Something is happening with Baldur's Gate! *Update* Ipad *cough*

[Red Storm]

At the very least it is a game where the core market is primarily Gamers. Most 'Gamers' don't consider Ipad a true gaming platform. I would go so far as to suggest that most Ipad gamers are more about Angry Birds, Tetris, Bejeweled and Facebook games than anything even remotely close to a true RPG.

I disagree. Most "gamers" didn't consider the Wii a true gaming platform either, and it ended up doing quite well. I see no reason why we can't have more in depth, old school types of games on mobile devices. Hopefully the BG port will usher in similar works. The developers of Sins of a Solar Empire recently released a report that said being tied down to Windows was probably not in their best interests over the long term. Maybe we'll see a legitimate Sins game in the near future for Android and iOS? The hardware is definitely advancing fast enough, and all Apple/Google needs to do is come up with a standardized controller and they will easily eat into console gaming marketshare.

 

[coloumb]

So I guess this thread can be moved to All Things Apple now?

 

[Dahak]

So if I understand correctly, there's no Enhanced Edition for the PC, it's ONLY for the iPad?!?!?!?!

No it is also for pc as well, the twitter feed mentioned it, just cant fined it atm. not sure how to link to a specific tweet but http://twitter.com/#!/TrentOster if you scroll down you will see he confirms pc as well as ipad 1,2,3

 

[WelshBloke]

This thread has got me interested in installing BG/BGtosc/BG2 and BG2tob on my Touchpad using Gemrb.

I've not kept up with BGTUTU and the like so is there a way of turning them into one big uber version of BG and then sticking them on my touchpad.

 

[thespyder]

I disagree. Most "gamers" didn't consider the Wii a true gaming platform either, and it ended up doing quite well. I see no reason why we can't have more in depth, old school types of games on mobile devices. Hopefully the BG port will usher in similar works. The developers of Sins of a Solar Empire recently released a report that said being tied down to Windows was probably not in their best interests over the long term. Maybe we'll see a legitimate Sins game in the near future for Android and iOS? The hardware is definitely advancing fast enough, and all Apple/Google needs to do is come up with a standardized controller and they will easily eat into console gaming marketshare.

so I think you are miss-understanding what I am saying. The Wii did quite well because it targeted the 'Family' and casual gamer market. Turns out there is a fair amount of disposable cash in that market. However, it focuses on games like Wii Fit and Mario Party, more family oriented games. When they tried to market less family friendly games, they don't do so well. Not that they don't sell at all, but it is a smaller sub-set of the audience that will be interested in them. A MUCH smaller subset.

And i am not saying that BG won't sell a single unit. I am saying that most or all of the fans of the BG series have PCs and would play the game again on the PC. Not all of them have Ipads. So right there, if not all of your market has the platform to play the game, you are shorting your market sales. To put it succinctly, most potential consumers of the game have PCs, and probably only a few of them have Ipads (certainly less than 100% and probably MUCH less). On the other side, most people who have Ipads would not be interested in a game like BG. so the people who want the game don't have the hardware for it. And those that have the hardware for it don't want the game. Not an ideal market space.

so they are putting it into a market where their core targets are not saturated. And the average Ipad consumer (where saturation does exist) isn't going to be that interested and will merely go back and play Angry Birds.

Not to mention the fact that most 'Mobile' games are all about playing for a few minutes and then going on to something else. BG, although you 'Could' play that way, isn't really designed for that. It is more about getting absorbed in a game for hours and hours.

so see the disparity?

 

[WelshBloke]

so I think you are miss-understanding what I am saying. The Wii did quite well because it targeted the 'Family' and casual gamer market. Turns out there is a fair amount of disposable cash in that market. However, it focuses on games like Wii Fit and Mario Party, more family oriented games. When they tried to market less family friendly games, they don't do so well. Not that they don't sell at all, but it is a smaller sub-set of the audience that will be interested in them. A MUCH smaller subset.

And i am not saying that BG won't sell a single unit. I am saying that most or all of the fans of the BG series have PCs and would play the game again on the PC. Not all of them have Ipads. So right there, if not all of your market has the platform to play the game, you are shorting your market sales. To put it succinctly, most potential consumers of the game have PCs, and probably only a few of them have Ipads (certainly less than 100% and probably MUCH less). On the other side, most people who have Ipads would not be interested in a game like BG. so the people who want the game don't have the hardware for it. And those that have the hardware for it don't want the game. Not an ideal market space.

so they are putting it into a market where their core targets are not saturated. And the average Ipad consumer (where saturation does exist) isn't going to be that interested and will merely go back and play Angry Birds.

