Sound cards...........

[Kinesis]

OK MP3's are not so good. And WMA IMHO is not much different (good or bad), so what format is superior? Ogg?

 

[Operandi]

MP3's are fine...... it all depends on how you encode them, obviously 128 isn't going to sound the best. I have all my CD's encoded using high quality LAME VBR (259k average), so far nobody has been able to tell the difference, this is on very high quality gear.

 

[imported_KuJaX]

all of my songs are 256 or 320. So whats the dicussion about the AV-710?

 

[Operandi]

Originally posted by: KuJaX
all of my songs are 256 or 320. So whats the dicussion about the AV-710?

Ok, so that ends the MP3 stupidity....

When it comes to audio quality its really all about the DAC being used. Both the audigy2 and the AV-710 would be upgrades, I guess I'd get the Chaintech if your primary concern is music since its so much cheaper.

 

[Algere]

Unless you want to use ASIO without resampling up to 96 KHz.

 

[Algere]

"When it comes to audio quality its really all about the DAC being used."

Not necessarily, other components factor in too e.g. sound processor.

Take e.g. the M-Audio Revolution 7.1 versus the Audigy 2 ZS. It's been said many times that the Revolution has better sound quality yet it's DAC is inferior (specwise) to the Audigy 2 ZS's DAC.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Operandi
MP3's are fine...... it all depends on how you encode them, obviously 128 isn't going to sound the best. I have all my CD's encoded using high quality LAME VBR (259k average), so far nobody has been able to tell the difference, this is on very high quality gear.

What high quality gear do you speak of?

 

[Operandi]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Operandi
MP3's are fine...... it all depends on how you encode them, obviously 128 isn't going to sound the best. I have all my CD's encoded using high quality LAME VBR (259k average), so far nobody has been able to tell the difference, this is on very high quality gear.

What high quality gear do you speak of?

I did testing a bunch of stuff.... My setup consisting of a classic pair of DCM Time Windows, Adcom amp and pre-amp, and a Sony ES cd player.

A friend of mine is an audio engineering major at Michigan Tech so I had the opportunity to mess with all of their project speakers. They had some pretty incredible stuff there, some of the best speakers I've ever heard (some not), we also blew a lot of drivers for fun late at night .

 

[Operandi]

Originally posted by: Algere
"When it comes to audio quality its really all about the DAC being used."

Not necessarily, other components factor in too e.g. sound processor.

Take e.g. the M-Audio Revolution 7.1 versus the Audigy 2 ZS. It's been said many times that the Revolution has better sound quality yet it's DAC is inferior (specwise) to the Audigy 2 ZS's DAC.

Your right but for the sake of simplicity the DAC quality is a pretty good indication of the sound quality of the card I'd say.

 

[oldfart]

Originally posted by: Operandi

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Operandi
MP3's are fine...... it all depends on how you encode them, obviously 128 isn't going to sound the best. I have all my CD's encoded using high quality LAME VBR (259k average), so far nobody has been able to tell the difference, this is on very high quality gear.

What high quality gear do you speak of?

I did testing a bunch of stuff.... My setup consisting of a classic pair of DCM Time Windows, Adcom amp and pre-amp, and a Sony ES cd player.

A friend of mine is an audio engineering major at Michigan Tech so I had the opportunity to mess with all of their project speakers. They had some pretty incredible stuff there, some of the best speakers I've ever heard (some not), we also blew a lot of drivers for fun late at night .

Dont see many people with DCM speakers. I have a pair of DCM Time Frame 400s. Have had them for a long time. They still sound great although I wish I would have gone with the TF 600s

 

[Imyourzero]

Originally posted by: Algere

Originally posted by: Imyourzero
Why are you rolling your eyes? The Chaintech blows away the Audigy cards in terms of music quality. The Audigy/Audigy 2 are no doubt better gaming cards but the AV-710 is a few steps up for music. Don't let its price fool you. It is capable of bit perfect audio playback (unlike the Audigy cards) and its Wolfson DAC is better than what Creative uses on their gaming cards. The Creative E-MU 0404 and 1212m are even better than the AV-710 for music but they're nowhere near the price/performance ratio of the Chaintech, plus they are professional/studio music cards and not made for gaming. At least you can game with the AV-710; it's just that you'll lose EAX and it'll sap a few more CPU cycles than an Audigy.

