Sorry, another gun control thread

[TallBill]

No, seeing violence doesn’t qualify you to understand the effects of gun ownership for the average person.

Why does this even need to be explained?

Haha I have no doubt you can! I suspect my statement that you have little knowledge of the effects of firearm ownership is accurate though.

Your own words bro

 

[fskimospy]

Your own words bro

Yes, exactly. Are you trying to play another pedantic word game instead of admitting you don’t know what you’re talking about? (The answer is yes)

Unless you can show me where empirical research discussing the risk adjusted odds of being the victim of homicide or suicide is tattooed on those dead bodies it’s irrelvant and you know it.

 

[TallBill]

Yes, exactly. Are you trying to play another pedantic word game instead of admitting you don’t know what you’re talking about? (The answer is yes)

Unless you can show me where empirical research discussing the risk adjusted odds of being the victim of homicide or suicide is tattooed on those dead bodies it’s irrelvant and you know it.

Ah yes, empirical research. Exactly what you lacked and what I asked for. Weird how that works huh?

 

[fskimospy]

Ah yes, empirical research. Exactly what you lacked and what I asked for. Weird how that works huh?

No, you said you’d seem more dead bodies than me and then tried to play word games.

If you’re interested in the empirical research though you can use the search feature and see where I’ve posted it many times. It’s not like this is controversial.

 

[TallBill]

So you wont post empirical research? I didn't expect so. John Lott's More Guns Less Crime is my source, great read. If you buy it right now, i'll paypal you the cost. $6.49 shipped.

 

[richaron]

*Snip* When will you learn? The problem is a mental condition, not the hardware available. A discussion about weapons is futile. Those are not the problem. A hateful, motivated killer, is the problem.*Snip*

This is just so wrong. It makes me me sad when I see so many confused souls try to redirect from the gun issue. As if killings with guns have nothing to do with guns. Sure one can kill without a gun. A screwdriver of a kitchen knife (or whatever) can be used, but none of these items were designed with the express design of ending lives. And guns can end lives in the most efficient way possible and from a distance.

If the guns weren't freely available then a "hateful, motivated killer" would have less options available to them. Sure they might still kill, but semi or full auto weapons would be out of the equation. Do these muppets really believe a "hateful, motivated killer" will be just as dangerous if arming them with guns wasn't an option?

But more than the premeditated killings, it's the disgusting availability of firearms in everyday society that's the problem. In a world where people carry guns any argument or confrontation can go from zero to fatality in no time. And even a normal person who isn't a "killer" can take a life in the heat of the moment. It's stupid that this is even an option.

 

[Ichinisan]

I was watching "Fact Fiend" (Karl Smallwood) on YouTube and he casually mentioned that he had been mugged while taking about something else and explaining why he was going into a phone store for a new phone -- as if getting mugged is just a normal occurrence in whichever-part of the UK he lives in.

Not here. I live in a city near Atlanta, GA USA. I've never known anyone who was mugged. Potential muggers must consider that a weak-looking person might be packing a great equalizer.

Even though I don't carry, I benefit from legalized firearms. Fewer people would consider mugging me because they don't know if I'm carrying a handgun or not.

 

[TallBill]

I was watching "Fact Fiend" (Karl Smallwood) on YouTube and he casually mentioned that he had been mugged while taking about something else and explaining why he was going into a phone store for a new phone -- as if getting mugged is just a normal occurrence in whichever-part of the UK he lives in.

Not here. I live in a city near Atlanta, GA USA. I've never known anyone who was mugged. Potential muggers must consider that a weak-looking person might be packing a great equalizer.

Even though I don't carry, I benefit from legalized firearms. Fewer people would consider mugging me because they don't know if I'm carrying a handgun or not.

Lott writes about this extensively. In fact, part of his work is why there has been such a swing in concealed carry laws over the past 20+ years. It's incredibly hard to measure their affect.

 

[MrSquished]

I was watching "Fact Fiend" (Karl Smallwood) on YouTube and he casually mentioned that he had been mugged while taking about something else and explaining why he was going into a phone store for a new phone -- as if getting mugged is just a normal occurrence in whichever-part of the UK he lives in.

Not here. I live in a city near Atlanta, GA USA. I've never known anyone who was mugged. Potential muggers must consider that a weak-looking person might be packing a great equalizer.

Even though I don't carry, I benefit from legalized firearms. Fewer people would consider mugging me because they don't know if I'm carrying a handgun or not.

I'm 43 and never known anyone to get mugged in NJ or NYC. Maybe we just have good law enforcement around these parts.

I think we should be able to keep land mines on our lawns. To prevent robbers. And our cars rigged with explosives when they are parked in our driveways or parked out at the store to prevent theft. To go along with being able to carry a weapon everywhere to prevent muggings. That would be a dream society to any honorable human that wants the right to bear arms to live in a truly civlized place.

 

[TallBill]

Lol I lived in Newark for four months and met four other students that got mugged, two violently. Anecdotal stories are great examples to affirm beliefs.

 

[richaron]

I'm 43 and never known anyone to get mugged in NJ or NYC. Maybe we just have good law enforcement around these parts.

I think we should be able to keep land mines on our lawns. To prevent robbers. And our cars rigged with explosives when they are parked in our driveways or parked out at the store to prevent theft. To go along with being able to carry a weapon everywhere to prevent muggings. That would be a dream society to any honorable human that wants the right to bear arms to live in a truly civlized place.

I retract my previous statements.

You have convinced me that weapons designed with the intention of killing aren't the problem.. How could I possibly blame the availability of devices designed to kill things... for killing things?

I tote's get where the NRA are coming from now.

