Something odd about Llano and Bulldozer.

[piesquared]

Not always. What was that guy who you were traveling with doing primarily with his brazos system? Watching 1080p movies? No. Doing office work? Than a non brazos system would've suited him just aswell. Case in point. I have a toshiba notebook with an Amd v-140 & hd4250 graphics. I can go 8 hours just browsing the internet before my battery dips into the red zone.




Look I'm not saying brazos is bad. I'm saying that it's use is very limited and it has a small niche market to find it's place in. Compared to the current tech that's already out there, Brazos is not better in performance and is not cheaper compared to what OEM's are charging for it and older tech.

Amd's biggest problem with brazos is it's letting the OEM's treat it like Intel let their OEM partners treat atom at release. 500-1k netbooks with low performance but 'good' battery life. You can't do that anymore. People ain't stupid. The reason I put off buying atom net/notebooks was the performance per dollar was not worth it.

Look, maybe brazos will have a life in the tablet pc arena. Or brazos will find itself in the embedded market. I don't know. But to have Amd advertise 'Advanced Graphics' and not have brazos be able to play games at decent settings, which is what many uneducated consumers who buy a brazos based system will be expecting, will only backfire at amd in the longrun.

It's like you said. Why buy a prius expecting to go fast or buy a corvette and expect to conserve gas?

Wow so Atom sells by the millions but even though the Brazos platform is superior in almost every measurable metric, you are trying to portray it and spin it as a failure? Do you wonder why people object to this kind of FUD? Sure maybe it's your opinion, but if that kind of horseshit influences even one consumer's buying decision, then there is seriously something wrong with the way the internet works. That means FUD sells, and the millions and billions of dollars put into developing these kinds of cutting edge technology is a waste, and all that matters is how well consumers can be conned and manipulated. That's a pretty alarming precident.

 

[tweakboy]

It's going to be a while until we see notebooks with 8 core ... for the record, I believe!

 

[RobertPters77]

Wow so Atom sells by the millions but even though the Brazos platform is superior in almost every measurable metric, you are trying to portray it and spin it as a failure? Do you wonder why people object to this kind of FUD? Sure maybe it's your opinion, but if that kind of horseshit influences even one consumer's buying decision, then there is seriously something wrong with the way the internet works. That means FUD sells, and the millions and billions of dollars put into developing these kinds of cutting edge technology is a waste, and all that matters is how well consumers can be conned and manipulated. That's a pretty alarming precident.

A. Atom had a headstart.

B. I never said brazos was inferior to atom.

C. Brazos success is up to the OEM's if they price it accordingly to the market niche it's supposed to compete in.

D. I'm not trying to sway anyone's opinion.

E. I don't believe in brazos because it's being badly promoted by amd/oem partners/retailers. If an average consumer goes to bestbuy and hears that the amd brazos platform has 'Advanced Graphics' what do they expect? Gaming! They come home install black ops and can barely run it at min settings, then what? Anger and remorse. I spent money for 'advanced graphics' and it cant run x game and y game. Amd sucks, durr. I'll never buy amd again. You have to remember the average consumer is not educated. It's bad for amd in the long run. Don't make promises you cant keep.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Despite the general perception that "Atom is dead" due to Brazos, for Netbooks they have an advantage in two key metrics: power usage and price.

Like everything else, there's an overlap between an Atom Netbook and a Brazos one, but in overall, the power usage and cost is lower on the Atom one. If you don't need the extra video playback or 3D features, and looking for a cheap system, then spending extra $50-100 is pointless.

 

[drizek]

But Atom is dead because performance just isn't good enough. Nobody is buying those netbooks anymore. People will get a $300 regular laptop instead, and those that can afford it will get a tablet, a CULV or a Brazos. Atom has basically been crowded out of the market.

 

[IntelUser2000]

That right there tells you have an hardware forum-er mentality. There really are people who doesn't need more than that, or use an Atom Netbook when they are on the road(for say school) and a high end desktop for gaming.

Quite unlikely you'll be able to get a brand-new CULV or regular laptop for $300. Some of the Atom Netbooks are even under $250.

