Hell bent on screwing us over.. no? They cut corners on every facet of the well creation... yet they aren't hellbent on screwing us over?
Hell bent on screwing us over.. no? They cut corners on every facet of the well creation... yet they aren't hellbent on screwing us over?
America, I would like to apologize for Rep Joe Barton. I think it is a tragedy of the first proportion that one of our public officials can be purchased so easily and would actively work against American citizens on behalf of his campaign contributors.
I was talking about the politics of it, not the actual merits. Partisan politics means you exploit every issue for political gain. However, in this particular case, defending BP is not a political gain but rather a political loss. If this is partisan politics, and I think it is, it's not being very well played.
- wolf
Reps like Michele Bachmann ain't what you would call representative of any rational thought ---- be it Con or Dim.
They are simply pandering to the extreme Nutter Wing ... their ""base"" (which most likely consists of the fringe 'black helicopter' crowd cowering in their fallout shelters).
--
They are simply pandering to the extreme Nutter Wing ... their ""base"" (which most likely consists of the fringe 'black helicopter' crowd cowering in their fallout shelters).
--
I'd love for some of these folks to come down here to FL, LA, or AL and explain how it's a shakedown, if they're still breathing after 30 seconds that is.
Not sure why a $20B shakedown of BP is needed. Just tell them they, or anyone affliliated with them, will not be able to sell anything in the US - ever - if they do not handle this situation to our satisfaction. Properties owned by them will be seized and rented out to non-BP highest bidder until the situation has been handled to our satisfaction, and only then will it be placed onto the open market for bidding to the highest bidder.
$20B or whatever cost vs. never operating with the US again.....I think they'll make the proper choice.
Chuck
$20B or whatever cost vs. never operating with the US again.....I think they'll make the proper choice.
Chuck
QuantumPion
Diamond Member
- Jun 27, 2005
- 6,010
- 1
- 76
So extortion is OK if the victim pays up?
The president can direct the various regulatory agencies to evoke all of BP's drilling and refining permits in the entire country, totally shutting them down. No court trial required.
theeedude
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
- 35,787
- 6,198
- 126
It's OK if the perpetrator pays up.
Wrong! BP could take the Federal government to court to challenge the legality of such action.
The 'Obama shook down BP' is classic propaganda.
It fits the Republican party's talking points - the Democrat is someone who does nothing but try to take your money to give to others, and that's what he did with BP.
It's an example of 'propaganda gone wild', when they don't know when to quit. The President takes a very popular action for the public against BP - but they have to attack.
Just as Al Gore's strong argument why he'd be a good president that he was a key politician fighitng to create the internet was turned into an attack by saying (falsely) that he lied and claimed he invented it personally - a lie so outrageous you would (wrongly) think the public could not be fooled by it - it lets them attack Obama instead of let him 'score points'.
The thing it to fight such propaganda by such terrible political forces that they pursue power for bad public policy whoever it hurts and point out their corruption.
It fits the Republican party's talking points - the Democrat is someone who does nothing but try to take your money to give to others, and that's what he did with BP.
It's an example of 'propaganda gone wild', when they don't know when to quit. The President takes a very popular action for the public against BP - but they have to attack.
Just as Al Gore's strong argument why he'd be a good president that he was a key politician fighitng to create the internet was turned into an attack by saying (falsely) that he lied and claimed he invented it personally - a lie so outrageous you would (wrongly) think the public could not be fooled by it - it lets them attack Obama instead of let him 'score points'.
The thing it to fight such propaganda by such terrible political forces that they pursue power for bad public policy whoever it hurts and point out their corruption.
epidemis
Senior member
- Jun 6, 2007
- 794
- 0
- 0
Accidents happens, people. it's partly because you stupid americans drive your hummers and SUVs.
I can't be the only that feel BP is getting lynched. Now everyone and their dog groomer is smelling blood and is piling on to BP. Regardless that nothing has been established whatsoever.
I can't be the only that feel BP is getting lynched. Now everyone and their dog groomer is smelling blood and is piling on to BP. Regardless that nothing has been established whatsoever.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/17/AR2010061703756.html?hpid=topnews
It looks like the R's are at least smart enough to figure out this is a stupid stance to take.
