Some People Are Dumb As Hell About Their Health *UPDATE*

[zinfamous]

i agree with that. i actually talked at length about that in one of the hfcs threads i posted in.

you're absolutely right. something's gotta change.

this thread has AGREEMENTATION!

:awe:

 

[DAGTA]

Yes, really, that was your motivation. To attempt to deny it is hilarious.

So if a heart surgeon posts about a patient that doesn't take care of his/her health, that surgeon is promoting heart surgery?

Your logic is fail.

 

[DAGTA]

I don't think you understand the problem, at all.

I'm sure that half, if not most of the overweight, HBB, diabetics, whatever in this country are not intentionally destroying their health when they eat McD's religiously. For many, it is the cheapest, quickest option when working night shift and trying to feed a family. It isn't always the case, but for several families there really is no other logical choice for them.

Fast Food infiltration and exploitation of the inner city is quite lucrative, and seems to have become an "accepted" business model for some in the industry.

just ask amdhunter; he knows all about ghetto life

oh right, let's not accept personal responsibility. That wouldn't be very American.

 

[eits]

oh right, let's not accept personal responsibility. That wouldn't be very American.

there are lots of factors, but convenience and lack of affordable healthy options definitely plays a roll... especially when the cheap, crappy food is inherently (in my opinion) made to fill you up past the serving size amount. but that's part of a whole different thread I won't get into here.

we need to make better choices and we need for those better choices to be made easier for us to make.

 

[zinfamous]

oh right, let's not accept personal responsibility. That wouldn't be very American.

Personal responsibility is absolutely part of the equation when there is a choice to make.

The point that you seem to not care about is that in many situations, there is no other real choice to make. Feed your family and live paycheck-to-paycheck as best you can. The industry has understood this for some time, and done VERy well by themselves exploiting this. It's quite obvious when you pay attention to marketing trends over the decades and look at the demographics.

This is a widely-covered economic study. People don't really debate whether or not this happens, actually.

 

[rockyct]

They don't do anything. It's a scam and like all scams it is perpetuated by word of mouth - that's what this thread is, it was supposed to introduce people to the idea of chiropracty as legitimate science or medicine. See, it worked on you, you want to go now. :awe:

The OP didn't make me want to see a chiropractor, the people who flaming him did, like you. I had no intention of going to one until you guys started completely trashing the practice. Now, I want to find out for myself what they do and yes, I am being serious here.

 

[Zebo]

Some people want to die. Let them. Saves us on SS and medicare.

 

[Aluvus]

While I understand the OP's frustration, I also find it tremendously unprofessional to post such detailed information in this way. Even if you think (and I doubt, actually) that you have not violated HIPAA. If you were my health care provider, this thread would be more than enough reason for me to never see you again.

I will freely acknowledge that I have little respect for chiropractors, especially those as vehement as the OP. But if you want to claim to be a medical professional, then act like one.

Just FYI.

 

[AreaCode707]

While I understand the OP's frustration, I also find it tremendously unprofessional to post such detailed information in this way. Even if you think (and I doubt, actually) that you have not violated HIPAA. If you were my health care provider, this thread would be more than enough reason for me to never see you again.

This I can agree with. Anyone else remember the thread where some kid posted the "funny kid names" on his RN mom's patient list, and AT tracked down the parents of the kids, and the hospital, to notify them?

 

[TheVrolok]

While I understand the OP's frustration, I also find it tremendously unprofessional to post such detailed information in this way. Even if you think (and I doubt, actually) that you have not violated HIPAA. If you were my health care provider, this thread would be more than enough reason for me to never see you again.

I will freely acknowledge that I have little respect for chiropractors, especially those as vehement as the OP. But if you want to claim to be a medical professional, then act like one.

Just FYI.

He didn't violate HIPAA, it's fairly common to discuss patient cases.

 

[eits]

While I understand the OP's frustration, I also find it tremendously unprofessional to post such detailed information in this way. Even if you think (and I doubt, actually) that you have not violated HIPAA. If you were my health care provider, this thread would be more than enough reason for me to never see you again.

I will freely acknowledge that I have little respect for chiropractors, especially those as vehement as the OP. But if you want to claim to be a medical professional, then act like one.