Actually the DAC on the Audigy 2 ZS is better than that of the Wolfson on the AV-710.

EDIT: P.S. You can use the E-MU 0404 or 1212M for gaming too.

You sure that the Wolfson DAC is inferior to that of the one on the A2 ZS? I'm going to have to verify that...but even if that's so, the mere fact that the Audigy cards resample the audio has a very detrimental effect on the sound quality. The AV-710 doesn't require resampling.

And yes, OF COURSE you can use the 0404 and 1212m for gaming...but I didn't think anyone gamed in 2-channel stereo anymore, which is all they're capable of. Not to mention the lack of EAX and other 3D effects.

 

[Imyourzero]

Originally posted by: Brian48

Originally posted by: Imyourzero

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Get the chaintech AV-710 if you want some nice MP3 quality. It will sound much better than the Audigy, and it only costs $21.
Onboard may or may not sound fine depending on the DAC it uses. Most times it will use a bad DAC. Occaisionally you'll get a good one such as crystal or soundmax(analog devices)

:roll:

Why are you rolling your eyes? The Chaintech blows away the Audigy cards in terms of music quality. The Audigy/Audigy 2 are no doubt better gaming cards but the AV-710 is a few steps up for music. Don't let its price fool you. It is capable of bit perfect audio playback (unlike the Audigy cards) and its Wolfson DAC is better than what Creative uses on their gaming cards. The Creative E-MU 0404 and 1212m are even better than the AV-710 for music but they're nowhere near the price/performance ratio of the Chaintech, plus they are professional/studio music cards and not made for gaming. At least you can game with the AV-710; it's just that you'll lose EAX and it'll sap a few more CPU cycles than an Audigy.

He's rolling his eyes because the BS metering starting to tilt again. The Audigy and Audigy2 are DISTINCTLY different when it comes to the quality of music playback. As many of us pointed out, the A2 began incorporating very high quality DACs and well as other improvements. The AV-710 may be better than the original Audigy when it comes to overall music playback, but it is NOT superior to the A2. :roll:

Yes, I'm aware that the Audigy 2 is a step up from the original Audigy. I've owned both cards... :roll:

And as I pointed out above, I don't care how much better the DACs on the Audigy 2 cards are compared to the ones on the first Audigy cards. The fact is that all of the Audigy series cards resample the audio which has a very negative effect on sound quality as opposed to a card like the AV-710 which does bit-perfect audio and does not require resampling. :roll:

 

[ampiere]

Excuse me can i ask one question?

I have a creative sounblaster live DE5.1 and built in 7.1ch sound in my MSI K8N Platinum. In your opinion which sound card will provide better sound quality on a 5.1ch speaker system? THanks

 

[Algere]

Originally posted by: Imyourzero
as opposed to a card like the AV-710 which does bit-perfect audio and does not require resampling. :roll:

Unless you playback a non-96 KHz audio file under ASIO.

P.S. Assuming the AV-710 is set to hi-res mode.

 

[Algere]

Originally posted by: ampiere
Excuse me can i ask one question?

I have a creative sounblaster live DE5.1 and built in 7.1ch sound in my MSI K8N Platinum. In your opinion which sound card will provide better sound quality on a 5.1ch speaker system? THanks

What kind of onboard audio does the motherboard have?

 

[ampiere]

Algere: The m/b have built in RealtecALC850 7.1ch sound chip

 

[Algere]

Originally posted by: Imyourzero
You sure that the Wolfson DAC is inferior to that of the one on the A2 ZS? I'm going to have to verify that...but even if that's so, the mere fact that the Audigy cards resample the audio has a very detrimental effect on the sound quality. The AV-710 doesn't require resampling.

