Something is happening with Baldur's Gate! *Update* Ipad *cough*

[Martimus]

Except I am not using absolutes. Your example ONLY works with absolutes.



Um, no. Not really. In fact, not at all. An outlier is something that falls outside a given trend or assumption. one or two outliers do not disprove the theory. Otherwise, someone jumping out of an airplane without a parachute and living would mean that no one ever needed to use parachutes again.



My point is that we will probably see nothing of significance new for the PC platform. So those that already have the disks won't buy it. And those that don't have the disks now, still have the opportunity to buy it NOW. So where is the benefit in coming out with another set of disks that is exactly the same (or only very minor changes) as what exists now? None that I can see. And those that have both PCs and Ipads can still play the PC version, so why would they buy this version?

And the reason that the Ipad initiative is useless and harmful is that resources are being spent on developing an application with a marginal to non existent market. Sales expectations are going to be higher than the market can support (given what I said above). The Return on investment is not going to be there. And Atari/Hasboro will see it as proof that the product is no longer viable, thus killing any possibility of someone later coming along with an actual chance of making BGIII.

Understand now?

I disagree. I just bought 3 games I already have again so I can use them on my phone. There os a huge difference between having a game available to play on my computer, which I have access to maybe 2 hours a day, and having it on my phone that I have on me at all times. It is a measure of convienience. The iPad will be far more convenient
Than the computer. In fact I am typing this on my Phone while I am trying to get my daughter to sleep.

 

[StinkyPinky]

What


Is



This

 

[Kalmah]

For BG enhanced to be significant I would want to see these changes:

• Actually re-draw(that is, new art) the areas with higher resolution and/or different art style. Not just a widescreen resolution mod. I want to see something different.

• Use newer technology for visuals. I want to see pixel shading, shadows, nice lighting. (is this possible with 2d?)

• Fix the game mechanics. Did you know that stats mean nothing for a sorcerer? you could have a 6 in all stats and sorcerer still gets full compliment of spells. This is one instance of many upon many problems.

• Better character sheets, level up etc.. need more information within the game.

• Fix broken quests.

I want to see an Infinity engine 2.0. Not another tutu mod. If they only release a stable game for current hardware, do not fix the game mechanics, don't change the maps, visuals, broken quests etc then this is pointless compared to what we already have.

If this turns into a re-package I will be very disappointed. Like many have stated, I find it hard that they will even make money off of this. Not without a major overhaul of the game.

 

[Martimus]

What


Is



This

That is a picture of Jackie Chan.

 

[sigurros81]

Except I am not using absolutes. Your example ONLY works with absolutes.


And the reason that the Ipad initiative is useless and harmful is that resources are being spent on developing an application with a marginal to non existent market. Sales expectations are going to be higher than the market can support (given what I said above). The Return on investment is not going to be there. And Atari/Hasboro will see it as proof that the product is no longer viable, thus killing any possibility of someone later coming along with an actual chance of making BGIII.

Understand now?

LoL. I am interested in your BS and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[styrafoam]

LoL. I am interested in your BS and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

He is dead on though. BG on the ipad will be fun for the people who know what it is and are willing to tolerate the tradeoffs of playing it on a tablet. Most of the average buyers will be put off by the depth of the game. It may turn an eventual profit in the end, but i doubt that this was ever anything more than another repackage to make money from a new revenue stream. The way the hype was built with the teaser info beamdog put out and what we are looking at now make the whole thing seem a little dishonest.

 

[WelshBloke]

I'm having a go at the moment and it doesnt seem too bad. My main hold up was cos I wanted to mod the original game before getting it on my touchpad.

Now I've got to transfer about 3.5gigs of game files over.

Turns out its really easy to get running, as long as you dont go the tutu route.

1)Install gemrb on tablet, run it and rename one file.

2)Drag and drop BG2 files from PC into appropriate folder on tablet.

3)Play BG2 on Tablet.

4)????

5)Profit?

 

[Kalmah]

He is dead on though. BG on the ipad will be fun for the people who know what it is and are willing to tolerate the tradeoffs of playing it on a tablet. Most of the average buyers will be put off by the depth of the game. It may turn an eventual profit in the end, but i doubt that this was ever anything more than another repackage to make money from a new revenue stream. The way the hype was built with the teaser info beamdog put out and what we are looking at now make the whole thing seem a little dishonest.