Just FYI.

i didn't violate any hipaa rules. you don't know anything about this patient except her history. you don't know who it is or how to contact them.

go look up other threads made by e.r. docs in atot... they've made threads about patients who've come in.

 

[eits]

This I can agree with. Anyone else remember the thread where some kid posted the "funny kid names" on his RN mom's patient list, and AT tracked down the parents of the kids, and the hospital, to notify them?

it's impossible to do that in this case.

 

[AreaCode707]

it's impossible to do that in this case.

Right, which is why I didn't make a big fuss about it to begin with. If I were a patient I still don't think I'd want this much info about me on the net, even though it's not traceable.

 

[Aluvus]

i didn't violate any hipaa rules. you don't know anything about this patient except her history. you don't know who it is or how to contact them.

I know her gender, the exact clinic she went to (and it's not a widely-known one, so I can assume she is local), the exact day she came in, her exact age, and that she smokes. How many people on Earth do you think fit these criteria? I know a lot about her.

It is often surprisingly easy to uniquely identify people.

go look up other threads made by e.r. docs in atot... they've made threads about patients who've come in.

If they are posting the level of detail that you are, then they're douchebags too.

"But everybody else does it" is a rationalization, not a justification.

And learn to use the shift key, honestly. It's like reading something a child wrote.

 

[Gibsons]

Another eits bashing thread?

Here's plenty of fodder. Start here
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=1713381&page=17

Then to page 18 for the totally epic explanation of calcium's role in causing mutations, and the extra bonus of a defense of homeopathy because it's "vitalistic."

 

[Amused]

i agree with that. i actually talked at length about that in one of the hfcs threads i posted in.

you're absolutely right. something's gotta change.

You accomplished nothing but getting your ass owned in the HFCS threads.

eits ignorantly posts studies on fructose alone and equates them with HFCS:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=323592&highlight=hfcs

eits changes his tune and now just says it's bad, in the face of multiple studies proving no health difference between HFCS and sugar.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=325246&highlight=hfcs

 

[mattpegher]

Ok guys the venom is excessive. We all know eits is a chiropractor and that health issues, esp healthy lifestyle, are a concern of his. Like every one of us we enter this forum with some bias, and position. Ultimately eits does have a desire to foster a greater respect for his profession. However, his post did not intentionally preach the wonders of chiropractic medicine. So give the guy some credit for recognizing his own limitations and spending the time to help promote preventative care to his patients.

That said eits and Iliopsoas, the argument about radiographic techniques is moot. The more important argument is what value is there in diagnostic testing (or modifying diagnostic testing) in order to attempt to find incidental evidence of unrelated disease. Your history and or physical exam should have suggested a positive predictive value sufficent to warrant referral even to gynocology if not just the pmd. Any attempt to add to this weight of evidence with incidental findings or lack their of is not significant.

Eits did not violate Hipaa, as not mentioning the patients name is all that is required for the publication of case studies. It is further recommended that the exact age is not mentioned as the decade of life is sufficent for diagnositic and epidemiologic referrence. As for being a patient mentioned in a case study, I believe that this has been tested in a court of law, and found that the value of case discussion towards medical knowledge is great. It is hard to prove that any real and tangible harm would come to the patient when it is unlikely that a reader, even one familiar with the patient would be able to recognize the individual in question.

As I have said in the past in discussion with eits, chiropractic medicine is currently in its infancy with regard to evidence-based medicine, however this will change over the near future, especially as the Osteopathic and Allopathic (DO and MD) manipulative medicine fields begin to do more research. Listen, I reduce shoulders, nurse-maids elbows, and other manipulative proceedures in the ER. There is no reason to believe that there may not be some benefit to other musculoskeletal manipulative therapies. Some recent studies have shown an improvement in recovery rates and times. Sure there a number of practitioners that give the profession a bad name, heck we still have MD's in this country that give months of antibiotics IV for "chronic lyme disease" when the literature overwhelmingly states that it is no better than placebo.(Medical letter v49 june 2007, can be obtained throught CDC.gov)

 

[Zebo]

exactly. i don't understand how our priorities in america got so jacked up to where eating mcdonald's for lunch a few times a week is more important than actually taking care of problems that you are trying to sweep under the rug and minimize.