Not to mention the fact that most 'Mobile' games are all about playing for a few minutes and then going on to something else. BG, although you 'Could' play that way, isn't really designed for that. It is more about getting absorbed in a game for hours and hours.

so see the disparity?

More to the point anyone interested in BG already has a set of discs that they can use to install it already, why would they buy it again?

 

[Red Storm]

so I think you are miss-understanding what I am saying. The Wii did quite well because it targeted the 'Family' and casual gamer market. Turns out there is a fair amount of disposable cash in that market. However, it focuses on games like Wii Fit and Mario Party, more family oriented games. When they tried to market less family friendly games, they don't do so well. Not that they don't sell at all, but it is a smaller sub-set of the audience that will be interested in them. A MUCH smaller subset.

And i am not saying that BG won't sell a single unit. I am saying that most or all of the fans of the BG series have PCs and would play the game again on the PC. Not all of them have Ipads. So right there, if not all of your market has the platform to play the game, you are shorting your market sales. To put it succinctly, most potential consumers of the game have PCs, and probably only a few of them have Ipads (certainly less than 100% and probably MUCH less). On the other side, most people who have Ipads would not be interested in a game like BG. so the people who want the game don't have the hardware for it. And those that have the hardware for it don't want the game. Not an ideal market space.

Here's the thing, they don't have anything to sell to PC gamers. Every BG playing PC gamer has already run Tutu and/or the various mods that make the game more playable on today's hardware. New quests and NPCs already exist as well. That's all they're really doing to the game, so there's little to no point in re-releasing it for the PC. BG Tutu essentially is BG Enhanced.

They've stated their long term goal is to make BG III, but to do that they need to make a name for themselves and they need to make some money. With that in mind, it makes perfect sense for them to make an iPad port.

More to the point anyone interested in BG already has a set of discs that they can use to install it already, why would they buy it again?

My point exactly; why would they sell it again to PC gamers?

 

[alent1234]

Obviously you don't have an iPad or have ever seen the app store

so I think you are miss-understanding what I am saying. The Wii did quite well because it targeted the 'Family' and casual gamer market. Turns out there is a fair amount of disposable cash in that market. However, it focuses on games like Wii Fit and Mario Party, more family oriented games. When they tried to market less family friendly games, they don't do so well. Not that they don't sell at all, but it is a smaller sub-set of the audience that will be interested in them. A MUCH smaller subset.

And i am not saying that BG won't sell a single unit. I am saying that most or all of the fans of the BG series have PCs and would play the game again on the PC. Not all of them have Ipads. So right there, if not all of your market has the platform to play the game, you are shorting your market sales. To put it succinctly, most potential consumers of the game have PCs, and probably only a few of them have Ipads (certainly less than 100% and probably MUCH less). On the other side, most people who have Ipads would not be interested in a game like BG. so the people who want the game don't have the hardware for it. And those that have the hardware for it don't want the game. Not an ideal market space.

so they are putting it into a market where their core targets are not saturated. And the average Ipad consumer (where saturation does exist) isn't going to be that interested and will merely go back and play Angry Birds.

Not to mention the fact that most 'Mobile' games are all about playing for a few minutes and then going on to something else. BG, although you 'Could' play that way, isn't really designed for that. It is more about getting absorbed in a game for hours and hours.

so see the disparity?

 

[sigurros81]

Obviously you don't have an iPad or have ever seen the app store

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

LoL, I like how people use pure anecdotal conjecture as a statement of fact.

I worry that I may already do it too much, but I find myself spending hours absorbed in playing GTA and Final Fantasy on the iPad. I for one am excited about more old school games being re-released on platforms like the iPad. Nothing like vegging out on the couch with a blanket and slaying some evil sons of a bitches up and down The Sword Coast.

Edit: And I own a PC.

 

[WelshBloke]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

LoL, I like how people use pure anecdotal conjecture as a statement of fact.

I worry that I may already do it too much, but I find myself spending hours absorbed in playing GTA and Final Fantasy on the iPad. I for one am excited about more old school games being re-released on platforms like the iPad. Nothing like vegging out on the couch with a blanket and slaying some evil sons of a bitches up and down The Sword Coast.

Edit: And I own a PC.

Do you own the PC version? Have you tried doing the GenRB install on your iPad?

 

[thespyder]

Here's the thing, they don't have anything to sell to PC gamers. Every BG playing PC gamer has already run Tutu and/or the various mods that make the game more playable on today's hardware. New quests and NPCs already exist as well. That's all they're really doing to the game, so there's little to no point in re-releasing it for the PC. BG Tutu essentially is BG Enhanced.

