Some Republicans consider BP deal a U.S. "shakedown"

[glenn1]

BP had every right to tell Obama to take a hike, and they won't pay a dime until forced by a court. They chose to pony up now as opposed to dragging it out for years and taking a giant well-deserved PR hit.

Shakedown not found.

Why am I not surprised that most folks here only see the $20B figure, and don't think beyond that. The BP board of directors and CEO have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders, and wouldn't have agreed to this deal if there wasn't something in it for them. And that something is that BP will be able to claim the funds devoted to the "voluntary escrow account" against their future taxable income as an expense (whereas they would not have been if it had been assessed as a fine). Effectively, most of the $20B will be taxpayer money. as it will represent taxes never paid on the monies put into the fund. On the flip side, Obama gets to sound tough and gets a multi-billion dollar slug of cash that they'll be able to effectively control and dish out to favored persons and claim credit for. So as typical, the government is effectively bribing the American people with its own tax money, and the folks here cheer.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Have you defenders not read the emails that were released?

ABC
******************************
"Separate email exchanges also reveal corners BP cut in a crucial safety device.

Centralizers are important mechanisms for insuring the casing runs straight through the well bore. It has been previously revealed in congressional testimony that Halliburton recommended 21 centralizers be used at this site, but ultimately, BP only used six. In the early morning of April 16, four days before the explosion, BP official Gregory Waltz identifies modeling data provided by Halliburton requiring additional centralizers. In response, Waltz emails colleagues, "We have located 15 Weatherford centralizers with stop collars."

Waltz's inquiry of the available centralizers is squashed that afternoon by John Guide, who writes in response, "I just found out the stop collars are not part of the centralizer as you stated. Also it will take 10 hours to install them ... I do not like this ... I am very concerned about using them."

In a separate conversation, also on April 16, BP official Brett Cocales at once emphasizes the centralizers' importance while shrugging off BP's neglect of them.

"Even if the hole is perfectly straight, a straight piece of pipe even in tension will not seek the perfect center of the hole unless it has something to centralize it," Cocales wrote. "But, who cares, it's done, end of story, will probably be fine and we'll get a good cement job... So Guide is right on the risk/reward equation."

Four days later an explosion killed 11 workers on the Deepwater Horizon and oil began gushing into the Gulf of Mexico."

******************************************************

How these scum aren't in handcuffs is really baffling.

As for Barton - what a weak "apology", his words weren't misconstrued, he thought very carefully about each and every word. He should be forced out of his committee seat for that world class blowjob.

The cynic in me would think that the R's were just focus group testing for Nov to see if that would fly and Barton has 100% chance of being re-elected so there's very little to lose.

Sorry guys, that one is a loser.

Yup.

I don't care how many times he claimed to be speaking for himself ---- no way anyone could ""misconstrue"" what he said.





--

 

[chucky2]

I'm no oil engineer either, but the purpose of centralizers is pretty simple. The name says it - centralizers center the inner pipe within the outer casing or the well bore, depending on the type of drilling process. As the pipe naturally has some sway in it, centralizers help keep it straight and centered. Both are very important, the former because a pipe kinked even slightly has higher pressure on its outside radius. When the pipe is not straight, pressure from within the piping exerts some up force and lateral force beyond that calculated from its fluid resistance. And the latter is important because the concrete needs to be even all around the pipe to maintain an even pressure. The concrete has to be rated to a certain strength based on the pressure and the distance it must span, so if the pipe is off-center then one side of the concrete is stressed more than its calculated design load. It may also set up more slowly, although maybe not, I don't know that much about catalyst use in concrete even on land. Similar devices are used for land wells for various purposes where an outer casing is driven into the ground and then an inner pressure pipe is inserted, but there you're mostly concerned about joint leaks. In an underwater well, especially deep water, you're dealing with huge pressures and an off-centered pipe throws in a continuous side load. Had this well not had incredibly high internal pressure there probably would never have been a problem - but that's why you have safety factors, to prevent unexpected factors from causing failure. BP apparently thinks safety factors are there to give the appearance of saving money by cutting them.

This also points to some potential liability on Halliburton's part; if you recommend twenty-one but do the job with only six, you're arguably aiding the catastrophe that follows, for if no one would do the concrete pour with six centralizers in place then the well could not proceed and the explosion never would have happened.

Cool, thanks for the explanation!