That don't hurt you if you run 5-6 miles a day. I'm 38 eat Mc Donalds, ribs, all sorts goodies and have a resting HR of 41 and BP 113/70. I'll never give up eating stuff I like. My Dad is 72 same way although he did break a tooth in half last week gritting his teeth bench pressing.😛

 

[mattpegher]

That don't hurt you if you run 5-6 miles a day. I'm 38 eat Mc Donalds, ribs, all sorts goodies and have a resting HR of 41 and BP 113/70. I'll never give up eating stuff I like. My Dad is 72 same way although he did break a tooth in half last week gritting his teeth bench pressing.😛

You do have a good point, a vigourous exercise program will usually counteract a significant amount of "unhealthy food". At least with regard to cardiovascular health. Granted there may be some negative effect of the food anyway, but the process of atherosclerotic disease is very multifactoral. Exercise, diet, smoking and genetic factors all play a role.

 

[Zebo]

You do have a good point, a vigourous exercise program will usually counteract a significant amount of "unhealthy food". At least with regard to cardiovascular health. Granted there may be some negative effect of the food anyway, but the process of atherosclerotic disease is very multifactoral. Exercise, diet, smoking and genetic factors all play a role.

I don't know what that means but let me tell you I was 320lb fat body till I saw my dad could still kick my ass at 62 I damn near collapsed riding four wheelers when I used to race them as a kid it was ridicules how I let myself go..... Never changed diet just started running (well walking at first😛, then walk jog staggered, then run) and shed like crazy halved my HR and so on.

Another thing I had back problems, sleeping problems, digestion problems too until I started running. this was 10 years ago and it changed my life. Big men (6'4" ~240 now) do not live long usually and I bet I was a heart attack waiting to happen.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Another eits bashing thread?

Here's plenty of fodder. Start here
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=1713381&page=17

Then to page 18 for the totally epic explanation of calcium's role in causing mutations, and the extra bonus of a defense of homeopathy because it's "vitalistic."

I hope people don't think I'm just anti-eits just because of his HFCS argument. He's shown, multiple times to have very questionable thinking on a variety of health related topics. It seems to me he still believes the same things, but knows if he keeps posting the same stuff he did before he'll get people showing him to be incredibly stupid, so he "improves" his argument. Just look at how his HFCS argument went from the prevalence of HFCS alone could be to blame for the rising health issues, to its worse than sucrose, to fructose is bad for you so HFCS is worse than sucrose (where it was then pointed out to him that most HFCS has less fructose than sucrose does), to fructose is horrible for you and will destroy your health (while still ignoring that its excessive consumption, on a level that the studies he cites admit is beyond what even people who eat unhealthily consume, that would cause the health issues he keeps bringing up).

You accomplished nothing but getting your ass owned in the HFCS threads.

eits ignorantly posts studies on fructose alone and equates them with HFCS:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=323592&highlight=hfcs

eits changes his tune and now just says it's bad, in the face of multiple studies proving no health difference between HFCS and sugar.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=325246&highlight=hfcs

Oh, did you miss the latest? He actually said HFCS is completely safe.

And lastly, again, for the people who think the criticism of eits is unjust, he's the one that started it all, and like I said before, if he doesn't want the criticism, maybe he shouldn't put it in his sig and make some of the threads/posts that he has.

In fact, there's quite a bit of similarities between him and fleabag, with the key difference being that eits is more educated. They both post absurd things that are borderline dangerous to people, get very defensive about it very quickly (the animosity towards him has come from his willingness to use it after being called when he's wrong), claim that just because people say they're wrong and provide links to prove it, that doesn't mean he's wrong, it just means that other people say he's wrong, but they're really the ones that are wrong.

In short, there's a history here that most people in this thread are not getting, and that is the reason for people's reactions to him.

 

[eits]

I know her gender, the exact clinic she went to (and it's not a widely-known one, so I can assume she is local), the exact day she came in, her exact age, and that she smokes. How many people on Earth do you think fit these criteria? I know a lot about her.

It is often surprisingly easy to uniquely identify people.



If they are posting the level of detail that you are, then they're douchebags too.

