

[StageLeft]

O'Rly. Perhaps your govt. should stop putting sanctions on NK so they can eat. Oh that's right it's never US fault. You cause misery and pain around the globe if you haven't noticed.

I suppose I could ask who's responsible for more pain of North Koreans: US or The North Korean regime but who knows how you've been brainwashed. And there's no excuse for it. Thinking like you do if you lived in Pyongyang, I would get that. But here? No excuse.

 

[AzN]

I suppose I could ask who's responsible for more pain of North Koreans: US or The North Korean regime but who knows how you've been brainwashed. And there's no excuse for it. Thinking like you do if you lived in Pyongyang, I would get that. But here? No excuse.

You rather blame NK leaders for wanting sovereignty and rights to defending their country than US sanctions on NK to make N. Koreans hungry. I blame the source but you rather blame the middle man. Just because I live here in the US I have to mindlessly agree with Americans? Now who's brainwashed?

 

[EagleKeeper]

You rather blame NK leaders for wanting sovereignty and rights to defending their country than US sanctions on NK to make N. Koreans hungry. I blame the source but you rather blame the middle man. Just because I live here in the US I have to mindlessly agree with Americans? Now who's brainwashed?

It is the NK that continually have tried to attack SK.

SK is not digging tunnels under the DMZ.

SK is not sending guerrillas saboteurs into NK to assassinate political leaders

No one is printing counterfeit currency of NK

No one is shooting people trying to get into NK.

NK was isolated by China and has chosen to rule by communism.
The people again suffer as the result.

Who is NK defending against - the economic benefits of SK.
No one wants the country itself.
They are scared after what happened to East Germany - the leaders fell and the poor cousins merged with the wealthier to become one productive nation.

 

[K1052]

well our conversation was what if no foreign power involvement. I suppose you weren't paying attention.

If US fire nukes so will everyone in that region. I suppose you think US is the only country capable of retaliating. Hmm...

As for japan. You can tell me your version as I don't really care for it.

The South Koreans are more than technically proficient enough to develop their own nuclear deterrent in short order (and unlike the North Korea nukes they'll probably work).

The US forces in SK keep NK from attempting a conventional option and simply overrunning the country.

 

[piasabird]

If North Korea attacks we should just attack Bejing. North Korea is the stepchild of Russia and China. Russia and China share all the responsibility for the Korean War. It was all their weapons on the side of the North. After World War II, the USA had inferior weapons to fight against the Russian tanks that streamed across the border. Let this be a warning not to let our enemies get the upper hand in weapons systems. If we drop our guard they will take advantage of the situation.

 

[StageLeft]

You rather blame NK leaders for wanting sovereignty and rights to defending their country than US sanctions on NK to make N. Koreans hungry. I blame the source but you rather blame the middle man. Just because I live here in the US I have to mindlessly agree with Americans? Now who's brainwashed?

haha, thank you.

Either you are trolling or suffer a huge void in your skull.

 

[AzN]

If North Korea attacks we should just attack Bejing. North Korea is the stepchild of Russia and China. Russia and China share all the responsibility for the Korean War. It was all their weapons on the side of the North. After World War II, the USA had inferior weapons to fight against the Russian tanks that streamed across the border. Let this be a warning not to let our enemies get the upper hand in weapons systems. If we drop our guard they will take advantage of the situation.

How convenient. You always blame everyone but yourself. hmm...

Does US ever do wrong? According to Americans they don't!

 

[AzN]

It is the NK that continually have tried to attack SK.

SK is not digging tunnels under the DMZ.

SK is not sending guerrillas saboteurs into NK to assassinate political leaders

No one is printing counterfeit currency of NK

No one is shooting people trying to get into NK.

NK was isolated by China and has chosen to rule by communism.
The people again suffer as the result.

Who is NK defending against - the economic benefits of SK.
No one wants the country itself.
They are scared after what happened to East Germany - the leaders fell and the poor cousins merged with the wealthier to become one productive nation.

Keep telling yourself that. Korea is Korean affairs perhaps it's time US left and stop interfering with that's none of your business like setting puppet regime in SK for you to control. You don't get into China or Russia's business but you sure do butt in like you are wanted.