Yup. Too bad that the reason they're backing off it isn't because it's wrong, but because it's bad politics, and their ideology would otherwise support it.
werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
- 29,873
- 463
- 126
I totally agree. This is a shakedown, but a totally justified one in my opinion, and a smart move for BP as well. I completely agree with getting the money in escrow, so to speak, up front, just so that in the unlikely event BP does go Tango Uniform over this we've got twenty billion to defray expenses. But regardless of whether or not you think BP is getting the shaft, it's incredibly stupid for a politician to say so. Also, Obama has been incredibly slow on the line on the spill. Now he has the chance to shine by setting up a payment process that starts paying people BEFORE they lose their homes and boats and businesses, and BP gets to look at least a bit less like irresponsible sociopaths. Everybody wins - except those Republican politicians stupid enough to denounce it. Somebody needs to tell these guys that sometimes you have to let the other side win to avoid penalizing the country.
I'd like to think it is principle speaking, but it's much more likely that it's simply become habit to take the opposite stance from Obama and that habit inevitably led them into a circular firing squad. There simply can't be a political analyst that thinks bashing this move - which is not even taking BP's money, but merely setting up an escrow account that will undoubtedly be only part of the final bill - is a winning move politically. Politicians though are always at risk of confusing the noise of the echo chamber with the cries of the adoring public. Should these Republicans get bitch slapped it will hopefully help them learn to think before bitching.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
Maybe none of you quite understand how Obama, just with his POTUS bully pulpit quite pulled off this BP voluntary compliance.
Was it Obama himself or was it this little guy with with total gilt edge US existing law authority called Admiral Thad Allan standing behind Obama with this big loaded gun pointed straight at BP's head that turned the trick.
If the oil spill is by land its the interior department in total charge, if by sea, its the coast guard in charge, Obama may be that Paul Revere that says the British fucked up, but its the Coast Guard who has the big guns legal authority.
But then again, Obama is commander and chief of the Coast Guard, and BP knows it.
All Obama has to do is speak softly and carry a big stick.
Was it Obama himself or was it this little guy with with total gilt edge US existing law authority called Admiral Thad Allan standing behind Obama with this big loaded gun pointed straight at BP's head that turned the trick.
If the oil spill is by land its the interior department in total charge, if by sea, its the coast guard in charge, Obama may be that Paul Revere that says the British fucked up, but its the Coast Guard who has the big guns legal authority.
But then again, Obama is commander and chief of the Coast Guard, and BP knows it.
All Obama has to do is speak softly and carry a big stick.
Danube
Banned
- Dec 10, 2009
- 613
- 0
- 0
This is the same crew (Dems) that's dropped many show trials and hearings before. Nostrilman demanded insurance company records about excec vacations and salaries just to intimidate companies during health-care push. They also demanded hearings when companies took write-offs over health-care costs (Nostrilman dropped hearings when papers showed companies discussed dropping health insurance for workers).
Obama of course mugged Chrysler investors and offered them 24% of what was owed them (they were due 100% as senior investors - they said they would have settled for 60%). Obama demonized them as selfish for complaining about being ripped off so unions could get more than what was due them.
Truth is Obama sand this group of Dems are the most corrupt group of scumbags in American history. They LIKE the spill. Benedict Arnold had more integrity.
Obama of course mugged Chrysler investors and offered them 24% of what was owed them (they were due 100% as senior investors - they said they would have settled for 60%). Obama demonized them as selfish for complaining about being ripped off so unions could get more than what was due them.
Truth is Obama sand this group of Dems are the most corrupt group of scumbags in American history. They LIKE the spill. Benedict Arnold had more integrity.
epidemis
Senior member
- Jun 6, 2007
- 794
- 0
- 0
Have you defenders not read the emails that were released?
ABC
******************************
"Separate email exchanges also reveal corners BP cut in a crucial safety device.
Centralizers are important mechanisms for insuring the casing runs straight through the well bore. It has been previously revealed in congressional testimony that Halliburton recommended 21 centralizers be used at this site, but ultimately, BP only used six. In the early morning of April 16, four days before the explosion, BP official Gregory Waltz identifies modeling data provided by Halliburton requiring additional centralizers. In response, Waltz emails colleagues, "We have located 15 Weatherford centralizers with stop collars."