 

[shortylickens]

I'm 43 and never known anyone to get mugged in NJ or NYC. Maybe we just have good law enforcement around these parts.

I think we should be able to keep land mines on our lawns. To prevent robbers. And our cars rigged with explosives when they are parked in our driveways or parked out at the store to prevent theft. To go along with being able to carry a weapon everywhere to prevent muggings. That would be a dream society to any honorable human that wants the right to bear arms to live in a truly civlized place.

My mom goes up to Baltimore for treatment and its one of the worst towns in America. I go with her for security, not just for moral support.
And Johns Hopkins is in the worst neighborhood in Baltimore so theres that.

I think people from New York would be very surprised at how tough they're really not if they were to visit Detroit or St. Louis or almost any city in Texas or Baltimore or Rome or Barcelona or actually most of planet earth now that I think about it.

 

[MrSquished]

My mom goes up to Baltimore for treatment and its one of the worst towns in America. I go with her for security, not just for moral support.
And Johns Hopkins is in the worst neighborhood in Baltimore so theres that.

I think people from New York would be very surprised at how tough they're really not if they were to visit Detroit or St. Louis or almost any city in Texas or Baltimore or Rome or Barcelona or actually most of planet earth now that I think about it.

I never said nobody I knew has gotten mugged around here because of how tough they are.

Been called a shithole city by some in the south that's for sure. I laugh at morons like that.

I've been to Baltimore and St. Louis and some cities in Texas but I kept to the nice parts. Especially Baltimore. I'll be in Barcelona next May for my Honeymoon, I think I'll be fine. But I'll report back if my NYC toughness doesn't get me past the Mediterranean violent ghettos.

 

[fskimospy]

So you wont post empirical research? I didn't expect so. John Lott's More Guns Less Crime is my source, great read. If you buy it right now, i'll paypal you the cost. $6.49 shipped.

I have posted tons of empirical research. Because you approach this idea emotionally as opposed to logically you will cling to John Lott.

People who just care about the science know that owning a gun makes you less safe. We aren’t like you though because we care about the facts, not about the feelings.

 

[TallBill]

I have posted tons of empirical research. Because you approach this idea emotionally as opposed to logically you will cling to John Lott.

People who just care about the science know that owning a gun makes you less safe. We aren’t like you though because we care about the facts, not about the feelings.

So you're not going to read the defining research that changed handgun laws across the nation? I guess that's one way to make sure that you're right.

 

[TallBill]

Lol, I have feelings.. that's rich. Let my wife know.

 

[mikeymikec]

I was watching "Fact Fiend" (Karl Smallwood) on YouTube and he casually mentioned that he had been mugged while taking about something else and explaining why he was going into a phone store for a new phone -- as if getting mugged is just a normal occurrence in whichever-part of the UK he lives in.

I've known a grand total of one person who was mugged in the UK. Must be an epidemic! Quick, we all need guns!

 

[TallBill]

I've known a grand total of one person who was mugged in the UK. Must be an epidemic! Quick, we all need guns!

And yet your aggravated robbery and rape cases double ours.. hmm

 

[mikeymikec]

And yet your aggravated robbery and rape cases double ours.. hmm

If simplistic comparisons are the order of the day, I think given the choice between murdered as a child or robbery/rape, I'll take the latter.

 

[TallBill]

Simplistic anecdotal evidence is, why wouldn't basic comparisons?

 

[mikeymikec]

Simplistic anecdotal evidence is, why wouldn't basic comparisons?

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

But I do think it's rather stupid to compare two countries' crime statistics and assume that by altering a major factor in one would logically result in the other's even though that factor in the other country wasn't ever vaguely comparable.

 

[TallBill]

I didn't want to de-rail the "P&N's middle name is and" thread, but I did want to respond to a point made there:

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/p-ns-middle-name-is-and.2390807/page-694#post-39472918



Two things:

1 - You felt the need to argue a point over a technicality that you almost admit is not really relevant to the discussion in which you were participating (full auto vs semi auto), yet you made it anyway.

2 - The "statistical outlier" is such a bullshit argument. While most sensible people would argue that spending time and money on laws should at least in part be based on just how much of a difference that law is going to make, the fact of the matter is that many people consider school shootings to be sufficiently horrific and significantly worthy of such measures that it took literally ONE school massacre involving "only handguns" for the UK to ban ownership of handguns, and no school shootings have occurred in the UK since then. The ban isn't a remotely controversial topic in the UK.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dunblane-school-shootings-ban/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre

On the other hand, five school shootings in May alone:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States
And the US has a history so long on this topic that it gets its own page, whereas the rest of the world's events are detailed on one page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

I do think it's rather stupid to compare two countries' crime statistics and assume that by altering a major factor in one would logically result in the other's even though that factor in the other country wasn't ever vaguely comparable.

 

[Thebobo]

I've probably seen more dead bodies than you.

And good for you why does that matter except maybe to stoke your ego? And here we go again with I'm an expert more than you about something that matters why?

 

[TallBill]

And good for you why does that matter except maybe to stoke your ego? And here we go again with I'm an expert more than you about something that matters why?

Am I a clueless idiot or an expert, I can't keep track. I was responding to his claim that I had had no clue about the effects of violence. I do on a personal scale, and a large scale.

 

[Commodus]

So you're not going to read the defining research that changed handgun laws across the nation? I guess that's one way to make sure that you're right.

John Lott has also been caught using a sock puppet to praise his work, 'conveniently' lost an important data set (and any way of proving it even existed), and hasn't been shy about flaunting a strong right-wing bias. He doesn't have much integrity, so I'm not sure why you'd consider him an authoritative source on gun control.