Sony Has New Console In The Works, AMD Building Graphics

[blackened23]

Upscaled 720p @ 30 FPS with crappy textures, AF, AA, shadowmaps ect. isn't impressive IMHO.

Can a console do what a mordern PC does I.Q wise? Nah.

Don't be a PC snob while I like the PC better myself understand that a GPU inside of a console will perform substantially better than it would in a PC, due to the fact that developers skip the API overhead. Of course the PC is better, but the overall user experience of consoles is great for the _average_ user since they can just pop a game in and not worry about "tweaking" settings. Many 360 games look fantastic, dark souls being a good example.

I don't think a PC with a X1900 would play crysis 2 too well - while the 360 version is "only" 720p it looks and plays great.

 

[Grooveriding]

I have to say I have never seen a console game that looked good imo. The closest it has gotten for me is if I have plugged it into my 1920x1200 monitor which does improve the poor graphics by using a much lower ppi.

I have an LCD(46") and plasma HDTV(60") and find console games just look terrible on either of those screens - really, really low resolution textures, aliasing, crappy lighting and shadowing.

The only games that look passably okay to me have been the uncharted series. This is talking about recent console games, I do remember being blown away by the first Donkey Kong Country on SNES

 

[BlockheadBrown]

Yes I prefer the PC. PCs have their own shortcomings though:
1.) Depending on dev/game - can have little to no patch support while still having issues.
2.) Not all have good support for controllers/m+kb even though these should be a given.
3.) Limitations on activations via securom or whatever (ran into this recently - total B.S.)
4.) Install capacity limitations based on your HD (can't install everything you have if you don't have enough space).
5.) Some settings not available on PC versions that should be (res, cust. controls, etc.)
6.) Freaking terrible GFWL saves that get lost due to GFWL issues when upgrading/reinstalling/whatever/crossing your eyes while there's a full moon. Sometimes work arounds work. Sometimes they don't (experienced this in several GFWL games).

That's all. Yes I prefer the PC, but I know there are limitations. I'd spend more of my time actually playing games on consoles rather than on PCs (installing/tweaking/upgrading/patching/modding/working around issues/etc.).

 

[SlowSpyder]

You make a good point actually.
If AMD really do ed up with GPUs in every next gen console, that means hardware PhysX is unlikely to feature in any way, since console manufacturers almost certainly won't want to pay for another chip/GPU just for physics.

Which means another console generation with no hardware PhysX ability, meaning continued poor support on the PC market.

It might push OpenCL designs if both the next gen Xbox and PS3 support OpenCL via GPU though. It would make a lot more sense from a hardware perspective to ensure you have a solid GPGPU in your console, because then developers can potentially leverage it for non-graphics work as well where plausible, if they aren't making a graphics oriented game.

All depends on what type of GPUs they use, even if the AMD rumours aren't true.

AMD in all three systems will not kill what is already dead.

 

[badb0y]

I liked Uncharted 2,3 and God of War 3 but that's about it everything else I played on the PC. The only reason I have the PS3 is because of those damn exclusive games I want to play.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Don't be a PC snob while I like the PC better myself understand that a GPU inside of a console will perform substantially better than it would in a PC, due to the fact that developers skip the API overhead. Of course the PC is better, but the overall user experience of consoles is great for the _average_ user since they can just pop a game in and not worry about "tweaking" settings. Many 360 games look fantastic, dark souls being a good example.

I don't think a PC with a X1900 would play crysis 2 too well - while the 360 version is "only" 720p it looks and plays great.

They really cheated on the console with Crysis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WJG14uLA3k

Notice the riddiculous draw distance on the console.
All the stuff that is missing from console is how far we have progressed since 2006.

Now we can look forward to another 6-7-8 years of stagnation...*sigh*

 

[Arzachel]

1.) Depending on dev/game - can have little to no patch support while still having issues.

The same is true with consoles. It might be even worse because, atleast on the Xbox, you have to pay to deploy more than one patch.

2.) Not all have good support for controllers/m+kb even though these should be a given.