My thoughts as well. If they really had something to show off about bg enhanced it seems like they would be showing that off prior to announcing an ipad release. I have a feeling that enhanced = compatibility fixes for modern hardware and os. Nothing really enhanced about that. After game mechanic fixes, I'd really like to see a complete graphics overhaul. Keep it 2d and all, but perhaps re-draw the areas. Widen some of the damn hallways. lol.

 

[WelshBloke]

My thoughts as well. If they really had something to show off about bg enhanced it seems like they would be showing that off prior to announcing an ipad release. I have a feeling that enhanced = compatibility fixes for modern hardware and os. Nothing really enhanced about that. After game mechanic fixes, I'd really like to see a complete graphics overhaul. Keep it 2d and all, but perhaps re-draw the areas. Widen some of the damn hallways. lol.

I bet they just steal the community made fixes and better mods, thinly disguise them and release it as their own.

 

[Kalmah]

I bet they just steal the community made fixes and better mods, thinly disguise them and release it as their own.

Yep. This is what I'm starting to expect. I really hope that they will treat this as a new game instead of a repackage.

I guess another indication that this is not what most want, they posted some mockup-pics of bg running on an ipad. If they really were excited about the changes they are making to the game, they would have at least doctored up the mock-ups to look like what they have planned. Instead they look identical to the game we already have.

I'm still holding out though, maybe next week's update will be a nice surprise.

I feel that if this was truly going to be something great, they would be releasing information regarding dnd 2.0 ruleset adjustments, class change information and bug fix lists, scene enhancement samples, animation samples, new cgi for cutscenes as a teaser video etc... instead we get an ipad announcement. So far this looks pretty grim.

 

[thespyder]

I disagree. I just bought 3 games I already have again so I can use them on my phone. There os a huge difference between having a game available to play on my computer, which I have access to maybe 2 hours a day, and having it on my phone that I have on me at all times. It is a measure of convienience. The iPad will be far more convenient
Than the computer. In fact I am typing this on my Phone while I am trying to get my daughter to sleep.

um..

Um, no. Not really. In fact, not at all. An outlier is something that falls outside a given trend or assumption. one or two outliers do not disprove the theory. Otherwise, someone jumping out of an airplane without a parachute and living would mean that no one ever needed to use parachutes again.

One other thing I would like to add. Currently, you can buy all four (BG, ToSC, BG2, ToB) as a single bundle for $16 on Amazon.com. And probably even cheaper on places like GoG. In order for this "New" product to be financially viable, I would imagine that the "Enhanced" version of each game is going to have to sell for a minimum of $20 per game. So, how many people out there are going to pay $40 for the game that they can get for $15? Just so they can play it on the Ipad. Which they can apparently do with the $15 version now.

LoL. I am interested in your BS and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Send me your address and I will put you on the distribution list. The subscription rate is $20 US a month, plus tax.

 

[Martimus]

One other thing I would like to add. Currently, you can buy all four (BG, ToSC, BG2, ToB) as a single bundle for $16 on Amazon.com. And probably even cheaper on places like GoG. In order for this "New" product to be financially viable, I would imagine that the "Enhanced" version of each game is going to have to sell for a minimum of $20 per game. So, how many people out there are going to pay $40 for the game that they can get for $15? Just so they can play it on the Ipad. Which they can apparently do with the $15 version now.

Quite a few. You are being amazingly close minded about this.

 

[sigurros81]

Quite a few. You are being amazingly close minded about this.

I am not going too far out on a limb here if I guess that this guy has something against the iPad? Seriously, who cares. If these guys are re-releasing a an "enhanced edition" game, good for them. Glad to have developers these days that have the willingness and initiative to bring back exposures to classic games. Look at the recent Dear Esther, for a "game", it already made enough money and got people to spend $10 dollars on what ammount to be a 2 hour interactive experience.

 

[thespyder]

Quite a few. You are being amazingly close minded about this.