And most people exaggerate the performance. Yes it is slow, but you'll be able to do regular browsing fine. Most of them are bundled with crippled Windows 7 or XP so it does better than running full fledged Windows 7 or Vista.

How did we go talking about Atom and Brazos in Llano and Bulldozer thread again? We should stop creating threads that are really questions meant to be asked in real threads.

 

[Arkadrel]

E. I don't believe in brazos because it's being badly promoted by amd/oem partners/retailers. If an average consumer goes to bestbuy and hears that the amd brazos platform has 'Advanced Graphics' what do they expect? Gaming! They come home install black ops and can barely run it at min settings, then what? Anger and remorse. I spent money for 'advanced graphics' and it cant run x game and y game. Amd sucks, durr. I'll never buy amd again. You have to remember the average consumer is not educated. It's bad for amd in the long run. Don't make promises you cant keep.

Ever try playing games on a Atom Laptop?

Here is Anandtechs "gameing" results with a E-350:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4218/amds-brazo-e350-msi-x370-sony-vaio-yb/6

Batman: Arkham Asylum - LOW settings - ~29 FPS
Battlefield 2 - LOW settings - ~50.8 (can do medium settings 30+)
Company of Heroes - Low settings - ~44 FPS
Crysis: Warhead - minimum settings - ~21.6 FPS
Fallout 3 - Low settings - ~32.9
Far Cry - Low settings - ~49.6 (medium settings still 40+)
F.E.A.R. - Minimum settings - ~100 FPS
Quake 4 - Low Settings - ~57.3
Torchlight - maximum detail - 45.7 FPS
World of Warcraft - Fair settings - 49.6 FPS


This is all done a on Laptop with a GPU+CPU TPD of 18w.

How much more do you expect? Is there a Atom solution that can do this and not use more power? Short answear = No there isnt.

What happends when people buy a Atom and try to watch a 1080p clip and find out it lags? Atleast they dont have that problem with any of the Brazos systems.

 

[Chiropteran]

That's what I've been saying all along. Netbooks don't need to be able to play games. They would better invest the money in some fixed function hardware like video de- and encode (aka QuickSync) and make flash heavy web pages usable.

The hell they would. I use my netbooks to play games all the time. Just because it's not the latest and greatest video graphic technology and CPU doesn't make it unusable.

If my E-350 hp netbook was $50 cheaper but lost all it's integrated GPU horsepower, I wouldn't have even considered it. Gaming might not be the intended purpose of a netbook, but the option to occasionally play a less demanding game is a very important feature for some users.

Despite the general perception that "Atom is dead" due to Brazos, for Netbooks they have an advantage in two key metrics: power usage and price.

Price, possibly. Power usage? My Dell Mini can't even run 2 hours on a fully charged battery, while my dm1z can run for 4+ hours easily given similar usage.

 

[blckgrffn]

A. Atom had a headstart.

B. I never said brazos was inferior to atom.

C. Brazos success is up to the OEM's if they price it accordingly to the market niche it's supposed to compete in.

D. I'm not trying to sway anyone's opinion.

E. I don't believe in brazos because it's being badly promoted by amd/oem partners/retailers. If an average consumer goes to bestbuy and hears that the amd brazos platform has 'Advanced Graphics' what do they expect? Gaming! They come home install black ops and can barely run it at min settings, then what? Anger and remorse. I spent money for 'advanced graphics' and it cant run x game and y game. Amd sucks, durr. I'll never buy amd again. You have to remember the average consumer is not educated. It's bad for amd in the long run. Don't make promises you cant keep.

Your "E" users are going to load up that game at 800*600, it will run, and that's that. If they know enough to tweak the settings, they should know enough to not be surprised.

 

[exar333]

A builder who would want Bulldozer probably won't give a flip about having an IGP and would want discrete graphics anyways.

I want Llano for building an HTPC like system personally and to experiment with as I've been enticed to go with a Zacate board of some kind, but it's too weak for me to care.

