South Dakota Passes First Law That Will Force Trans Kids to Detransition

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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,666
33,253
136
It seems to me that reconstructive surgery is a different issue than elective surgery. But based on other posts here, the surgical part of gender reassignment isn't performed on minors.
So it appears that we're only discussing the chemistry side of the issue, and the fundamental changes they induce in a child's body. So the question still stands, does a parent have the right to give their children those drugs? Perhaps the question becomes, is it necessary? Personally I don't believe that a child is capable of making that decision. Little Cindy may think she's actually little Chuck, but I don't believe the whims of a child should alter their entire life.

A quick google search turned up a story that casts doubt on the use of puberty blockers.
A great deal of plastic surgery to repair defects is elective. The source of the defect isn't necessarily the issue.

It's done for emotional well being which doesn't necessarily effect the physical. Example: breast implants after a mastectomy.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,890
5,001
126
It's like Ahmadinejad saying there's no gay people in Iran, how conservatives think like this I'll never understand.

and to be fair, I think it's safe to assume that numbers are actually growing. But that's because it is more acceptable now. So in the past when it was 100% forbidden, nobody allowed themselves to even begin to explore those feelings/thoughts and just did everything they could to "turn it off". Sadly, that likely resulted in a lot of suicides or at best a lot of miserable lives. So now with it acceptable people are not shying away from what they may have in the past and letting themselves explore and actually get to know (and accept) themselves.

... I think I worded that Ok?
 

Pohemi

Lifer
Oct 2, 2004
10,921
17,039
146
Personally I don't believe that a child is capable of making that decision. Little Cindy may think she's actually little Chuck, but I don't believe the whims of a child should alter their entire life.

A quick google search turned up a story that casts doubt on the use of puberty blockers.
1) The child or parent do not make the decision themselves, it involves entire medical teams to come to those conclusions, and it isn't elective for the one taking the drugs, no matter how bad you want to call it 'elective'. This isn't an eyelift. And hormone therapy or puberty blockers won't "alter their entire life", either. More rhetorical bullshit and conservative propaganda.

2) Children do not have "whims of fancy" that cause them to suddenly feel like the opposite gender...and if they explain their feelings to their own parents, it should not be shrugged off as "a phase". That's more conservative rhetoric.

3) "A quick google search turned up..." Uh huh. You make it sound as though "a quick google search" just found all sorts of evidence of your feels. It's a single hospital in Sweden. Fuck off with that shit, that isn't evidence. It's a single instance to support your shitheaded feels. Again.

Any more misunderstandings or misrepresentations of facts because of your feels? :rolleyes:
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,256
136
What's funny is in reality we're not talking about surgery. Ethically doctors won't do sex reassignment surgeries on minors. This is really about demonizing trans kids and preventing them from having access to non-surgical interventions that are not irreversible.
He has been told this numerous times, but that doesn't support his beliefs so he ignores it.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
63,203
19,554
136
That's an interesting point.
Does a parent have the right to have elective surgery done on a minor child?
According to the bill's text, if they have ambiguous internal/external genital configurations (intersex/DSD children), the parent still gets to pick what genital configuration their child should have.
 
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kitkat22

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2005
1,464
1,333
136
These laws are a continuation of the demonization of the medical profession and a target for those who have limited ability to defend themselves. It probably started with COVID with certain populations now distrusting the medical world. I still see patient's enter the hospital accusing me of being a part of the "conspiracy." BTW, I am still waiting on the check for that one. Oh, and as a consequence of a lot of reimbursement cuts, we are now liable to lose a lot of rural hospitals. But hey, we at least owned the libs.

Greenman - there is this notion that we as the medical professionals are ignoring the massive burst of kids coming into clinics claiming gender dysphoria. We already know there is a fad going on. We aren't stupid. The problem is we have to now sift through all these patients to try to decipher who is part of the fad and who is legit in need of medical care. Physicians are already incredibly conservative to begin with in their care. Hence, the current recommendations from multiple specialists and providers to confirm a diagnosis. This process alone takes months, if not years.

There is a lot that goes into trying to determine the cause of gender dysphoria for a patient. yes, there is a fad, but there are also children who have faced abuse, trauma, rape/assault, autism, schizophrenia and so on. Each one of the kids in these situations probably don't need puberty blockers and definitely not surgery. We send this kids to therapy, start anxiety and depression medications and see what happens. Some of these situations, can be so severe, for example, that an abused child wants absolutely nothing to do with their sex. Their mere existence as a member of that sex is perceived as being vulnerable and many will transition for their own sanity and protection.