Support for only a limited range of peripherals, rarely letting you reassign buttons to your liking.

3.) Limitations on activations via securom or whatever (ran into this recently - total B.S.)

More expensive games, day 1 DLC to kill the used market.

4.) Install capacity limitations based on your HD (can't install everything you have if you don't have enough space).

Having to deal with physical media after the first install sucks. Many games have horrid loading times, if you don't install them to your console and not all consoles have hdd's.

5.) Some settings not available on PC versions that should be (res, cust. controls, etc.)

Next to no settings at all, one size fits all. Even when it doesn't.

6.) Freaking terrible GFWL saves that get lost due to GFWL issues when upgrading/reinstalling/whatever/crossing your eyes while there's a full moon. Sometimes work arounds work. Sometimes they don't (experienced this in several GFWL games).

No choice to not be saddled with the drm the console provides. Try getting your saves from one console to the other without breaking several household objects from rage.

Mind you, this is mostly from the Xbox 360 side of things, but most of these are valid for the PS3 and Wii too. I feel that Steam and digital distribution as a whole is eroding the advantage consoles had in user friendliness.

 

[SlowSpyder]

They really cheated on the console with Crysis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WJG14uLA3k

Notice the riddiculous draw distance on the console.
All the stuff that is missing from console is how far we have progressed since 2006.

Now we can look forward to another 6-7-8 years of stagnation...*sigh*

At least for the first year or two things may improve (at least compared to where they are now).

But, that is PC gaming today. The desktop PC is essentialy old tech. No one wants them. They are 'Grandpa boxes'. So they are simply not a priority any more, and we get console scraps mostly. It is almost surprising that Nvidia and AMD put so much effort into discreet high end desktop GPU's. No wonder they are trying to find more uses for all that parallel processing power.

 

[Spjut]

They really cheated on the console with Crysis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WJG14uLA3k

Notice the riddiculous draw distance on the console.
All the stuff that is missing from console is how far we have progressed since 2006.

Now we can look forward to another 6-7-8 years of stagnation...*sigh*

For a fair comparison, it's better to compare the actual Crysis 1 on consoles running on the finished Cryengine 3, rather than some sequences from the first public shown tech demo

 

[Lonbjerg]

For a fair comparison, it's better to compare the actual Crysis 1 on consoles running on the finished Cryengine 3, rather than some sequences from the first public shown tech demo

If you got a better example, please do share.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

I feel that Steam and digital distribution as a whole is eroding the advantage consoles had in user friendliness.

Agreed to a point. There are console gamers that have heard how great Steam is and still get anxious over the possibility of having issues with games via Steam. Gabe said that they wouldn't rule out a console, but making one wouldn't be their first choice. A friend who's mainly a console gamer would readily buy a Steam based console, but not a PC with Steam on it. Interesting.

 

[Grooveriding]

Considering Crysis is still the best looking PC game, I don't even need to look at the comparisons to know it looks like ass on the 360 compared to the PC

 

[StrangerGuy]

Lol @ posters here who think people who buy consoles actually give a flying shit about image quality vs PCs.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

Lol @ posters here who think people who buy consoles actually give a flying shit about image quality vs PCs.

They do. They just know they have to deal with it. Many of those don't want to deal with the "hassle" of being a PC gamer. So, they take what they can and look forward to the next generation.

 

[Spjut]

If you got a better example, please do share.

Here digitalfoundry goes through some of the differences
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-crysis-face-off

Should also be plenty of videos on youtube to look for differences in

While it doesn't make for a perfect comparison, at least the actual Crysis game on consoles run on the finished(and possibly even more refined) Cryengine 3

 

[BlockheadBrown]

image quality

FWIW: The console gamer friend and I were talking just the other day about the pros/cons of the next gen consoles - specifically about image quality:

1.) Will the 720 have better IQ than the Wii-U? (Likely)
2.) Will the PS4 have even better IQ/performance than the 720? (Possibly - too early).

 

[Anarchist420]

I don't know why they don't use power vr so they can save more bandwidth than a traditional depth buffer allows. AMD makes lousy GPUs (and CPUs), even if power vr isn't all that great either.

