Someone please explain to me how North Korea is "no longer a nuclear threat"

[SMOGZINN]

What kind of an idiot thinks China and the US are even close to selling their Nukes.

The fact that we have. Multiple times. I'm willing to bet China has as well.

From Wikipedia: United States has provided nuclear weapons for Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, and Turkey

We can debate on if that constitutes 'selling' or whatever, I think it is selling it just for political capital instead of economic, but whatever we call it, it is proliferation.

 

[hal2kilo]

The fact that we have. Multiple times. I'm willing to bet China has as well.

From Wikipedia: United States has provided nuclear weapons for Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, and Turkey

We can debate on if that constitutes 'selling' or whatever, I think it is selling it just for political capital instead of economic, but whatever we call it, it is proliferation.

I suspect in reality, they were essentially on loan to those countries (remember the cold war?) and that they probably have all been recalled.

 

[VRAMdemon]

I mean... has North Korea even declared its nuclear weapons?

How do you even inspect or verify something that hasn't even been declared?

I'm sure sometime this week Xi Jinping called up Kim Jong Un saying "See, it worked, you owe me 10 bucks."

 

[realibrad]

The fact that we have. Multiple times. I'm willing to bet China has as well.

From Wikipedia: United States has provided nuclear weapons for Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, and Turkey

We can debate on if that constitutes 'selling' or whatever, I think it is selling it just for political capital instead of economic, but whatever we call it, it is proliferation.

The context was on the black market, and not sharing nukes with other countries that are not in control of the actual nukes.

Regardless, you are deflecting. China and the US are no where near Pakistan in terms of their nukes getting out and being used.

 

[Blackjack200]

But we can't put the genie back in the bottle. People have nukes. So our only defense is to also have nukes, which means pretty much everyone else wants to have that defense as well, and the more of us that have nukes the greater the odds that someone will eventually use one. And if someone uses one then someone else has to use that defense and use it back.

I haven't read up on it lately, but I believe there is a fairly developed school of thought that the ethical path forward for each nuclear power is voluntary and unilateral disarmament. One of the central arguments for that theory disputes your last sentence.

For example, let's imagine that we were actually nuked by a state actor. China, Russia, whoever. They nuke NYC, Washington, LA, Chicago, etc. Total devastation. At that point, what is the reason for retaliating? Your civilization has been wiped out, so what's the point of wiping out another? Revenge? You're visiting revenge on a civilian population that had nothing to do with the decision to attack. The only other possible reason is to maintain the credibility of your threat to retaliate, but again, what's the point if you're wiped out?

I mean... has North Korea even declared its nuclear weapons?

DPRK has repeatedly tested nuclear weapons, these is no more direct way to declare them.

The context was on the black market, and not sharing nukes with other countries that are not in control of the actual nukes.

Regardless, you are deflecting. China and the US are no where near Pakistan in terms of their nukes getting out and being used.

That's partly true as the US is the only country to ever use nuclear weapons, so Pakistan and China don't compare to the US.

 

[realibrad]

That's partly true as the US is the only country to ever use nuclear weapons, so Pakistan and China don't compare to the US.

Do you believe that because the US used them over 70 years ago it compares to Pakistan in terms of nuclear threat? Really?

 

[SMOGZINN]

The only other possible reason is to maintain the credibility of your threat to retaliate, but again, what's the point if you're wiped out?

Because if you don't they will just do it even quicker next time it suits them. Then it becomes who is ruthless enough to bomb the other first wins. Once a nuclear power decides to use nukes it is either use them back or welcome them as your slightly radioactive new overlords.

 

[Blackjack200]

Because if you don't they will just do it even quicker next time it suits them. Then it becomes who is ruthless enough to bomb the other first wins. Once a nuclear power decides to use nukes it is either use them back or welcome them as your slightly radioactive new overlords.

I think the idea is that there is no "next time" with an event like that.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I think the idea is that there is no "next time" with an event like that.

That is only true if there is a response. If China and the US got into a spat, say a trade dispute over tariffs, and China went completely mental (or a splinter of their military did) and decided to nuke D.C. to kill the President and no one responded in kind why would they not threaten to nuke London next?

 

[Ajay]

Here is another view.

Thoughts?

http://www.businessinsider.com/trum...ation-bait-and-switch-north-korea-icbm-2018-6

Of course without being able to verify, there is no telling what the status of their ICBM's are.

While I hate to admit it, there are some good points.

Instead, Jeffrey said Trump went in with the narrow goal of getting North Korea to stop ICBM and nuclear weapon testing, and he got it. This explains why Trump settled for the weak joint statement that provided no concrete language on removing nuclear weapons.

"My feeling is that we're in a process that is good, the process of psychological, military pressure, and economic sanctions has dealt pretty damn effectively with the problem Obama gave Trump," said Jeffrey.

It's better than the nothing that, at first blush, appeared to come from the 'summit'. Verification is very important to prevent any forward progress. Anyway, I'll give the devil his due on this one, we appear to be one step closer to our strategic goals as the result of Trump administration strategy. Does the president have the discipline to take us farther? I'm not optimistic, but I feel one must wish him success in this venture.

 

[Blackjack200]

That is only true if there is a response. If China and the US got into a spat, say a trade dispute over tariffs, and China went completely mental (or a splinter of their military did) and decided to nuke D.C. to kill the President and no one responded in kind why would they not threaten to nuke London next?

I think you've kind of stumbled into the problem. Any scenario that imagines the legitimate government of a nuclear armed nation using their weapons against a similarly armed rival is ludicrous.

