Sony Has New Console In The Works, AMD Building Graphics

[Genx87]

Nor was MS with Xbox. nVidia, though they make great GPUs, tend to have horrendous business practices, particularly when it comes to working with other big tech corporations. They piss people off left and right. AMD does have quite a bit going for them on the embedded devices end.

I do hope they use a quad-core APU so that us PC gaming folk quit getting shafted with crappy console ports. Llano or Trinity, I don't care.

I am not sure what Sony's issue with Nvidia is but Microsofts had to do with negotiating a contract that had their cost per unit decrease based on units sold. The problem was MS completely over sold themselves on how quickly the xBox would sell. MS wanted Nvidia to accelerate the contract due to their own screw up and Nvidia said no.

 

[Genx87]

What's the point of buying X console when they all play the same games? Xbox Live is a great service but even I'm too cheap to pay for it when I have a PC in the corner. It will be interesting to see how they differentiate themselves for the next console generation.

Browser? check
Netflix? check
Online store? check
Plays well with other computers? check
Medium-sized display on my controller making Xbox controller look small? che..... huh what? What is the point of this?

That is how I feel about the situation as well. Outside of very few exclusives what difference is there from an end users perspective? I'd go with the one with a cheaper online service(PS4).

 

[skipsneeky2]

Nvidia make good cards but they are also douches.

gtx580

 

[-Slacker-]

Radeons in all the 'big three'? That's a rather fat cash cow.

 

[thilanliyan]

Radeons in all the 'big three'? That's a rather fat cash cow.

They need it!! To make up for their CPU division lol.

 

[ViRGE]

Radeons in all the 'big three'? That's a rather fat cash cow.

Not really. Console component suppliers get paid for their work, but the profit margins are thin. The real profit is withheld by the console manufacturer itself.

 

[Arzachel]

Not really. Console component suppliers get paid for their work, but the profit margins are thin. The real profit is withheld by the console manufacturer itself.

Not really withholding profit, more like not wanting to go into the red more than necessary. These things don't earn anything until well into their lifecycle, unless Microsoft/Sony are going for cheaper parts and lesser technological advancement for the next gen.

 

[Nintendesert]

Not really withholding profit, more like not wanting to go into the red more than necessary. These things don't earn anything until well into their lifecycle, unless Microsoft/Sony are going for cheaper parts and lesser technological advancement for the next gen.

Even then i don't think they really bank on the hardware making them money but make up for it in software licensing.

 

[ZimZum]

Not really. Console component suppliers get paid for their work, but the profit margins are thin. The real profit is withheld by the console manufacturer itself.

They also get royalties. ATI got a flat fee for designing Xbox 360 GPU and they get royalties for every 360 sold. Thats essentially free money for doing nothing. As AMD aren't even responsible for manufacturing the 360 GPUs (they do make the Wii GPU's though).

 

[ViRGE]

They also get royalties. ATI got a flat fee for designing Xbox 360 GPU and they get royalties for every 360 sold. Thats essentially free money for doing nothing. As AMD aren't ever responsible for manufacturing the 360 GPUs (they do make the Wii GPU's though).

Very true. Obviously they get paid, it just isn't big money. It adds several million dollars to their income every quarter but that's about as far as it goes. It's worth their time but it doesn't affect the company's profits in any significant way.

 

[-Slacker-]

It sounds pretty good for just designing a chip (which is usually already an existing design in need of a couple of tweaks), also, AMD can't scoff at any source of profit considering their situation a couple of quarters ago.

Radeons or quasi-radeons in every major console is also a nice PR victory, more so because it does not actually depend on AMD's PR department, which would only mess things up like it usually and tragically does.

 

[Olikan]

Radeons or quasi-radeons in every major console is also a nice PR victory, more so because it does not actually depend on AMD's PR department, which would only mess things up like it usually and tragically does.

yeah...it's more about egos and pride, than actuall money.

actually the only relevant benefit, is to be closer to game developers

 

[pelov]

and maybe finally push openGL/openCL to the point where we can game on linux and DX is but an afterthought...

A boy sure can dream.

 

[janas19]

and maybe finally push openGL/openCL to the point where we can game on linux and DX is but an afterthought...

A boy sure can dream.

You can game on Linux now. Lots of games, but they are mainly indie, and many have retro graphics like pixelated-vector and such

 

[acefightr]

Cant wait! But go PC forever!

 

[Blitzvogel]

Nvidia make good cards but they are also douches.

How so? Both Nvidia and AMD/ATi have their share of duds and winners. If you're talking about Nvidia being douchey over the original Xbox's GPU prices, I don't blame them. It was Nvidia's and MS's first real foray into such a venture, so it's only natural that conflicts abounded when it came to pricing, licensing and production.

What is interesting is that the original Xbox was slated to have an 600 MHz AMD Athlon and while they didn't get the contract, some of AMD's work made it into the actual machine. I can't remember, but I think it was either the northbridge or the chipset with GPU combined that AMD designed to be used with the Athlon. Microsoft liked the feature enough to keep it despite the move to an Intel CPU as Intel was able to afford MS better prices on production silicon.