You are mostly right, but it would be awesome to have something similar to SB's quick sync. Esepcially if software was adopted that used both methods for encoding and other actions. It can have a huge effect on very parallel processing.

At this point, I kind of want to build a BD and a SB-E system this year. Should be a fun year for hw enthusiasts.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Price, possibly. Power usage? My Dell Mini can't even run 2 hours on a fully charged battery, while my dm1z can run for 4+ hours easily given similar usage.

You might have a version of the Mini with the 3-cell 24WHr battery.

 

[Dribble]

I would have thought most netbook gaming is going to be flash games, which are cpu only. Doesn't matter how good/bad atom or llano's gpu is for that. Both have cpu's that are a bit slow to do it well however - lots of flash games are poorly coded and need a something more like a 2ghz core 2 duo to run smoothly.

I tend to agree that netbooks are becoming a more and more specialist market. Once you take away the people who really want a tablet, or would be better of with a budget notebook there aren't that many left.

 

[Arkadrel]

You are mostly right, but it would be awesome to have something similar to SB's quick sync. Esepcially if software was adopted that used both methods for encoding and other actions. It can have a huge effect on very parallel processing.

At this point, I kind of want to build a BD and a SB-E system this year. Should be a fun year for hw enthusiasts.

They do its called DirectCompute + OpenCL + APP.
They can accelerate stuff like encodeing video, just like Quick Sync does.

AND... while SB "quick sync" can only do one thing, being video encodeing, GPGPU of the APUs can do many more things, that are accelerated.

HTML5 with GPU acceleration, Adobe flash movies playback with GPU acceleration, Office with GPU acceleration... list goes on.

. Esepcially if software was adopted that used both methods for encoding and other actions.

thats basically what CUDA/DirectCompute/OpenCL/APP ect are for, and what APUs where made to take advantage of. What you just discribed is a APU.

 

[drizek]

That right there tells you have an hardware forum-er mentality. There really are people who doesn't need more than that, or use an Atom Netbook when they are on the road(for say school) and a high end desktop for gaming.

Quite unlikely you'll be able to get a brand-new CULV or regular laptop for $300. Some of the Atom Netbooks are even under $250.

And most people exaggerate the performance. Yes it is slow, but you'll be able to do regular browsing fine. Most of them are bundled with crippled Windows 7 or XP so it does better than running full fledged Windows 7 or Vista.

How did we go talking about Atom and Brazos in Llano and Bulldozer thread again? We should stop creating threads that are really questions meant to be asked in real threads.

15.6" Dell for $300 with AMD Sempron http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?sduid=394559&t=2731125

Someone who wants a cheap computer gets a lot more value out of this than they would from a netbook. If someone is concerned about something other than price, there are better options. GPU performance, Brazos. CPU performance, CULV. Mobility, ARM.

I bought an Atom a couple of years ago, but I can't see myself buying one now. Intel hasn't improved Atom quickly enough and there is competition coming in from all angles. The niche for atom is pretty small.

 

[mrcmtl]

Not always. What was that guy who you were traveling with doing primarily with his brazos system? Watching 1080p movies? No. Doing office work? Than a non brazos system would've suited him just aswell. Case in point. I have a toshiba notebook with an Amd v-140 & hd4250 graphics. I can go 8 hours just browsing the internet before my battery dips into the red zone.

Then using your point of view:
brazos = nile for office work
brazos >= nile in battery life
brazos >= nile in gaming
Conclusion: brazos >= nile in everything

If you want to insist on let's say the toshiba you showed being better at gaming, then we have:
"toshiba" >= brazos in gaming, office work
"toshiba" << brazos in battery life, portability
Conclusion: there are tradeoffs

Grand conclusion: brazos' has its target audience. Whether you think brazos' targets include gaming is up to you. I do not, but I do believe in light gaming for brazos.

 

[IntelUser2000]

I bought an Atom a couple of years ago, but I can't see myself buying one now. Intel hasn't improved Atom quickly enough and there is competition coming in from all angles. The niche for atom is pretty small.

Yep, as I said, there will be overlap.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0355325

There's even a $199 one.