But take away America's nukes, and is the scenario any less ludicrous? China is in a dispute over tariffs, so they nuke us? I think that what you're trying to suggest if one nation has nuclear weapons and another doesn't, it will be at a disadvantage in negotiations between them. But do we see evidence of that today? There are tons of non-nuclear, non-aligned nations that seem to get along just fine.

The cherry on top is the enormous expense associated with maintaining nuclear strike capabilities. The nukes have a shelf life, the missiles that carry them have a shelf life, you need to devote huge resources to training the people that would use them as well as securing them. If the US unilaterally denuclearized, it would be extremely difficult for other governments to justify maintaining their weapons.

 

[realibrad]

While I hate to admit it, there are some good points.


It's better than the nothing that, at first blush, appeared to come from the 'summit'. Verification is very important to prevent any forward progress. Anyway, I'll give the devil his due on this one, we appear to be one step closer to our strategic goals as the result of Trump administration strategy. Does the president have the discipline to take us farther? I'm not optimistic, but I feel one must wish him success in this venture.

Fake news, this cannot be real. No way is there anything good from this at all 100%. There has been no progress because...

 

[rudder]

This is why would she have elected clinton. She would have quieted Kim Jong Un for a a year or so after doing like her husband and obama and giving thr kim regime money and aid. Trump is an idiot for trying to do something more. And he was even nominated for a peace prize. He is no obama. Obama got his peace prize legitemely... he brought peace to chicago, libya, syria, yemen along with getting Iran to stop exporting terrorism.

 

[Victorian Gray]

This is why would she have elected clinton. She would have quieted Kim Jong Un for a a year or so after doing like her husband and obama and giving thr kim regime money and aid. Trump is an idiot for trying to do something more. And he was even nominated for a peace prize. He is no obama. Obama got his peace prize legitemely... he brought peace to chicago, libya, syria, yemen along with getting Iran to stop exporting terrorism.

Have you considered treatment of some kind?

 

[rudder]

Have you considered treatment of some kind?

Why are you racist and hate obama? You nazi.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Why are you racist and hate obama? You nazi.

Seriously. Have you considered treatment? It might not be too late.

 

[Vic]

What am I missing?

You neglected to drink the koolaide.

 

[skull]

Why are you racist and hate obama? You nazi.

Its funny you and pc geek both have man baby avatars, act like man babys and worship a man baby. Its like you guys know your cry baby bitches and flaunt it.

 

[HomerJS]

Why are you racist and hate obama? You nazi.

You seem to be full of wit and wisdom, explain to me how North Korea is no longer a nuclear threat?

Just checking to see if you are capable of any useful insight.

 

[esquared]

He's pissed now because he isn't getting the praise he thinks he deserves.

"Trump grumbles that North Korea deal not earning wide praise"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-searches-credit-north-korea-nuclear-deal-050451670--politics.html

"The surprise appearance Friday on "Fox & Friends," followed by a combative round of questions with reporters, came days after Trump returned from the Singapore summit expecting a hero's welcome and tweeting that the world now could "sleep well.""

Ha ha. Sleep well? Hero's welcome? WTF? There's no effing deal. Give me a break.
He just wants his pat on the back. effing man-baby.

If and when a deal gets signed and inspections are actually done, then and only then, can he take
credit for actually doing something.

 

[skull]

He's pissed now because he isn't getting the praise he thinks he deserves.

"Trump grumbles that North Korea deal not earning wide praise"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-searches-credit-north-korea-nuclear-deal-050451670--politics.html

"The surprise appearance Friday on "Fox & Friends," followed by a combative round of questions with reporters, came days after Trump returned from the Singapore summit expecting a hero's welcome and tweeting that the world now could "sleep well.""

Ha ha. Sleep well? Hero's welcome? WTF? There's no effing deal. Give me a break.
He just wants his pat on the back. effing man-baby.

If and when a deal gets signed and inspections are actually done, then and only then, can he take
credit for actually doing something.

I imagine working in the white house would be like talking to my dog. Whos my little cry baby bitch? Whos the best little cry baby bitch? Donald is, yes he is. Such a good little cry baby bitch.

 

[Jhhnn]

He's pissed now because he isn't getting the praise he thinks he deserves.

"Trump grumbles that North Korea deal not earning wide praise"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-searches-credit-north-korea-nuclear-deal-050451670--politics.html

"The surprise appearance Friday on "Fox & Friends," followed by a combative round of questions with reporters, came days after Trump returned from the Singapore summit expecting a hero's welcome and tweeting that the world now could "sleep well.""

Ha ha. Sleep well? Hero's welcome? WTF? There's no effing deal. Give me a break.
He just wants his pat on the back. effing man-baby.

If and when a deal gets signed and inspections are actually done, then and only then, can he take
credit for actually doing something.

I'll grant that Trump has created a thaw in our relationship with the DPRK. Whether anything will really come of it remains to be seen.

 

[skull]

I'll grant that Trump has created a thaw in our relationship with the DPRK. Whether anything will really come of it remains to be seen.

The best greatest condos on the greatest beach you've ever seen and maybe a natural gas pipeline from russia or something.

 

[esquared]

Now the cheeto-in-charge is doubling down on stupid. This is today's tweet.
Damn delusional bastard.

"Trump defends North Korea summit, trashes media: 'We got so much for peace in the world'"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-de...hes-media-got-much-peace-world-142356573.html

 

[SMOGZINN]

I'll grant that Trump has created a thaw in our relationship with the DPRK. Whether anything will really come of it remains to be seen.

Of course there was a thaw in our relationship with DPRK, we basically gave them what they wanted and asked for nothing but a vague statement on disarmament that amounts to 'we will think about it.' The language of the deal does not even contain a requirement that they stop doing missile tests while we negotiate.