some Oakland residents will receive 'Basic Income'- lump sum money w/o working for it

[zinfamous]

Yay for Oakland....more crack and 40's.

well, let's wait until the data is back.

 

[zinfamous]

COMFORT IS THE ENEMY OF SUCCESS AND ACHIEVEMENT!

If someone is giving you money for doing nothing, the chance that you'll aspire to be something greatly diminishes. Unless you naturally crave success, you'll take the easy road. Why? Because your needs are being met. It's very common for people to get the essentials covered and just give up. They never strive for anything greater. They don't have too!

IMO, it's better to have something that motivates you to do better. Relying on company generosity and government subsidies is not the answer! What's going to happen when the money dries up and there is no more to give out? What happens when the government says "opps. we're $50 Trillion is debt. We need to slash public assistance." I'd rather be self dependent than depend on anyone.

Mark my words. One day in the near future when our economy tanks hard, the people who are getting public assistance are going to be screwed.

well, we already have this model and it doesn't seem to work very well. We also do not, as an advanced society, let people shit and die of starvation in the streets. Do you want to turn this country into Calcotta? I don't.

I like trying new things and gathering data.

I do think that if kids coming out of high school with an expectation of at least some spending money will be a disincentive to selling crack for that meager salary.

a lot of ignorant conservative types with open disdain for the poor (see: compuwiz) interpret this behavior as a cultural want. I don't think it's something that will work well for the older dudes in that world, but get kids earlier with a better option than crime is a big deal. A lot of these people don't want to be selling drugs and petty theft, but for various reasons see few options.

But it has to start younger.

 

[zinfamous]

Basic income, first pass is to set it at $12,000 a year.

The state with the highest total value of welfare benefits was Hawaii, at $49,175. The lowest was Mississippi, at $16,984.

Sounds like all those people sitting around in Oakland will be getting a paycut, and pure benefit from employment instead of the harm it does to their benefits today.

:thumbsup:

never let details cloud a nice ignorant rant.

 

[Vic]

They're a private company. Unless they're breaking the law somehow, they only have to answer to their investors for how they spend their money.

 

[flexy]

yup.
why go off the deep end flexy?

You linked to a pilot about basic income. Such, by the way, is now also considered in Finland and Switzerland.

YET, you found it as necessary to add w/ your last sentence that "the government must educate those people to be productive citizens.." and also imply that the folks who'd receive basic income (WHICH BY THE WAY WOULD BE EVERYONE, EVEN THE RICH) "doesn't do anything else but watch Netflix all day".

So, rather than reporting that a pilot about basic income is planned for Oakland, you needed to add some (rather idiotic, if not insulting) opinion.

By the way, if you inform yourself about basic income and why it would be good....you'd also realize that with basic income welfare abuse and leeching off the system becomes obsolete. If EVERYONE has the right to such a lump sum, there is no-one who can (technically) be leeching off the system any more.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You linked to a pilot about basic income. Such, by the way, is now also considered in Finland and Switzerland.

YET, you found it as necessary to add w/ your last sentence that "the government must educate those people to be productive citizens.." and also imply that the folks who'd receive basic income (WHICH BY THE WAY WOULD BE EVERYONE, EVEN THE RICH) "doesn't do anything else but watch Netflix all day".

.

From my understanding this is more of a minimum floor, if you earn less it trues you up, if you earn more you don't get it.
Not saying its the best idea ever however I'm game for someone trying it out.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Could you fit any more anti-black in this sentence?

Are you saying that a crack dealer is automatically black? Are you saying that only blacks drink 40s? Can't a white person buy a Cadillac? You made an awful lot of racial assumptions there, sounds like the problem is your own.

 

[alcoholbob]

If this works as a bonus income, then most likely the people who were already working will continue to work since its nice to make more money, and let's be plain 2k is peasant wages in the Bay Area, and the people who weren't working before will continue not to work. If it's just a floor then IMO it's a terrible idea. If you are going to make it a floor then only a percentage of your wages should count, for example if you make $1000 a month, 60% of it is deducted so you still get $1600 in benefits instead of $2000.

The question is how does this affect people working and currently getting federal and state benefits? Does this disqualify them for a bunch of nutritional and child programs? I would assume single mothers who can do math might reject this and single men would be most excited for this.

 

[WHAMPOM]

A social experiment that has been repeatedly torpedoed by conservative interests because of its' positive results. Better school attendance and graduation, less emergency room visits, less crime, wage increase due to employer competition for workers, etc.

 

[zinfamous]

They're a private company. Unless they're breaking the law somehow, they only have to answer to their investors for how they spend their money.

stop it! this insanity must end! private companies should not be allowed to do with their money what they wish, lest they learn something new about poverty and behavior and social worth and output that challenges my inherent prejudices!

are you telling me that my experience driving down this one street one day and observing some poor people that one afternoon is not a fully-formed theory of social mobility?

get that shit outta here!

