Something for the whining, liberal, atheist in here...

[Harvey]

<<So Russ, in truth we aren't insulting Paltroll and KDog because they are a Christian, we are just insulting a couple of dudes that say they are a Christian and are using their supposed beliefs to strike out at those they don?t agree and to be totally annoying.>>

Say Amen!! to brother Red. I knew there was a reason I respected your opinon.

 

Hmmm... Feels like this one's about run its course, so I'll just keep my yappin' to a minimum and start saving up for next week's...

One religion should not be preferred over another in the public school system. I contend that the teaching of evolutionism in schools violates that as well. &quot;But evolution is based on logical conclusions drawn from evidence...&quot; That's probably next week. Christians should get together before the football game starts and pray, but certainly not over the loudspeakers. There is a time and a place for evangelism, and to a full crowd of football fans who aren't there to hear prayer is not that. It does grieve me sometimes, just like many other things that our country's people do, but that's personal. The Constitution must be respected.

 

[Russ]

<< Now how in the world are you going to compare praying in public to swearing in public >>



You can't. Swearing is protected free speech.



<< To be deserving all that have to be is not intrusive. >>



Red,

They have to be &quot;not intrusive&quot;? Interesting criteria coming from you. Anybody else see the hypocrisy in that one?

Russ, NCNE

 

[I'm Typing]

<< I contend that the teaching of evolutionism in schools violates that as well. >>



Thank you for proving how ignorant you are.

 

[DABANSHEE]

Its bizzare that so many American christians beleive in creationism, I'd say of all the self confessed christians I've met in Europe &amp; Australia, virtually every single one of them believed evolution to be the more likely scenario. We even had a American catholic creationist preist who transferred down to Oz, sent back to the US by the Melbourne Cardinal, because he didn't want any nutty preists teaching creationism in his archdioces.

 

[BoberFett]

I'm the one who originally compared public prayer to swearing here, and I see little difference. They're both just sounds arranged into words. Some are offended by one or the other. Where's the difference? Don't listen if you don't want.

Heh, here's a funny thread.


I'm Typing

Not that this hasn't been rehashed on this board countless times, but christians view evolution to be a fairy tale. Not unlike the way atheists view creation. Neither is a proven fact. The only difference is that evolutionists have succeeded in allowing their fairy tale in school while creationists have been pushed out.

And I daresay you're not one to call others ignorant. You routinely show us how high you rank on that scale.

 

[chess9]

Bobberfett:

You were doing ok until you decided you understood the creationist vs. evolution argument. Creationists have NO, repeat after me: NO EVIDENCE, to support the views expressed in Genesis, except the Bible. Evolution relies upon the work of literally thousands of the best minds and research spread over about 400 years. If one were to put the research and data of Creation Science on a scale it would weigh exactly zero. The data in support of evolution would be a million pounds by comparison.

Have you read extensively in the biological sciences? Or are you just blathering to appease your right wing brethren? To equate creationism with evolution is utterly vapid. Among industrialized nations America ranks 14th out of the top 15 in the teaching of the biological sciences. Such posts as yours, and the views they contain, will set us down a hundred places if implemented.

If you want to believe in creation fine, but it has no support in real science.

Furthermore, your implication that people who believe in evolution are atheists is equally absurd. The vast majority of Christians believe in evolution, not creationism. Creationism is religion. Evolution is science not religion. We teach science in schools, and religion in churches. Our Constitution, hopefully, will protect us from the teaching of religion in schools.

Anyway, you showed more than YOUR slip.

 

[BoberFett]

It's unfortunate that evolution has taken on two meanings. The process of evolution, a species adapting to it's environment, can be easily shown. The evolution I'm opposed to teaching as fact is the one where used some people use the evolutionary process to extrapolate that the origin of all life on earth is a puddle of goo from millions of years ago. That kind of evolutionary theory has no no more weight than creation.


<< Anyway, you showed more than YOUR slip. >>

Yes, I do have a problem with that falling down and showing from under the cuff of my pants.

 

[LadyJessica]

BoberFett,

At the very least, evolution has a plausible (if even remotely) physical mechanism. On the other hand creationism = someone snaps his fingers a couple times and here we are.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< Maybe its about time western nations have that law like they have in Russia, where its against the law to go out &amp; actively try &amp; convert others to you faith. >>



This is the kind of belief system that gave the Founding Fathers of the United States of America, powerful motivation to ask God for the Words, to form the Constitution.