If Nvidia doesn't make it into a console this next go, it's not all lost. It means Nvidia can focus more on their other projects, especially scientific computing and the Tegra line, both of which are bringing Nvidia notoriety and success that AMD does not possess in those same sectors.

 

[Lonbjerg]

*sigh*

And so the cycle starts all over.
A new lowest common denominator to slow down progress for years to come.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Hmm. It should be pointed out that you can't do an apples to apples comparison of console hardware vs PC hardware playing the same games, while the PC is 10-20x faster in graphics, the API layer adds considerable overhead.

Consider what a meager GPU the xbox 360 has and how great most of its games look. Programming directly to the hardware increases performance a ton. Can the PC do with a 1900xt what the xbox 360 does? Nah.

Upscaled 720p @ 30 FPS with crappy textures, AF, AA, shadowmaps ect. isn't impressive IMHO.

Can a console do what a mordern PC does I.Q wise? Nah.

 

[iluvdeal]

Given their console is going to take a few years to actually come out and when it does, it'll have a lifespan of ~5 years or so, I hope rather they are forward thinking when it comes to choosing the hardware such as the graphics processor and the amount of RAM. Don't look at how much it cost at this moment in time when its being designed, think how much will it cost in a few years when the console is actually in production and 1,2,3 years after its release. Also consider how much will it extend the life of the console by going with better hardware initially.

Choose a midrange processor now at the design stage and by the time it's actually released, that midrange processor is now the lowrange processor.

 

[Granseth]

Upscaled 720p @ 30 FPS with crappy textures, AF, AA, shadowmaps ect. isn't impressive IMHO.

Can a console do what a mordern PC does I.Q wise? Nah.

They are very good at hiding what they can't do with consoles to make it look good, like simplifying shadows and lightning. And you usually sits much farther away so you lose some of the details there as well.

So of course a PC has more hardware, but as with everything else, it's the experience that counts. And people can get a better experience from a console even though the visuals are much worse.

Myself though has a lot of problems accepting that, so I don't use consoles except for kinect/wee/move and driving and fighting simulations.

 

[Lonbjerg]

They are very good at hiding what they can't do with consoles to make it look good, like simplifying shadows and lightning. And you usually sits much farther away so you lose some of the details there as well.

So of course a PC has more hardware, but as with everything else, it's the experience that counts. And people can get a better experience from a console even though the visuals are much worse.

Myself though has a lot of problems accepting that, so I don't use consoles except for kinect/wee/move and driving and fighting simulations.

Then add level dumbing-down/on rails (due to memory constraints), auto aim, regenerative health...and all the other FUBAR crap consoles dragged over to PC gaming.

People praise "casual" gaming all the time...not realizing that "casual" gaming is what is making games to be bland, without an egde...and "everyone is a winner".
Add to that "achievements" and DLC...and you have a good reason for why consoles are evil..and will ruin gaming as we know it.

 

[-Slacker-]

Upscaled 720p @ 30 FPS with crappy textures, AF, AA, shadowmaps ect. isn't impressive IMHO.

Can a console do what a mordern PC does I.Q wise? Nah.

He was just saying that consoles can use their hardware more efficiently than PCs because they aren't constrained by APIs. I don't think there's anyone on this forum who would argue against the fact that a PC game's visuals are better to much better than a consoles or that the frame rates can be much faster.

 

[Granseth]

Then add level dumbing-down/on rails (due to memory constraints), auto aim, regenerative health...and all the other FUBAR crap consoles dragged over to PC gaming.

People praise "casual" gaming all the time...not realizing that "casual" gaming is what is making games to be bland, without an egde...and "everyone is a winner".
Add to that "achievements" and DLC...and you have a good reason for why consoles are evil..and will ruin gaming as we know it.

Agreed. I hate DLC, especially when they are sold side by side with the original product on the date of release. Why didn't they include it in the original product? And sometimes the cost of all the DLC are more than the game itself. So I mostly wait for a game of the year edition.

And the second bonus (besides better graphics) with PC games is the modding community. I've recently replayed Mass effect 1 with alot of texture and gui mods and enjoyed it alot. But it's sad that they don't make PC-gui's for the console converted games like Skyrim. And we have to rely on the modding community to make the game playable.

 

[Lonyo]

*sigh*

And so the cycle starts all over.
A new lowest common denominator to slow down progress for years to come.

You make a good point actually.
If AMD really do ed up with GPUs in every next gen console, that means hardware PhysX is unlikely to feature in any way, since console manufacturers almost certainly won't want to pay for another chip/GPU just for physics.

Which means another console generation with no hardware PhysX ability, meaning continued poor support on the PC market.

It might push OpenCL designs if both the next gen Xbox and PS3 support OpenCL via GPU though. It would make a lot more sense from a hardware perspective to ensure you have a solid GPGPU in your console, because then developers can potentially leverage it for non-graphics work as well where plausible, if they aren't making a graphics oriented game.

All depends on what type of GPUs they use, even if the AMD rumours aren't true.

 

[Olikan]

You make a good point actually.
If AMD really do ed up with GPUs in every next gen console, that means hardware PhysX is unlikely to feature in any way, since console manufacturers almost certainly won't want to pay for another chip/GPU just for physics

bullet physics, may get a great momentum.

but i still doubt it.... game designers, like to create theyr own code