Chuck

 

[werepossum]

Why am I not surprised that most folks here only see the $20B figure, and don't think beyond that. The BP board of directors and CEO have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders, and wouldn't have agreed to this deal if there wasn't something in it for them. And that something is that BP will be able to claim the funds devoted to the "voluntary escrow account" against their future taxable income as an expense (whereas they would not have been if it had been assessed as a fine). Effectively, most of the $20B will be taxpayer money. as it will represent taxes never paid on the monies put into the fund. On the flip side, Obama gets to sound tough and gets a multi-billion dollar slug of cash that they'll be able to effectively control and dish out to favored persons and claim credit for. So as typical, the government is effectively bribing the American people with its own tax money, and the folks here cheer.

Certainly the money will be written off as an expense - it IS an expense. That doesn't make it tax money. Government does not automatically have a claim to all money. And I predict BP is looking at some very steep fines as well, if only because that $75 million cap (seriously, WTF?) probably doesn't apply if there is willful negligence.

Still, this is a good thing. People can get their claims in before they face bankruptcy, before they lose homes and businesses and boats, before they have to lay off workers and stop spending, before towns collapse. And hopefully BP can give some of them employment now rather than compensation later. I'm no fan of Obama, but if he does a good thing and looks good - well, you're supposed to look good if you do the right thing.

 

[Patranus]

that's why we have courts. If people are wronged they go to court to seek redress. Not the administration telling a company to pay up or face tougher consequences.

qft

 

[Lemon law]

Well if nothing else we can say, Joe Barton blew it big time, as even the GOP rushed forward to dope slap him.

Pure comedy gold. Someone has to play the part of the fool, there is no story in that once upon a time they lived happily ever after without the needed villain.

 

[Mani]

This is an issue that the dems can take and ride like immigration was for the republicans. Public is overwhelmingly in favor of playing hardball with BP over this and the republicans trying to play sympathy for BP just makes them look idiotic. I know their strategy is to simply criticize Obama on every single thing he does in an effort to undermine him, but stuff like this will backfire.

 

[Siddhartha]

House Conservatives Call Escrow Account 'Chicago Style Shakedown'

Once again the GOP has provided another example of their differences from Mr Obama. Their sympathies lie with the Oil company that is responsible for the worse ecological disaster in this part of the world in the last couple of decades.

What is the official GOP stance on the Gulf Oil leak? Accidents will happen?

 

[cubby1223]

*sigh*

This forum continues to fall to even more pathetic measures. The means are just as important as the end results.

 

[Siddhartha]

qft

Who can afford the best lawyers and has the deepest pockets for keeping lawsuits in the courts?

 

[Moonbeam]

This is an issue that the dems can take and ride like immigration was for the republicans. Public is overwhelmingly in favor of playing hardball with BP over this and the republicans trying to play sympathy for BP just makes them look idiotic. I know their strategy is to simply criticize Obama on every single thing he does in an effort to undermine him, but stuff like this will backfire.

Well it will backfire if the public, in an irrational rage, supports extortion. But that won't make it right. That would be wrong.

The Pres has to do what is right and if telling folk they are a bunch of raging vigilante loons he should do so. You should always do what is right and never what is wrong though politically correct. If Obama can't do that he should quit.

The 20 billion deal is a plus for BP, in my opinion even a win win.

 

[dmcowen674]

This is an issue that the dems can take and ride like immigration was for the republicans. Public is overwhelmingly in favor of playing hardball with BP over this and the republicans trying to play sympathy for BP just makes them look idiotic.

I know their strategy is to simply criticize Obama on every single thing he does in an effort to undermine him, but stuff like this will backfire.

Looks like it's working to me. I have people at work talking all the time and they are all saying all of this is Obama's fault.

Mission Accomplished for Republicans.

 

[ayabe]

Yes yes let's leave it to the courts.

"Exxon today has proven the benefits of the endless appeal. After spending hundreds of millions of dollars fighting the $5 billion punitive damage award handed down by an Alaska jury in 1994 for its role in the massive oil spill in Prince William Sound, Exxon today landed a major victory at the Supreme Court. In a 5-3 ruling, with Alito sitting out, the court overturned a lower court decision that had reduced the verdict to $2.5 billion, and sent the case back saying that the punitive damage award was excessive and should not exceed about $500 million, the same as the compensatory damages."

MJ June 25 2008

I'm not sure the residents of the Gulf can wait 20 years to get screwed with many of claimants dying off along the way.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Accidents happens, people. it's partly because you stupid americans drive your hummers and SUVs.

I can't be the only that feel BP is getting lynched. Now everyone and their dog groomer is smelling blood and is piling on to BP. Regardless that nothing has been established whatsoever.