"But everybody else does it" is a rationalization, not a justification.

And learn to use the shift key, honestly. It's like reading something a child wrote.

lol you're ridiculous.

 

[Zebo]

They both post absurd things that are borderline dangerous to people, get very defensive about it very quickly

AFAIC they are all quacks. My MIL's got a counter full, I'm talking 50 pill bottles at least of meds. They give her X for arthritis, then Y for "depression" they Z for "carpel tunnel" Then 1 for side effects of Y and on and on and on. If that fat bitch would get on the track all her issues would disapear and they know it but keep her drugged. I know literally dozens of people like this... walking pharmacies always dieting always whining always some appointment.

 

[eits]

Another eits bashing thread?

Here's plenty of fodder. Start here
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=1713381&page=17

Then to page 18 for the totally epic explanation of calcium's role in causing mutations, and the extra bonus of a defense of homeopathy because it's "vitalistic."

that was 2005, dumbass. i hadn't even had a chance to explore my own paradigm yet. as for calcium ion's role in genetic mutation, that's something that happens. it's not a direct effect or anything, but it plays a role.

i was naive about homeopathy back then and knew very little about it. you can't tell me you've never had a change in your opinion as you've learned more about it. it's called youth... sometimes, you talk out of your ass about things you don't know much about (like many of you still do when it comes to modern chiropractic care).

as for you assbags who want to criticize me for my stance on hfcs, go ahead. i still say that hfcs is worse for you in high doses over long periods of time than sucrose. yes, high amounts of sucrose is bad, too... i never said one was good while the other was bad. but overall, one is worse for you than the other and one has slightly different affects on the body than the other (hfcs, considering how there's a higher amount of fructose, which is what causes the negative affects). those aren't separate arguments, darkswordsman (god, what a gay name), those are facts that all are interrelated.

by the way, hfcs doesn't have less fructose than sucrose... in regards to the conversation in the thread you're referencing, we were talking about soda... hfcs 55, to be precise. hfcs 55 has more fructose than does sucrose, by 5%. yeah, it may seem negligible in small numbers, but over time in larger quantities, it makes a difference.

i didn't get owned or anything... in fact, drpizza, i believe, was one of the people who tried owning me with the hfcs debate, recently, and i proved him wrong. i didn't go around trolling him or anything like the immature fucks you people are... i simply left it at that.

oh, and amused, i posted studies on fructose because hfcs has more fructose than sucrose. just because it's in hfcs doesn't mean that there isn't more fructose. i don't understand how you can't understand that. it's almost as if you keep trying to force that tired argument in the hopes that it might negate the fact that hfcs 55 has more fructose, and since there's extra fructose, a study of how fructose is bad for you is valid as a coutner-argument to your "science is always right and never wrong, no one's trying to make a buck off propagnda" mentality.

yeah, i said hfcs is completely safe... it's not poison or anything. i can drink a soda and not die from it. i don't understand what your hang-up about it is. just because i've been saying that taking it high doses over long periods of times causes physiological changes and changes in health doesn't make it unsafe or a poison.

i've never said anything or given advice to people that would be considered dangerous. furthermore, who are you to deem whether my advice would have been dangerous or not? you have no idea what you're talking about and you think that just because you disagree with my educated views because, sometimes, they do not align with your anecdotal views, that i must be "dangerous" or misinformed. well, i'm not... and if i were ever to discover that i was absolutely wrong about something, i have no problems with acknowledging my wrongness. i've done it in a couple threads in the past for different topics other than health-related issues.

 

[eits]

AFAIC they are all quacks. My MIL's got a counter full, I'm talking 50 pill bottles at least of meds. They give her X for arthritis, then Y for "depression" they Z for "carpel tunnel" Then 1 for side effects of Y and on and on and on. If that fat bitch would get on the track all her issues would disapear and they know it but keep her drugged. I know literally dozens of people like this... walking pharmacies always dieting always whining always some appointment.

um, i don't prescribe medicine... so, i don't exactly follow what you're saying. are you calling chiropractors quacks because they prescribe people pills to mask symptoms of problems and then other pills to mask the side effects of the pills they're taking to maskt the symptoms of the original problem? if so, that's not what chiropractors do...