They've stated their long term goal is to make BG III, but to do that they need to make a name for themselves and they need to make some money. With that in mind, it makes perfect sense for them to make an iPad port.

My point exactly; why would they sell it again to PC gamers?

Exactly. The PC gamer market is not going to make them enough money for BG3. And the Ipad market isn't either. I would be surprised if they turn a profit at all.

So this really means that the endeavor is doomed to fail and will take with it any remaining possibility of BG3.

Obviously you don't have an iPad or have ever seen the app store

I don't have an Ipad. I have seen the app store.

Have you seen how PC gamers here thrash Console ports? this is no different. My point stands that a significant portion of the PC community will not purchas an Ipad application. It brings nothing new and a percent of that market (like me) don't have an Ipad to play it on.

So they are marketing to the wrong market, and it will hurt them.

 

[Red Storm]

Exactly. The PC gamer market is not going to make them enough money for BG3. And the Ipad market isn't either. I would be surprised if they turn a profit at all.

So this really means that the endeavor is doomed to fail and will take with it any remaining possibility of BG3.

I completely disagree, and I applaud them for trying to work towards BG III, whether it succeeds or not.

 

[sigurros81]

Do you own the PC version? Have you tried doing the GenRB install on your iPad?

Yep, I own the PC version of both games and all the addons. I don't know what GenRB, actually I sorta do, but it sounds like a lot of work just for me to be able to play a game.

 

[WelshBloke]

Yep, I own the PC version of both games and all the addons. I don't know what GenRB, actually I sorta do, but it sounds like a lot of work just for me to be able to play a game.

I'm having a go at the moment and it doesnt seem too bad. My main hold up was cos I wanted to mod the original game before getting it on my touchpad.

Now I've got to transfer about 3.5gigs of game files over.

 

[rivethead]

Every BG playing PC gamer has already run Tutu and/or the various mods that make the game more playable on today's hardware. New quests and NPCs already exist as well. That's all they're really doing to the game, so there's little to no point in re-releasing it for the PC. BG Tutu essentially is BG Enhanced.

I kind of agree. But I also disagree. I definitely think there is a market out there for BG fans who want a modern, clean version of BG and BG2.

Now, I'm biased due to my experience (I've never played BG2, only BG and that was 10 years ago). But I'm halfway through my second play of BG, this time using Tutu and while the game is visually nice on modern hardware, there are so many bugs (broken quests) that I think if someone came in and IMPROVED what Tutu started, it would be worthwhile to purchase (I know I would). Maybe my expectations were too high, but Tutu has been a really frustrating experience for me. I'm one of those people that likes to do ALL the quests and it seems like at least a quarter fo them were broken (brought ankheg armor to the smith in Beregost...no offer to make armor, nothing, brough wyvern heads to the mayor of Beregost....no reward, returned miner's ring to his family....no reward, etc., etc., etc.).

On top of that installing Tutu was a royal pain in the ass. (degreenifer, GUI mod, etc.). Took me hours an multiple attempts. And that's because it's not a for-sale product. It was created by a bunch of fans on their own time and money, which I appreciate. But the rough edges are there and no one cares because no one is spending money for Tutu.

Bottom line to my long-winded rant: I definitely see a opportunity for a professionally produced remake of the BG games. I'll buy it.

 

[thespyder]

I kind of agree. But I also disagree. I definitely think there is a market out there for BG fans who want a modern, clean version of BG and BG2.

Now, I'm biased due to my experience (I've never played BG2, only BG and that was 10 years ago). But I'm halfway through my second play of BG, this time using Tutu and while the game is visually nice on modern hardware, there are so many bugs (broken quests) that I think if someone came in and IMPROVED what Tutu started, it would be worthwhile to purchase (I know I would). Maybe my expectations were too high, but Tutu has been a really frustrating experience for me. I'm one of those people that likes to do ALL the quests and it seems like at least a quarter fo them were broken (brought ankheg armor to the smith in Beregost...no offer to make armor, nothing, brough wyvern heads to the mayor of Beregost....no reward, returned miner's ring to his family....no reward, etc., etc., etc.).

On top of that installing Tutu was a royal pain in the ass. (degreenifer, GUI mod, etc.). Took me hours an multiple attempts. And that's because it's not a for-sale product. It was created by a bunch of fans on their own time and money, which I appreciate. But the rough edges are there and no one cares because no one is spending money for Tutu.

Bottom line to my long-winded rant: I definitely see a opportunity for a professionally produced remake of the BG games. I'll buy it.