<< BTW, what is the difference between christians finding such Anglo-Saxon 4 letter words as sh!t, cvnt, cock, &amp; Fvck offensive &amp; athiests finding christian prayers spoken out loud offensive? >>



I will allow no person to offend me, offence chokes the Power. Slang words that describe everyday activities by Man, are rude and uncouth, but do not in themselves enslave the Man. They are the &quot;red herring&quot; used by the Fallen One and his dupes, to mask the words that will send Man to Prison.

The real words that harm? Those that are not Truth, spoken by a Mans mouth, return to his Spirit, and tighten the noose on the rope, that his god has fastened to the Gallows.

There is a Key.

 

[chess9]

Bobberfett:

You don't understand WHAT evolution means. You are confusing evolution with issues such as common descent, prime causation, and the growth of multi-cellular complex organisms from raw materials.

May I suggest &quot;The Origins of Biological Thought&quot;, by retired Harvard professor Ernst Mayr? It is written for the informed layman and would help you understand the issues.

 

[BoberFett]

chess

I can only speak from experience. In high school biology, everything you just mentioned fell into one big put of mush that the teacher called &quot;evolution.&quot; What can I say, I'm a product of the US school system. Which is fine with me, I'll just bring this back up in the future when you crazy pinkos start claiming how great government schools are.

 

[Rogue]

To anyone who says that atheists in this thread are acting out of fear, you're right. We're afraid that the Christians are going to murder and slay all persons who are not &quot;God fearin' Christians&quot; like they have throughout history. Christians have caused more bloodshed, more suffering and more scourge of the land than any Atheist ever has. We have reason to act out of fear, it's called history. Now, please, don't slay me for not thinking and acting like you, PLEASE??????!!!!! I am really scared now....

 

[DaBoneHead]

Show me a Christian, and I will show you a hypocrite.




But they can say any prayer they want, just so long as they don't try to make me say it with them. Second-hand prayer is just as bad as first-hand prayer.

 

[I'm Typing]

<< Not that this hasn't been rehashed on this board countless times, but christians view evolution to be a fairy tale. Not unlike the way atheists view
creation. Neither is a proven fact. The only difference is that evolutionists have succeeded in allowing their fairy tale in school while creationists
have been pushed out. >>



You are, of course, kidding or sarcastic. If you are not, I feel sorry for you.

PS, calling me (or, more directly, my positions) &quot;ignorant&quot; just because I happen to be diametrically opposed to you is illogical. Just because your views are popular(in this forum, anyway), does not make them right.

 

[chess9]

Bobberfett:

One thing Nazis and Stalinists can agree on: The schools suck!!

My daughter is home schooled, which may be the future of education.

 

[BoberFett]

Red

These threads have a way of getting off topic.

I don't think people like Palco are @ssholes. Confused maybe, but they don't have intent to harm. They honestly believe what they are doing is right.

 

[Athanasius]

<< Christians have caused more bloodshed, more suffering and more scourge of the land than any Atheist ever has. >>



Highly unlikely. Consider Joseph Stalin and Chairman Mao.



<< We have reason to act out of fear, it's called history. Now, please, don't slay me for not thinking and acting like you, PLEASE??????!!!!! I am really scared now.... >>



I agree. Although I am a Christian, I don't want to see any motion by political powers that suggests that one particular religious view better represents the establishment than another religious view. Although using a public adrress system is a far from a blatant violation of the U.S.C. statement, &quot; . . . make no law regarding the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof&quot;, I would be concerned if the public address system was used to offer prayers to Quetzacoatl or some other religious figure.

There was a time when the state mandated prayer to a religious figure. It was called caeser worship. Then, the Christians were the tiny minority that vociferously objected. Branded as immoral and threatening, the Christians were stripped of citizenship and, in many cases, killed.

The opening title of this thread makes it unlikely that any thoughtful discussion will prevail unless rhetoric is toned down. But church history suggests that professing Christians have miserably failed when they tried to use the political process to spread the kingdom of Christ. Typically, the church becomes what it most fears when it relies on politics to teach the Way. It becomes its own shadow.

When the King was here, He eschewed the political power plays. Imitate Him. He came in meekness and grace. He led the way. When He wants to come in power and political might, He will come to lead the way again. Using politics as a sword is pre-empting Christ. It's like Peter cutting off the ear of one of the people who came to arrest Jesus. He who lives by the sword will die by the sword. He who lives by the politcal process will die by the political process.

Christians have very right to urge equal protection, but not special privilege. In a level playing field, truth more easily prevails. Isn't that enough? The one who is favored by the political beast today will just as likely be devoured by it tomorrow.