Waltz's inquiry of the available centralizers is squashed that afternoon by John Guide, who writes in response, "I just found out the stop collars are not part of the centralizer as you stated. Also it will take 10 hours to install them ... I do not like this ... I am very concerned about using them."
In a separate conversation, also on April 16, BP official Brett Cocales at once emphasizes the centralizers' importance while shrugging off BP's neglect of them.
"Even if the hole is perfectly straight, a straight piece of pipe even in tension will not seek the perfect center of the hole unless it has something to centralize it," Cocales wrote. "But, who cares, it's done, end of story, will probably be fine and we'll get a good cement job... So Guide is right on the risk/reward equation."
Four days later an explosion killed 11 workers on the Deepwater Horizon and oil began gushing into the Gulf of Mexico."
******************************************************
How these scum aren't in handcuffs is really baffling.
As for Barton - what a weak "apology", his words weren't misconstrued, he thought very carefully about each and every word. He should be forced out of his committee seat for that world class blowjob.
The cynic in me would think that the R's were just focus group testing for Nov to see if that would fly and Barton has 100% chance of being re-elected so there's very little to lose.
Sorry guys, that one is a loser.
ABC
******************************
"Separate email exchanges also reveal corners BP cut in a crucial safety device.
Centralizers are important mechanisms for insuring the casing runs straight through the well bore. It has been previously revealed in congressional testimony that Halliburton recommended 21 centralizers be used at this site, but ultimately, BP only used six. In the early morning of April 16, four days before the explosion, BP official Gregory Waltz identifies modeling data provided by Halliburton requiring additional centralizers. In response, Waltz emails colleagues, "We have located 15 Weatherford centralizers with stop collars."
Waltz's inquiry of the available centralizers is squashed that afternoon by John Guide, who writes in response, "I just found out the stop collars are not part of the centralizer as you stated. Also it will take 10 hours to install them ... I do not like this ... I am very concerned about using them."
In a separate conversation, also on April 16, BP official Brett Cocales at once emphasizes the centralizers' importance while shrugging off BP's neglect of them.
"Even if the hole is perfectly straight, a straight piece of pipe even in tension will not seek the perfect center of the hole unless it has something to centralize it," Cocales wrote. "But, who cares, it's done, end of story, will probably be fine and we'll get a good cement job... So Guide is right on the risk/reward equation."
Four days later an explosion killed 11 workers on the Deepwater Horizon and oil began gushing into the Gulf of Mexico."
******************************************************
How these scum aren't in handcuffs is really baffling.
As for Barton - what a weak "apology", his words weren't misconstrued, he thought very carefully about each and every word. He should be forced out of his committee seat for that world class blowjob.
The cynic in me would think that the R's were just focus group testing for Nov to see if that would fly and Barton has 100% chance of being re-elected so there's very little to lose.
Sorry guys, that one is a loser.
werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
- 29,873
- 463
- 126
I'm no oil engineer either, but the purpose of centralizers is pretty simple. The name says it - centralizers center the inner pipe within the outer casing or the well bore, depending on the type of drilling process. As the pipe naturally has some sway in it, centralizers help keep it straight and centered. Both are very important, the former because a pipe kinked even slightly has higher pressure on its outside radius. When the pipe is not straight, pressure from within the piping exerts some up force and lateral force beyond that calculated from its fluid resistance. And the latter is important because the concrete needs to be even all around the pipe to maintain an even pressure. The concrete has to be rated to a certain strength based on the pressure and the distance it must span, so if the pipe is off-center then one side of the concrete is stressed more than its calculated design load. It may also set up more slowly, although maybe not, I don't know that much about catalyst use in concrete even on land. Similar devices are used for land wells for various purposes where an outer casing is driven into the ground and then an inner pressure pipe is inserted, but there you're mostly concerned about joint leaks. In an underwater well, especially deep water, you're dealing with huge pressures and an off-centered pipe throws in a continuous side load. Had this well not had incredibly high internal pressure there probably would never have been a problem - but that's why you have safety factors, to prevent unexpected factors from causing failure. BP apparently thinks safety factors are there to give the appearance of saving money by cutting them.
This also points to some potential liability on Halliburton's part; if you recommend twenty-one but do the job with only six, you're arguably aiding the catastrophe that follows, for if no one would do the concrete pour with six centralizers in place then the well could not proceed and the explosion never would have happened.
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