ROFL... yea, it's our fault bp has THE worst safety record, did a total shit job trying to get it repaired asap, and DEFINITELY our fault their CEO tried to tuck and roll and avoid the truth.
Getting lynched,right...
Get a clue dingus.

 

[epidemis]

Get a prius before you begin trowing stones, redneck

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Get a prius before you begin trowing stones, redneck

Redneck? LOL, ok, right. Keep on talking, you're doing great as a mouthpiece for bp, the kind they deserve. And I'll keep my trowing to a minimum

 

[rudder]

Hey OP...

I am not reading all the replies... can you answer this... How does one equal some?

He was forced to apologize or lost his committee standing... by the Republicans.

 

[dank69]

hey op...

I am not reading all the replies... Can you answer this... How does one equal some?

He was forced to apologize or lost his committee standing... By the republicans.

adhd?

barton not alone
but barton was not alone among republicans who question the $20 billion fund.
Georgia representative tom price, chairman of the republican study committee, a group of conservative house members, issued a statement arguing the same point.
Price said bp's willingness to go along with the white house's new fund suggests that the obama administration is "hard at work exerting its brand of chicago-style shakedown politics."
and former texas republican representative dick armey, who was house majority leader and is a leading voice in the conservative tea party movement, told a christian science monitor breakfast this week that obama lacks the constitutional authority to set up such a fund.
In addition, conservative republican representative michele bachmann of minnesota told the heritage foundation think tank that the escrow account was a "redistribution-of-wealth fund."

 

[Siddhartha]

House Conservatives Call Escrow Account 'Chicago Style Shakedown'

Check out the link above.

 

[kage69]

Get a prius before you begin trowing stones, redneck

No, you get a clue before prosting.

I am not reading

Yeah might want to engage in a little of that first before jumping to conclusions..just saying.


GOP should be illustrating to the public that they care more about the residents of the Gulf's affected areas than scoring cheap political points against Obama, or sucking up to the big oil teat. This is going to bite them in the ass, hard, and they have no one to blame but themselves. Will level-headed repubs reign in their idiot brethren in time, guess we'll find out. Exxon's history with the Valdez spill makes these BP defenders look imperiously ignorant. Kudos to Obama for wanting to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past, wish that could catch on more in DC.

 

[jackschmittusa]

rudder

Read much? Like the link? Or the original post?

More than one mentioned in both!

 

[ayabe]

Hey OP...

I am not reading all the replies... can you answer this... How does one equal some?

He was forced to apologize or lost his committee standing... by the Republicans.

It's the default R position he's defending and he's far from alone.

 

[Siddhartha]

No, you get a clue before prosting.



Yeah might want to engage in a little of that first before jumping to conclusions..just saying.


GOP should be illustrating to the public that they care more about the residents of the Gulf's affected areas than scoring cheap political points against Obama, or sucking up to the big oil teat. This is going to bite them in the ass, hard, and they have no one to blame but themselves. Will level-headed repubs reign in their idiot brethren in time, guess we'll find out. Exxon's history with the Valdez spill makes these BP defenders look imperiously ignorant. Kudos to Obama for wanting to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past, wish that could catch on more in DC.

The GOP's underlying theme is it is not the business of government to care about people. People should take care of themselves. The GOP is more concerned about taking care of business and national defense.

I have noticed that a lot of people find this attractive until they need help. Are Gulf coast red state citizens demanding that the Federal Government do something about the oil spill?

 

[rudder]

It's the default R position he's defending and he's far from alone.

http://congress.blogs.foxnews.com/2...f-losing-his-position-over-shakedown-comment/

Don't think it is the default position otherwise they would not have smacked him down so hard.

 

[rudder]

The GOP's underlying theme is it is not the business of government to care about people. People should take care of themselves. The GOP is more concerned about taking care of business and national defense.

I have noticed that a lot of people find this attractive until they need help. Are Gulf coast red state citizens demanding that the Federal Government do something about the oil spill?

Would you leftwing nuts stop using the small government argument about this oil spill. It sure gets old... pay attention: The feds gave the permit to BP, It is an multiple state disaster, the Unites States Code tasks the president with being responsible for the response. This is not the same thing as wanting the government to wipe your ass in the morning.

Look, you need to make the United States conducive to operating a business that will grow. You cannot have Obama's socialist utopia without a stong capitalistic foundation to support it all. Jobs cannot be created with stimulus money... they will not last and will cost way more in the long run. The ONLY way SUSTAINABLE jobs are created is when businesses NEED new employees. Having the government pay for companies to hire people only boosts numbers short term.

Strong economy equals better tax revenues to run the fiscally conservative government which we do not have.