I am a bit curious how I am being closed minded about providing an analysis which points to why this whole thing is a bad idea. Listening to arguments against and providing cogent arguments and analysis supporting my conclusions. Please help me understand this. Could it be that I don't agree with your point of view and therefore you feel the need to call me closed minded?

I am not going too far out on a limb here if I guess that this guy has something against the iPad? Seriously, who cares. If these guys are re-releasing a an "enhanced edition" game, good for them. Glad to have developers these days that have the willingness and initiative to bring back exposures to classic games. Look at the recent Dear Esther, for a "game", it already made enough money and got people to spend $10 dollars on what ammount to be a 2 hour interactive experience.

I don't have a problem with the Ipad. I already expressed that I think it is a neat tool. Although I don't own one for personal use, they are in common use at my job and I have had ample opportunity to marvel at it's capabilities. However, I say again, it is not a PC and can not stand up to the capabilities of a Gaming PC. that would be like comparing a smart car to a high performance sports car in terms of performance and excelleration. They simply do not compare. Both are perfectly viable choices of transportation but in a straight out race, I know which one I would put money down on to win.

And more to the point, they have vastly different consumers in what they want and expect from the devices. If I, as a consumer, want a machine for gaming purposes, there are a lot more powerful machines out there than an Ipad or a tablet. Baldur's gate "Generally" speaks to hard core gamers over casual gamers. Most Hard core gamers, since Ipads won't run Skyrim at the highest settings, are going to buy and play games on a Gaming PC, not an Ipad. therefore, why pay almost 3 times the price to play a game on an Ipad when you can either (a) play the $15 version anyway with some modifications or (b) play on the PC version?


And I would be thrilled if we actually got a true "Enhanced" version of Baldur's gate. And am prepared to be wrong if we do. However on the face of things based on what we have been provided, I don't see it. And if it fails (something that I consider to be a high probability), it will effectively kill any further opportunities for Baldur's gate III. And very probably any number of other Classic revivals that might happen. And I find that to be a shame.

 

[alent1234]

a Ferrari will beat my CR-V as well but it can't seat more than 2 people and it doesn't have a big trunk

 

[Martimus]

I am a bit curious how I am being closed minded about providing an analysis which points to why this whole thing is a bad idea. Listening to arguments against and providing cogent arguments and analysis supporting my conclusions. Please help me understand this. Could it be that I don't agree with your point of view and therefore you feel the need to call me closed minded?

It is simply because you are not even allowing yourself to see the benefits of having an indepth game on a mobile platform. Baldurs Gate is the perfect example of a game that has complex game mechanics, yet low system requirements, so it should be possible to port to a mobile device like the iPad. I feel that a turn based game would work better (like say Fallout, Civilization, or HOMM) since it will be difficult to use the touchpad in real time the way you would with a mouse and keyboard, but it is a slow paced game and the mechanics are turnbased (although constantly running).

The point is simply that there aren't many complex options on mobile devices that aren't Gameboy type devices (I can't think of what a mobile gaming device would be called, perhaps just "mobile gaming device"). I for one would like one. I have times when I would like to do something more than a simple puzzle while I am stuck somewhere by myself (like on an airplane, or when I am laying down with my daughter trying to get her to fall asleep.) Simple things like Angry Birds, or Cogs, or Drag Racing just don't keep your attention for very long, and get boring quickly. A complex game you can get into like Baldurs Gate on the other hand could keep you interested the whole time you are in the air.

That doesn't mean that the iPad would replace the PC as your primary gaming device, but it just means that there is no technical reason you can't play indepth games on the iPad. I can think of plenty of reasons to play those games on the iPad as well. Saying that people likely already have the game on their PC so they aren't likely to buy it on the iPad is kind of missing the point. The reason for having it on the iPad, isn't to be able to play the game when you are at home with access to your PC, but instead to be able to play it when you don't have access to your PC.

 

[Red Storm]

BG runs on even the crappiest of crappy netbooks, so the performance argument doesn't really apply here. I think it's high time we start seeing more in depth games released for mobile devices, and so I applaud them for porting BG over. Not only is it an opportunity to introduce new fans to hall of fame classics, it also gives us a chance to relive that nostalgia while out and about (and I am increasingly spending more time away from my desktop so I'm really excited about this).