 

[JEDI]

You linked to a pilot about basic income. Such, by the way, is now also considered in Finland and Switzerland.

YET, you found it as necessary to add w/ your last sentence that "the government must educate those people to be productive citizens.." and also imply that the folks who'd receive basic income (WHICH BY THE WAY WOULD BE EVERYONE, EVEN THE RICH) "doesn't do anything else but watch Netflix all day".

So, rather than reporting that a pilot about basic income is planned for Oakland, you needed to add some (rather idiotic, if not insulting) opinion.

By the way, if you inform yourself about basic income and why it would be good....you'd also realize that with basic income welfare abuse and leeching off the system becomes obsolete. If EVERYONE has the right to such a lump sum, there is no-one who can (technically) be leeching off the system any more.

um no.
try again alex

 

[zinfamous]

um no.
try again alex

you do realize that this model replaces all of welfare for the recipients, and is actually less "Free lazy-making cash" than they otherwise would receive, right?

so, tell me why:

--receiving less money with no restrictions to purchasing is going to make them just as lazy, if not lazier than the current welfare model?
--spending less tax-payer money on this social program is...bad?

 

[Greenman]

Seems like an interesting experiment to me. I don't think it will work out, but that's a guess, and I've been wrong before.

 

[Hacp]

People get a lump sum of money ($1k - $2k per month) on a regular basis to cover the cost of rent and food without needing to work for it.

Doesn't this already happen with Section 8 + food Stamps?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Your short-sightedness is...amazing...

There will ALWAYS be the unemployed. There will ALWAYS be people on welfare.

Abandoning the immense bureaucracy behind this (SS, health insurance, welfare, unemployment etc.) and INSTEAD give the people a basic income TO COVER BASIC ESSENTIALS is very smart. For starters, it gives people an incentive to work since there is no "fear" anymore to lose benefits by taking on work.

From someone with some experience in this area, that's a very real fear / de-motivator towards working. Someone on SSDI, you can't make more than so much a month, otherwise they take your check. I know someone working part-time, that lost a good chunk of their disability check, because they were working, and now they HAVE to work part-time, just to make expenses meet. But now that person is afraid of taking on full-time employment, because that would mean that he would lose his disability check altogether.

And he wouldn't be making any more money than he already does, and lose a lot of benefits (like insurance).

For many people currently on some sort of disability or welfare, the downsides of working, out-weigh the upsides. If we as a society WANT people to work, then we need to remove this dis-incentive to joining the work force.

 

[VirtualLarry]

COMFORT IS THE ENEMY OF SUCCESS AND ACHIEVEMENT!

If someone is giving you money for doing nothing, the chance that you'll aspire to be something greatly diminishes. Unless you naturally crave success, you'll take the easy road. Why? Because your needs are being met. It's very common for people to get the essentials covered and just give up. They never strive for anything greater. They don't have too!

IMO, it's better to have something that motivates you to do better. Relying on company generosity and government subsidies is not the answer! What's going to happen when the money dries up and there is no more to give out? What happens when the government says "opps. we're $50 Trillion is debt. We need to slash public assistance." I'd rather be self dependent than depend on anyone.

Mark my words. One day in the near future when our economy tanks hard, the people who are getting public assistance are going to be screwed.

This is... all true, too.

 

[VirtualLarry]

From my understanding this is more of a minimum floor, if you earn less it trues you up, if you earn more you don't get it.
Not saying its the best idea ever however I'm game for someone trying it out.

But... isn't that Communism in a nutshell? Why don't we look towards Cuba for examples of what happens with this. I've heard (read), that their society is stuck in the 60s / 70s for technology. Things like microwave ovens are a rare treat for the upper echelons of society. (I doubt that they even have iPhones???)

 

[brianmanahan]

and just when i think my amusement at y-combinator/hackernews can't get any higher

they go and outdo themselves

let's check some of the good stuff from that site:

I dont want to live or work in a society where employees at every company reflect the demographics of that society

Europe doesn't have the sort of ingrained racism that exists in the United States

markup languages are useless as a file format you send across the internet

Perl just works. I thoroughly enjoy coding in it. I've not spent too much time optimizing and testing code though.

I cannot, almost as a rule, trust anybody who has not tried a variety of mind altering substances.

 

[Victorian Gray]

What a nasty characterization of the un- & under employed. It oozes undeserved self righteousness.

Yep. The arguments over the 'worthy' poor vs the 'unworthy' poor have been going on for at least few hundred years now and don't look to be ending for a while yet.