 

[superjim]

AMD makes lousy GPUs

 

[TheCorman]

They do. They just know they have to deal with it. Many of those don't want to deal with the "hassle" of being a PC gamer. So, they take what they can and look forward to the next generation.

It's been my experience that console gamers simply don't care. I am split 50/50 between console gaming and PC gaming and most of my friends are console gamers. In most cases the PC version doesn't even register on their gamer radar. That's not always the case of course. Some of them would like a gaming PC but they just make all the normal excuses to talk themselves out of it. Mouse/keyboard controls suck, graphics on my 360 are good enough, too expensive, etc.

Also - as someone who plays console games I can say that I don't care about image quality - I care about the games. I recently imported The Last Story on the Wii. The graphics suck in comparison to even 360 games, but I could care less. I got Rayman Origins on the PS3 and Dead Space 1/2 on the 360 (even knowing full well the PC version would look better and support a 360 pad).

Considering how I tweak ini files, overclock, keep my hardware current, and have a nice gaming rig, you would think out of anyone I'd not "deal with it" and just go PC. So I think it's pretty safe to say that a lot of console gamers "don't think about it" as opposed to deal with it.

 

[AtenRa]

I believe the next XBOX and PS will be on 22/20nm and not on 32/28nm.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I wonder why Nintendo went with a 4870 type of GPU over a 5770 GPU? Maybe this will be an RV700 on 40 or 28nm? Exciting times.

 

[Blitzvogel]

I don't think a PC with a X1900 would play crysis 2 too well - while the 360 version is "only" 720p it looks and plays great.

Granted the actual game released doesn't support the x1900, but the leaked Beta did.

Xenos vs the x1900 is a pretty good case for unified shader architecture though, as IIRC the x1900 has a significant advantage in overall throughput, but in practice is only so much better without the efficiency that comes with using a unified shader setup. Of course, the x1900 is a PC GPU, which means dealing with API overhead, but from my experience, API overhead more or less effects the CPU efficiency side of things. PC Graphics I would think are more subject to their drivers.

 

[Arzachel]

Agreed to a point. There are console gamers that have heard how great Steam is and still get anxious over the possibility of having issues with games via Steam. Gabe said that they wouldn't rule out a console, but making one wouldn't be their first choice. A friend who's mainly a console gamer would readily buy a Steam based console, but not a PC with Steam on it. Interesting.

Many of the reasons console gamers talk down pc gaming are simply ignorant or haven't been true for a long time. "Gaming computers cost 2000+!" when you can game with better IQ on an 400-600$ laptop, "Pc games are really fiddly, I want to just play!" When consoles have their fair share of technical issues like RROD's, firmware updates, day 1 patches and dlc etc. Not to mention that with digital distribution, pc gaming is mostly just download and run. "I want to play on my HDTV laying on a couch with a gamepad!" when you can plug the same laptop in the HDTV and using any controller you desire. I guess people just REALLY hate change.

 

[zephyrprime]

I expect Sony to do PS4 conservatively this time with low cost commodized hardware

I think that's what every company is going to do this generation. They are going to go with very mundane, unambitious, un-innovative designs. After the success of the cheap wii last gen, I think all the companies are looking to follow suit. They will also have new forms of controller input like the wii (move for sony and kinect for MS) bundled with every console. They will probably price aggressively for much faster market uptake than the last generation.

 

[WMD]

Don't be a PC snob while I like the PC better myself understand that a GPU inside of a console will perform substantially better than it would in a PC, due to the fact that developers skip the API overhead. Of course the PC is better, but the overall user experience of consoles is great for the _average_ user since they can just pop a game in and not worry about "tweaking" settings. Many 360 games look fantastic, dark souls being a good example.

I don't think a PC with a X1900 would play crysis 2 too well - while the 360 version is "only" 720p it looks and plays great.

Consoles definitely use an API. OGL on the ps3 and DX9 on the xbox360. The games themselves do have optimizations to perform better on the weak gpus but they still look quite bad on certain titles.