Play some Baldur's Gate while laying in bed or on the couch or out and about? Yes please.

 

[thespyder]

It is simply because you are not even allowing yourself to see the benefits of having an indepth game on a mobile platform. Baldurs Gate is the perfect example of a game that has complex game mechanics, yet low system requirements, so it should be possible to port to a mobile device like the iPad. I feel that a turn based game would work better (like say Fallout, Civilization, or HOMM) since it will be difficult to use the touchpad in real time the way you would with a mouse and keyboard, but it is a slow paced game and the mechanics are turnbased (although constantly running).

The point is simply that there aren't many complex options on mobile devices that aren't Gameboy type devices (I can't think of what a mobile gaming device would be called, perhaps just "mobile gaming device"). I for one would like one. I have times when I would like to do something more than a simple puzzle while I am stuck somewhere by myself (like on an airplane, or when I am laying down with my daughter trying to get her to fall asleep.) Simple things like Angry Birds, or Cogs, or Drag Racing just don't keep your attention for very long, and get boring quickly. A complex game you can get into like Baldurs Gate on the other hand could keep you interested the whole time you are in the air.

That doesn't mean that the iPad would replace the PC as your primary gaming device, but it just means that there is no technical reason you can't play indepth games on the iPad. I can think of plenty of reasons to play those games on the iPad as well. Saying that people likely already have the game on their PC so they aren't likely to buy it on the iPad is kind of missing the point. The reason for having it on the iPad, isn't to be able to play the game when you are at home with access to your PC, but instead to be able to play it when you don't have access to your PC.

I fully and uniquely understand the value of such a game.

What you are not understanding is that the market for such a game would be small. The reason most mobile application/games are simple GBA/DS type games is because that is what the market generally goes for. It isn't generally that 'if you want something more complex, you have to go to a PC' it's 'Most mobile gamers want something light and easy and that you can get into and out of quickly'.

What I have been trying to explain for days is that the market just isn't there. Yes there are some people who would buy/play it but most Ipad gamers simply aren't interested in that. You are the exception. So would I be if I had an Ipad. And I have looked. I own a PSP and a DS precisely because I am looking for that elusive 'Complex and compelling' mobile game. And that is precisely why I won't buy a PSVita or a 3DS, because look though I may I haven't found it. Not because the hardware doesn't support it. But because the community doesn't (as a whole) want it. However, as I have explained, as much as I would love it to be different, the exception does not make the rule.

I would LOVE it if more Ipad and mobile phone gamers wanted more than Angry Birds. I do a LOT of traveling myself and have a gaming laptop in as much as such a beast exists. And I run Baldur's gate on it. I would love nothing more than to be able to sit in the airport and play Skyrim. Only I know that an Ipad wouldn't take that. If it did, I would own one in a second.

And I would love BG3! But I consider the market this is being created around and I don't see a lot of consumers. And then there is the cost. But we have had that discussion.

Maybe I am wrong. But simply put, I see the average Ipad gamer as a 'casual' gamer. Certainly the vast majority clearly are or there would be a whole host of more indepth games for that platform. Baldur's gate is not Huge in the casual gamer community. And even if it were, there is a current solution that, for the price of the PC version and a free app, you can play on mobile devices (or is there a cost for that?) In either case, why pay $40 or more when you can pay $15 for the same thing? Convenience? I see that as an even smaller market.

 

[Martimus]

I fully and uniquely understand the value of such a game.

What you are not understanding is that the market for such a game would be small. The reason most mobile application/games are simple GBA/DS type games is because that is what the market generally goes for. It isn't generally that 'if you want something more complex, you have to go to a PC' it's 'Most mobile gamers want something light and easy and that you can get into and out of quickly'.

What I have been trying to explain for days is that the market just isn't there. Yes there are some people who would buy/play it but most Ipad gamers simply aren't interested in that. You are the exception. So would I be if I had an Ipad. And I have looked. I own a PSP and a DS precisely because I am looking for that elusive 'Complex and compelling' mobile game. And that is precisely why I won't buy a PSVita or a 3DS, because look though I may I haven't found it. Not because the hardware doesn't support it. But because the community doesn't (as a whole) want it. However, as I have explained, as much as I would love it to be different, the exception does not make the rule.