 

[chucky2]

you do realize that this model replaces all of welfare for the recipients, and is actually less "Free lazy-making cash" than they otherwise would receive, right?

so, tell me why:

--receiving less money with no restrictions to purchasing is going to make them just as lazy, if not lazier than the current welfare model?
--spending less tax-payer money on this social program is...bad?

So tell us this:

When the mom blows her money and can't afford rent/her share of assisted living, and/or food, for either herself and/or especially her kids, the system will then be setup to let her and her kids pay for her bad decision(s), right?

Because I'm betting taxpayer dollars to SJW donuts that what's really going to happen in that scenario - which will play out again, and again, and again, and...well, you get the point - is the persistent sobbing whine (just like every other SJW persistent sobbing whine) will be, 'Oh look at that poor single mother and her 2/3/4/5 kids!, she's doing the best she can, she just needs a little more help! <insert direct or implied You're a racist/misogynist/xenophobe if you don't want to give her more money to (mis)manage!>

The problem most people have isn't that people are being helped. It's that the people are un-helpable because they're a.) in too F'd up of a persistent situation to ever be savable (read: we will constantly pay for them and their spawn) and/or b.) too F'ing stupid/selfish/accustomed/lazy to get off the Gov teat (read: we will constantly pay for them and their spawn). So the money keeps being spent, month after month, year after year, decade after decade, and lookee there!, there is never and real change! But wait! If only! If only, more money/subsidy was given to them! Yes! That must be The Solution!

(meanwhile, Pedro who can speak less English that 4th Gen subsidy recipient has two jobs ((but to be SJW sure, they're absolutely only 'jobs Americans won't do!)), his own truck, and his kid ((legal or illegal)) is getting B's in school and can already speak better English as a zero generation student than the 5th Gen future subsidy kids...I mean...just how does that happen and oh yeah!, we really need to give them mo munney!)

It never ends with the SJW crowd, never...

 

[MajinCry]

And some people attack the ambulance staff rescuing them. Ergo, no more ambulances and hospitals for nobody.

Some people kill police officers and prank call them. Ergo, no more police, that one guy ruined it for everybody.

Some people use sharp knives to self harm. Ergo, no more knives. We've all only got forks and spoons, people don't deserve knives.

Man, some of ya are messed up.

 

[Jhhnn]

Are you saying that a crack dealer is automatically black? Are you saying that only blacks drink 40s? Can't a white person buy a Cadillac? You made an awful lot of racial assumptions there, sounds like the problem is your own.

Are you saying that a triple crown of racial stereotyping isn't racial stereotyping?

The sum of your bullshit is clearly greater than the parts.

 

[JEDI]

So tell us this:

When the mom blows her money and can't afford rent/her share of assisted living, and/or food, for either herself and/or especially her kids, the system will then be setup to let her and her kids pay for her bad decision(s), right?

Because I'm betting taxpayer dollars to SJW donuts that what's really going to happen in that scenario - which will play out again, and again, and again, and...well, you get the point - is the persistent sobbing whine (just like every other SJW persistent sobbing whine) will be, 'Oh look at that poor single mother and her 2/3/4/5 kids!, she's doing the best she can, she just needs a little more help! <insert direct or implied You're a racist/misogynist/xenophobe if you don't want to give her more money to (mis)manage!>

The problem most people have isn't that people are being helped. It's that the people are un-helpable because they're a.) in too F'd up of a persistent situation to ever be savable (read: we will constantly pay for them and their spawn) and/or b.) too F'ing stupid/selfish/accustomed/lazy to get off the Gov teat (read: we will constantly pay for them and their spawn). So the money keeps being spent, month after month, year after year, decade after decade, and lookee there!, there is never and real change! But wait! If only! If only, more money/subsidy was given to them! Yes! That must be The Solution!

(meanwhile, Pedro who can speak less English that 4th Gen subsidy recipient has two jobs ((but to be SJW sure, they're absolutely only 'jobs Americans won't do!)), his own truck, and his kid ((legal or illegal)) is getting B's in school and can already speak better English as a zero generation student than the 5th Gen future subsidy kids...I mean...just how does that happen and oh yeah!, we really need to give them mo munney!)

It never ends with the SJW crowd, never...

sjw = social justice warrior

 

[JEDI]

Doesn't this already happen with Section 8 + food Stamps?

but w/this Basic Income experiment there's no penalty for getting a full time job.
you're not penalized for trying to be a productive member of society

 

[1prophet]

Trickle down doesn't work, whether it takes the form of basic income, tax cuts for the rich, continuously raising minimum wages, etc., since they are temporary feel good solutions whose sole purpose is kicking the can down the road with interest while the rich get richer, the poor increase, and the middle class that ends up shouldering most of the burden eventually collapses.

Until humanity looks at money as a means not an end and puts their fellow human being first when it comes in conflict with their short cuts to profit, we will continue downwards into economic despair and eventually revolutions and wars.