I absolutely agree 'in concept' that taking the original BG/BG2/ToB and updating it to improve graphics, fix broken quests (although this is handled largely by 'Unfinished business') and potentially add new quests into the mix, would definitely have significant value to the PC crowd.

Where I don't think that will happen is in that this is being developed for the Ipad. I don't have a problem with the Ipad and think it is a pretty cool tool. It is NOT a PC. So, quite a lot of stuff that could have been done for the PC upgrade, won't happen. And almost all of the stuff that can and probably will happen, already HAS happened with things like Tutu and 'Unfinished business'.

So while it was being presented as "Enhanced", we are probably not getting anything that doesn't already exist in the market place as far as the PC market is concerned. So most of the PC crowd probably won't buy. And the lions share of the effort will be around porting it to the Ipad. And the number of Ipad users who would be interested, but can't get it on the PC is REALLY small. And even that exists in some format already.

So what are they doing? And how much is it going to cost? And consider the cross over population of RPG gamer PC users who play games on the Ipad and would prefer it over the PC is on the small side (remember the PC 'Enhancements' probably won't be anything that doesn't already exist)? I just see this as really poorly targeted and a simple (poor attempt) at a grab for money.

 

[Qbah]

At the very least it is a game where the core market is primarily Gamers. Most 'Gamers' don't consider Ipad a true gaming platform. I would go so far as to suggest that most Ipad gamers are more about Angry Birds, Tetris, Bejeweled and Facebook games than anything even remotely close to a true RPG.

I am not saying there isn't an overlap. merely that the cross section between RPG gamers and Ipad gamers will significantly limit the purchase.



Understand that the reason most Ipad games are so shallow is because that is what the Ipad gamer market is generally interested in. 95% of Ipad gamers won't have any interest in BG1.

It's like trying to sell a Yugo with a corvet chasis into the High performance Muscle car demographic.

So I revise my former statement. The only way I am not buying this game is if I am dead... or if they keep it an Ipad application.

So... I have a rather fast PC, more than 200 games on Steam... thousands of hours spent in all the games I own... I also have an iPad2 (which I use all the time), I play Bejeweled too (extremely relaxing game). Infinity Blade series is loads of fun too... Does that mean I'm not a gamer? (I've been playing games since Commodore 64 times...)

Seriously can't wait for getting BG on my iPad. Why would I do it on PC again? I already own both games (twice...), spent hundreds of hours in them alone, so many mods too...

Releasing it on iPad too = best news for me

 

[WelshBloke]

So... I have a rather fast PC, more than 200 games on Steam... thousands of hours spent in all the games I own... I also have an iPad2 (which I use all the time), I play Bejeweled too (extremely relaxing game). Infinity Blade series is loads of fun too... Does that mean I'm not a gamer? (I've been playing games since Commodore 64 times...)

Seriously can't wait for getting BG on my iPad. Why would I do it on PC again? I already own both games (twice...), spent hundreds of hours in them alone, so many mods too...

Releasing it on iPad too = best news for me

You can already play it on the ipad.

 

[thespyder]

So... I have a rather fast PC, more than 200 games on Steam... thousands of hours spent in all the games I own... I also have an iPad2 (which I use all the time), I play Bejeweled too (extremely relaxing game). Infinity Blade series is loads of fun too... Does that mean I'm not a gamer? (I've been playing games since Commodore 64 times...)

Seriously can't wait for getting BG on my iPad. Why would I do it on PC again? I already own both games (twice...), spent hundreds of hours in them alone, so many mods too...

Releasing it on iPad too = best news for me

Ok, here we go.

No. I am NOT saying that you aren't a gamer if you play on the Ipad.

What I am saying is, the largest portion of the market for this type of game are PC gamers. For which what is being developed, will in all likelihood offer nothing new that doesn't already exist. And even if they have a PC and an Ipad, they are more likely to play on the PC rather than wait till the Ipad version and shell out yet more money for that.

There is and will be an Ipad market but it will be MUCH smaller. And you can already play BG mobile, so what community there is is further reduced as nothing new.

This beside the fact that a single instance outlier does not disprove a theory. Just because one Republican voted for Obama, it doesn't follow that all Republicans voted for Obama.

 

[sigurros81]

You can already play it on the ipad.

Some people, if they're like me, is not a big fan of jailbreaking. I do that when it's further down the line and I'm bored with my hardware, but a lot of the times, I find the frustration of messing with a modded iPad is greater than the sum of the benefits that I actually care for.