I would LOVE it if more Ipad and mobile phone gamers wanted more than Angry Birds. I do a LOT of traveling myself and have a gaming laptop in as much as such a beast exists. And I run Baldur's gate on it. I would love nothing more than to be able to sit in the airport and play Skyrim. Only I know that an Ipad wouldn't take that. If it did, I would own one in a second.

And I would love BG3! But I consider the market this is being created around and I don't see a lot of consumers. And then there is the cost. But we have had that discussion.

Maybe I am wrong. But simply put, I see the average Ipad gamer as a 'casual' gamer. Certainly the vast majority clearly are or there would be a whole host of more indepth games for that platform. Baldur's gate is not Huge in the casual gamer community. And even if it were, there is a current solution that, for the price of the PC version and a free app, you can play on mobile devices (or is there a cost for that?) In either case, why pay $40 or more when you can pay $15 for the same thing? Convenience? I see that as an even smaller market.

There were GBA games that were somewhat deep and complex. I know I had a few, and I enjoyed playing them.

You are saying that you would find value in a deep and complex game on a mobile platform, yet you are saying that others will not. You think you and I and the others that posted in this thread are the minority, that most people are different and we are special in that we would want this. I don't agree at all. If we can see the benefit of mobile depth, then others will as well. People really aren't fickle and shallow at all times.

People have different tastes, but I have never met anyone that only wants simple easy things in their lives. Those are fun and enjoyable, but you need some depth in what they do. I enjoy quick simple games that I can pick up and put down when I want. However, I have times that I want complex involved games to play. I know that complex games have a smaller market cap than less complex games, and it isn't because people don't like complexity. It is simply because people can only handle so many in depth games at a time, while simple games are easy to pick up and play by the dozens. However, there is a complete dearth of indepth games, meaning that this market, even though it is smaller, is untapped and will produce larger profits than the other larger market since it is saturated. Take specialty games like Gal Civ 2, that made a killing, because it had no competition in the 4X market. It cost ~$300K to produce, yet made over $10M in sales. The market was small, but untapped, so it was easy to make a profit. I would expect the complex mobile game market to be at least an order of magnitude larger than the PC 4X market, so market size really shouldn't be an issue here.

 

[thespyder]

Yeah, there are way to many flaws in that post for me to even begin to delve into it without a wall of text.

Simple to say, the market and mechanics of all of my previous posts escape you. Either that or you have not fully read them as quite a lot of your post directly conflicts with either the content or the intent of just about everything I have posted thus far.

For what it is worth, I hope I am wrong and that BG3 does eventually come out of it. I am not holding aside any money on that bet though. Nor am I holding my breath.

 

[StinkyPinky]

I really cannot imagine the average Apple hipster sitting down to play BG.

They'll get to the character creation screen and just say "forget about it".

 

[OVerLoRDI]

I really cannot imagine the average Apple hipster sitting down to play BG.

They'll get to the character creation screen and just say "forget about it".

Agreed. The people who are interested in BG are old school PC gamers not iPad users. I think Atari/Wizards/whoever is missing their largest target market and truly limiting their potential revenue by limiting it to an iPad only thing. Feels like typical poor decision making by Atari.

 

[Red Storm]

Agreed. The people who are interested in BG are old school PC gamers not iPad users. I think Atari/Wizards/whoever is missing their largest target market and truly limiting their potential revenue by limiting it to an iPad only thing. Feels like typical poor decision making by Atari.

What exactly are they going to sell to PC gamers? They aren't going to do anything beyond making it work for the iPad's screen and implement touch controls. It seems like people are thinking they're going to remake the games. They aren't.

 

[Martimus]

I really cannot imagine the average Apple hipster sitting down to play BG.

They'll get to the character creation screen and just say "forget about it".

The average person who buys an Apple product is not an "Apple Hipster".

 

[VashHT]

Meh I'm pretty disappointed, I'd rather have a PC version with sweet graphics than a touch version of the same game. It doesn't look like they updated the graphics at all from the screen-shots but I haven't played BG in a while so maybe I'm wrong.