 

[AzN]

haha, thank you.

Either you are trolling or suffer a huge void in your skull.

Oh I must be trolling because I have different views. Can you answer the question? Who's more brainwashed? The person who blames the middle man or the source for causing misery?

 

[K1052]

Oh I must be trolling because I have different views. Can you answer the question? Who's more brainwashed? The person who blames the middle man or the source for causing misery?

The North Korean government causes the misery of the North Koreans. Their leaders only govern for to maintain the wealth of the rulers. NK is probably the worst hell hole on the entire planet in just about every respect. Sure a few other countries are more destitute but I don't think there is a more oppressive place left. This is not an opinion or a "view", this is a demonstrable fact.

Even the Chinese government really doesn't want anything to do with them anymore.

 

[StageLeft]

Oh I must be trolling because I have different views. Can you answer the question? Who's more brainwashed? The person who blames the middle man or the source for causing misery?

Dear Leader approves of this message.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Keep telling yourself that. Korea is Korean affairs perhaps it's time US left and stop interfering with that's none of your business like setting puppet regime in SK for you to control. You don't get into China or Russia's business but you sure do butt in like you are wanted.

NK was a puppet regieme for many years to China. It was setup by China/Russia as a counter action to the US supremancy after WWII.
Korea was one country until WWII. At the end of WWII, the Soviets and Chinese controlled south to the 38th and the US team controlled north to the 38th.
In 1950, the North (Communist) attacked the South.
That dragged the US, UN and China into the conflict - both supporting their idealogical side.
In 1953 you had the stalemate.
Then China woke up 20-30 years ago and realized that they had to start intergrating with the rest of the world.
NK did not.

So who is the puppet. SK for having free elections and a vibrant economy or NK with a communistic economy and dictator ship.

You are typical for a young Korean that has had all the benefits of freedom; exposed to propaganda from the schools by people that have no concept of what the Korean War was about of what life is actually in the North.

Ask why NK will not open it's borders for the Korean people to cross without interference?

 

[Jhhnn]

NKorea is the last of the paranoid Stalinist states. Their govt is a horror story, quite literally. Natural disaster in the 90's wrt agriculture just made it worse.

Problem is, trade sanctions, deliberate isolation and American d!ck-waving just feeds their paranoia. It's important to remember that their country was left devastated in the wake of the Korean conflict, and that their backers, the Chinese and Soviets, weren't nearly as generous with aid as America was wrt the south. The US airforce basically knocked the place flat- few buildings larger than an outhouse were spared, and anything that might have strategic importance was obliterated. It's just the truth. Their dislike for America has justification.

I think we do both Koreas a disservice by using the North for domestic fearmongering purposes in this country, which is basically what the Bush Admin accomplished. It's also a mistake to unilaterally abrogate whatever agreements have been made with the North, again, a Bush Admin trademark.

For sure, we need to be steadfast and vigilant in defense of our friends in the south, but what we really need to do more than anything else is to play our part quietly, let the two governments sort it out themselves.

I figure that the NKorean govt will crumble much like the Soviet bloc if trade and communication with the outside happens, but that our use of their situation as a pawn for our own gain hampers that, prevents progress.

Just sayin'...

 

[StageLeft]

I figure that the NKorean govt will crumble much like the Soviet bloc if trade and communication with the outside happens, but that our use of their situation as a pawn for our own gain hampers that, prevents progress.

Perhaps. The US does this with Cuba. I strongly believe that trade with Cuba should open right up. Amazingly the US considers them, officially, a terrorist source along the lines of Saudi or Yemen. How many Cuban terrorists have there been?

 

[K1052]

I figure that the NKorean govt will crumble much like the Soviet bloc if trade and communication with the outside happens, but that our use of their situation as a pawn for our own gain hampers that, prevents progress.

North Korea's extreme isolation is an intentional product of their government, not a consequence of US/SK politics.

The Korean War ended over half a century ago. There probably isn't barely anyone in NK left alive who remembers it. Hell, even Vietnam is in a far better spot presently and that country got the crap kicked out of it by everyone from the French to the Chinese for most of the last century.