 

[WelshBloke]

Some people, if they're like me, is not a big fan of jailbreaking. I do that when it's further down the line and I'm bored with my hardware, but a lot of the times, I find the frustration of messing with a modded iPad is greater than the sum of the benefits that I actually care for.

Fair enough, I'd rather mod/hack the crap out of all my stuff if it's going to give me some added functionality, it's part of the fun of gadgets to me. I can see that's probably not for everyone though.

 

[Lepton87]

Ok, here we go.

No. I am NOT saying that you aren't a gamer if you play on the Ipad.

What I am saying is, the largest portion of the market for this type of game are PC gamers. For which what is being developed, will in all likelihood offer nothing new that doesn't already exist.

You are right but modding games is a big pain in the ass. I spent half a day modding my Fallout: New Vegas and it still has issues, sometime fps drop to 30fps and don't go up and I have to alt-tab out of the game and in the game again to fix that. Very strange issue.

 

[thespyder]

You are right but modding games is a big pain in the ass. I spent half a day modding my Fallout: New Vegas and it still has issues, sometime fps drop to 30fps and don't go up and I have to alt-tab out of the game and in the game again to fix that. Very strange issue.

Point taken. But will it be enought of a PITA so that people will pay $20 or more? and will every gamer go this route? Some will, clearly.

but if they took the money they are putting into 'Consolizing it' for the Ipad, and instead updated the graphics, fixed the quests and added a few new quest paths like the Castle, I bet that a lot more PC gamers would be a lot more jazzed about it.

 

[Qbah]

Ok, here we go.

No. I am NOT saying that you aren't a gamer if you play on the Ipad.

What I am saying is, the largest portion of the market for this type of game are PC gamers. For which what is being developed, will in all likelihood offer nothing new that doesn't already exist. And even if they have a PC and an Ipad, they are more likely to play on the PC rather than wait till the Ipad version and shell out yet more money for that.

There is and will be an Ipad market but it will be MUCH smaller. And you can already play BG mobile, so what community there is is further reduced as nothing new.

This beside the fact that a single instance outlier does not disprove a theory. Just because one Republican voted for Obama, it doesn't follow that all Republicans voted for Obama.

You kinda got that backwards with the comparison "All true republicans don't vote for Obama" would be your claim. If I found at least one who did and and considers himself one it would mean your claim is false.

And most definitely finding an example that contradicts a theory proves it wrong.

But that's totally besides the point If they only released it for the iPad, I would understand people complaining about it... but this comes to both PCs and iPads, so what's the problem? Does the game need greatly enhanced graphics? Not really - it already has beautiful, colorful scenery. Music? Nope - it's quite epic already. Some fancy new control method? Nope - mouse works great (so will touch I'm sure). Story? Just the epilogue for Viconia

Don't care for jailbreaking either to run it now - did it only for the notifications (got them in iOS5). So I'll just patiently wait for both games to come out

 

[thespyder]

You kinda got that backwards with the comparison "All true republicans don't vote for Obama" would be your claim. If I found at least one who did and and considers himself one it would mean your claim is false.

Except I am not using absolutes. Your example ONLY works with absolutes.

And most definitely finding an example that contradicts a theory proves it wrong.

Um, no. Not really. In fact, not at all. An outlier is something that falls outside a given trend or assumption. one or two outliers do not disprove the theory. Otherwise, someone jumping out of an airplane without a parachute and living would mean that no one ever needed to use parachutes again.

But that's totally besides the point If they only released it for the iPad, I would understand people complaining about it... but this comes to both PCs and iPads, so what's the problem? Does the game need greatly enhanced graphics? Not really - it already has beautiful, colorful scenery. Music? Nope - it's quite epic already. Some fancy new control method? Nope - mouse works great (so will touch I'm sure). Story? Just the epilogue for Viconia

Don't care for jailbreaking either to run it now - did it only for the notifications (got them in iOS5). So I'll just patiently wait for both games to come out

My point is that we will probably see nothing of significance new for the PC platform. So those that already have the disks won't buy it. And those that don't have the disks now, still have the opportunity to buy it NOW. So where is the benefit in coming out with another set of disks that is exactly the same (or only very minor changes) as what exists now? None that I can see. And those that have both PCs and Ipads can still play the PC version, so why would they buy this version?

And the reason that the Ipad initiative is useless and harmful is that resources are being spent on developing an application with a marginal to non existent market. Sales expectations are going to be higher than the market can support (given what I said above). The Return on investment is not going to be there. And Atari/Hasboro will see it as proof that the product is no longer viable, thus killing any possibility of someone later coming along with an actual chance of making BGIII.

Understand now?