 

[Athanasius]

Btw, home schooling rocks. Chess9 and I actually agree.

 

[Russ]

<< Show me the hypocrasy in my statement then show me how you are not a Hypocrite using the same criteria. >>



Red,

You state that to earn your respect, one must not be intrusive, yet you are the most intrusive member of this forum. Your entire existence here is founded upon your constant &quot;intrusion&quot; in to threads with only the intention of harassing and spewing venom. You contribute nothing substantial in your constant attempts at self aggrandization, and yet you have the temerity to judge others on that basis.

That is hypocrisy.



<< Tell me, why are you backing KDog and Palco? Why do you thinkl we should not say anything about the crap they spew? >>



The difference is that they attack nobody personally, while you and the other atheists ALWAYS resort to this method.

Russ, NCNE

 

[DaBoneHead]

Russ,


The same goes for republicans. The fact is too many people resort to personal attacks on this forum.


Red, however, never (or at least as I have seen) starts a thread with the intent of attacking another member, or another group.


Sure, the bible-thumping Christians and Jesus Freaks have a right to their opinion, and they should state that opinion. However, they shouldn't do it in a way that immediately attacks a group of people. This is wrong. If they think they will convert and &quot;save&quot; anyone with their lame attacks, they are wrong. They only invite rebuttal.

I personally enjoy Red's posts. IMO he is one of the more enlightened and educated individuals of this board. He also is the most colorful person on this forum by far.

If you need to take offense to something, take offense to someone who would start a thread like this... since it is obviously a flame-magnet.

 

[chess9]

Russ:

Inasmuch as I think Elites should be as adept as possible at blowing each other off, I offer this: &quot;aggrandizement&quot; is the proper usage.

But, I do agree wholeheartedly with Red-which is like Perot endorsing Bush.

 

[Russ]

<< Red, however, never (or at least as I have seen) starts a thread with the intent of attacking another member, or another group. >>



DaBoneHead,

You should pay more attention.

For the rest of you atheists, perhaps I didn't make it clear enough, so I'll repeat it. There is a difference between attacking a philosophy, and personally attacking other members of the forum. Christians frequently attack the philosophy of atheism, but they don't attack the individual.

Most (although, not all) of the atheists at this board ALWAYS resort to attacking the individual.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Isla]

Athanasius speaks with Grace.

If you are a Christian, look to his example in threads like these.

He's got the right idea of what being a Christian really means, at least IMO.

Peace~

 

[DaBoneHead]

Russ,


What makes you think I am an atheist? I might be classified as agnostic, but I'll tell you what I believe... I can walk outside today and within five minutes find enough proof for myself that some master-intelligence is at work, albeit subtley. Do I believe in Jesus, well, I haven't ruled him out, but the possibility is remote. I do, however, believe in a God, but not perhaps as personal a deity as the majority of the religions promote. This from a former seminarian. Yes, 82-83 I was in St. Marks seminary on Grandview Blvd. in Erie PA. 83 it closed down, and they transferred us to other schools, however, I opted out at that time. My initial career choice was Catholic priest.

I find though, that my current beliefs strengthens me. My beliefs don't require a heaven or a hell, as in A lollipop if you are good, and a spanking if you are bad. My beliefs only require that I treat everyone as equals, and that I avoid judging people.

I don't know what that makes me, other than complete. I am not worried about whether there is a Jesus, because when I die, and let's say for sake of argument that there is a &quot;judgment&quot; after all, then I will proudly stand and say that I treated my fellow man with respect, and that I did my best to leave the world a better place than when I entered.

Can we really ask more of anyone?


I do, however, take issue with those who use terms like &quot;saved&quot;. If you took a look at the spread of Christianity, especially it's integration with pagan religions (Yep, Sunday is the day to worship the sun... didn't you know that?), you will realize that to assume because you are not &quot;christian&quot; you are going to hell is foolhardy. It is a pompous assertion of those people who seek to control and manipulate other through the use of fear. Death is a frightening thing for some, so promising a life after death of eternal pleasure vs a life of pain is a pretty good way to get simple people to tow your line. Throughout history, the fastest way to power has been through the pulpit, and that along with corruption of religion is largely why I decided to find my own truth, and not have anyone try to shove their version of the &quot;truth&quot; (or gospel) down my throat.

Ironically, other than going to church every sunday and trying to push my beliefs as being the only belief, I find that I lead a more &quot;christian&quot; life than most christians! As well do many athiests. The reason is that their (athiests) lives are based on the &quot;here and now&quot; and not the &quot;here after&quot;.