Then there are the intersex kids and then those who have the genetics to fit an intersex condition, but didn't quite meet that criteria or it wasn't diagnosed at birth. It happens a lot more than you think. this can be easily compared to autism. Everyone asks, "why is there so much autism now?" It's due to the fact we actually recognize it better now. Why is there so much gender dysphoria and transgender individuals? It's because we recognize it more. Is there some component of a social movement? Yes and we work to recognize those individuals and take care of them without the drugs/interventions. On the other hand, we have a large contingency of individuals we are trying to save and treat the way that medical literature and all the major medical societies support. There are a lot of very smart and capable people working on this.
 

kitkat22

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2005
1,464
1,333
136
Are you implying that the Governor or the great state of South Dakota would be acting disingenuously?!

Yep, every single state that has passed these laws have essentially done a copy-and-paste from other states. They hoist the banner of "protect-the-children" when in reality the effects of this legislation is doing anything but. The mere fact that intersex or disorders of sexual development is incredibly ambiguous creates tons of problems of error with interpretation. These laws are hateful and politically motivated.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,799
5,566
136
You're conflating medical necessity with elective or vanity based medicine.
I have no doubt that there are children that believe in their hearts that they're the the wrong gender, but why is the number suddenly growing so rapidly? Has the condition been prevalent and unnoticed for decades? Ignored? What changed?

I have no issue with gender reassignment, but I have very real concerns that it's become a fad. That will absolutely lead to some very tragic outcomes. The Swedes decided to put severe limits on chemical therapy, do they know something we don't? Or do they just have a right wing medical oversite board?
You are an evil, cruel, and sadistic person, your soul will burn in hell for eternity.
 

Pohemi

Lifer
Oct 2, 2004
10,921
17,039
146
It seems to me that reconstructive surgery is a different issue than elective surgery. But based on other posts here, the surgical part of gender reassignment isn't performed on minors.
And yet you keep mentioning it, and then shift to questioning of puberty blockers. Parents are fine to decide what other drugs their children can take, but these are super questionable. Because you insist on feigning ignorance even though it's been explained to you ad nauseum why they shouldn't wait until they are 18 for the treatment.
You're conflating medical necessity with elective or vanity based medicine.
What you are conflating is medical necessity only meaning life-saving, as opposed to life-improving. I also wouldn't be too surprised if you, "don't believe in" mental health, and how it can affect a person's physical health. Please correct me if I'm mistaken on that.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,925
2,908
136
And yet you keep mentioning it, and then shift to questioning of puberty blockers. Parents are fine to decide what other drugs their children can take, but these are super questionable. Because you insist on feigning ignorance even though it's been explained to you ad nauseum why they shouldn't wait until they are 18 for the treatment.

What you are conflating is medical necessity only meaning life-saving, as opposed to life-improving. I also wouldn't be too surprised if you, "don't believe in" mental health, and how it can affect a person's physical health. Please correct me if I'm mistaken on that.

Exactly. I'd love to hear him explain why other forms of hormone therapy for CIS individuals are "medically necessary" and why a Transgendered teenager's team of doctors are wrong about their need for blockers and hormones.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,684
5,228
136
You're conflating medical necessity with elective or vanity based medicine.
I have no doubt that there are children that believe in their hearts that they're the the wrong gender, but why is the number suddenly growing so rapidly? Has the condition been prevalent and unnoticed for decades? Ignored? What changed?

I have no issue with gender reassignment, but I have very real concerns that it's become a fad. That will absolutely lead to some very tragic outcomes. The Swedes decided to put severe limits on chemical therapy, do they know something we don't? Or do they just have a right wing medical oversite board?

Pssst…elective surgery is any surgery that doesn’t save your life. Cesarean section…can be elective, believe it or not. CABG (coronary artery bypass graft) is necessary. Some skin graft surgery can be elective…not necessary for life.

You seem to think elective surgery is boob jobs, nose jobs and the like. Fact is, if the surgery doesn’t save your life, it’s generally elective. Have seen a lot of fights over ins payments because what you might consider necessary the ins co determines it’s elective.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,925
2,908
136
Go watch your once outgoing, happy, charismatic 12 year old hide in their room depressed and suicidal for months on end with gender dysphoria and tell me the blockers and hormone therapy that help them aren't "medically necessary".