And yes, OF COURSE you can use the 0404 and 1212m for gaming...but I didn't think anyone gamed in 2-channel stereo anymore, which is all they're capable of. Not to mention the lack of EAX and other 3D effects.

It still has DirectSound capability, isn't that a 3D effect? & "I" game in stereo mode and I also didn't say the AV-710 was inferior to the Audigy 2 ZS in terms of sound quality. I said the DAC is of lower quality which isn't the only factor of a sound card that determines sound quality.

===

Forgot to mention, Headphones (2 channel) are great for FPS's so yea ppl still game with headphones. You won't get the surround sound feeling you'd get with speakers but you do pick up more detail/sounds with headphones and even with high-end speakers, they can't beat the stereo seperation headphones provide.

 

[Algere]

Originally posted by: ampiere
Algere: The m/b have built in RealtecALC850 7.1ch sound chip

Better off with the Live IMO

 

[LanFear]

I've got an audigy 2 ZS with some sennheiser headphones, not sure about the other cards, but the A2 supports dvd audio, and it sounds unreal. Most serious audiophiles do not rely on mp3's except for maybe conveniance and keeping archive records of their real collections. Many are moving from LP's and cd's to dvd audio as they become available, and the ones i know use lossless encoding for their computer music files. They also have the luxury of having thousands of dollars or real equipment.

 

[ampiere]

Thanks Algere

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Imyourzero

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Get the chaintech AV-710 if you want some nice MP3 quality. It will sound much better than the Audigy, and it only costs $21.
Onboard may or may not sound fine depending on the DAC it uses. Most times it will use a bad DAC. Occaisionally you'll get a good one such as crystal or soundmax(analog devices)

:roll:

Why are you rolling your eyes? The Chaintech blows away the Audigy cards in terms of music quality. The Audigy/Audigy 2 are no doubt better gaming cards but the AV-710 is a few steps up for music. Don't let its price fool you. It is capable of bit perfect audio playback (unlike the Audigy cards) and its Wolfson DAC is better than what Creative uses on their gaming cards. The Creative E-MU 0404 and 1212m are even better than the AV-710 for music but they're nowhere near the price/performance ratio of the Chaintech, plus they are professional/studio music cards and not made for gaming. At least you can game with the AV-710; it's just that you'll lose EAX and it'll sap a few more CPU cycles than an Audigy.

Easy there turbo. I was rolling my eyes because he was saying that you'll notice a big difference in your MP3s. No one in pursuit of top notch music is going to be using MP3s. That's already been covered in this thread.

Er, I can only ABX two songs out of my collection using LAME 3.96.1 w/ --alt-preset extreme. Two songs. I'm now going lossless for important albums, but I think you underestimate LAME.

I also disagree that the Chaintech will be 'much better'. Better, sure, and a fantastic value without argument, but the Audigy 2 ZS does sound pretty good. You may want to use software resampling for music, though.

 

[proxopspete]

I've owned Live! 5.1 prior to my AV-710. And mp3 playback was way more horrible with Live! 5.1. Also, the way to hear the better ends of any digital audio playback, esp. with Creative's cards, is to bypass the audio mixers by using Kernel Streaming. I use Foobar2000 religiously now for mp3 playback (at 226 VBR) and it's just too clear!!!

 

[oldfart]

Originally posted by: proxopspete
I've owned Live! 5.1 prior to my AV-710. And mp3 playback was way more horrible with Live! 5.1. Also, the way to hear the better ends of any digital audio playback, esp. with Creative's cards, is to bypass the audio mixers by using Kernel Streaming. I use Foobar2000 religiously now for mp3 playback (at 226 VBR) and it's just too clear!!!

Cool. Could you offer up optimal setup/config for Foobar2K and the ZS?

 

[imported_KuJaX]

just downloaded foobar2000...... interesting player, really "blah"

I think i'm going to go with the AV-710 over the audigy 2......................... i will decide final monday.

 

[Algere]

As long as you know the Pros & Cons of that card. :thumbsup: