Some news on the 7900!

[Munky]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: A554SS1N

Originally posted by: fierydemise

Originally posted by: A554SS1N
Well, ATi is looking at 48 - so if they can do that, NVidia can manage 32 - I very much doubt you'd be thinking the safe approach is 32 pipes compared to 48 pipes would you?? If anything is being ambitious, it's ATi's approach which is more innovation than evolution. I think both companies will do just fine in there usual low-yield-high-end-chip way....

Its not 48 pipes, I don't exactly understand it but as far as I know its 16 pipes with each pipe capable of doing 3 shader operations. Someone please clarify/correct me.

Yeah, I know, not in the traditional sense, but there are other units as far as i know which make an effective 48 pipes (I think) - although I'm only going on wild website stories

It's 16 pipes but with 3 pixel shaders in each pipe, so it's 48 PS total. Just like the x1600 is 4 pipes with 12 PS. By going this route, they're not putting 48 full-fledged pipes, so it will have roughly the same transistor count as the 32 pipe gf7900, IMO.

Any thoughts on the low-k thing I mentioned above?

You do have a good point on the low-k thing, but I'm still not so optimistic about the rumors. 90nm seems to have caused problems for many silicon chip makers because without additional advances in the process methods like SOI, 90nm caused more problems than it solved. For Intel and it's preshot, it turned out miserably with the resulting heat disipation. AMD was also having problems with 90nm until they added SOI and got help from IBM. Ati was successful with the 90nm r520, but they kept the card at 16 pipes, and even now it runs pretty hot. I'm not sure how things will turn out with the r580, but I'm fairly certain it will run even hotter than the r520, and they dont seem to be reaching for 700mhz either. That's why I'm skeptical about the 32 pipe g71 at 700 mhz. I'm sure Nv could pull it off in a limited number of cherry picked cores, but I dont see it happening for a wide availability product.

 

[g3pro]

Regardless of anything else, the 7900 is going to do some serious damage.

 

[MBrown]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: MBrown
I can't believe we are talking about 7900's now. It seems like the 7800's and the x1800's just came out! What a race this is.

Well, you got that half right

Is that what you were talking about?

 

[TomKazansky]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
The 'pipe' numbering is getting bothersome.....

The x1900 is expected to have 48ALUs- the same number as the 7800GTX- while it has 16ROPs, compared to the GTXs 24. Now, the level of functionality between the ALUs is different so comparing them simply by using the raw number of them doesn't come close to working. The X360's GPU as 8 ROPs and 48 ALUs, so you can call it a 8 pipe part, that performs like a 24 ALU part although it has 48 ALUs.......

I don't like the current naming convention. We should establish a baseline for a simple string command and figure out how many ALUs will be tied up to execute it and then divide that number to come up with a useable number for the sake of the masses. Come up with something easy to digest for those who want a simple answer like was done with the pixel/texel numbers.

You are right. But then it's all about marketing - the point is to get more sales.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: MBrown

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: MBrown
I can't believe we are talking about 7900's now. It seems like the 7800's and the x1800's just came out! What a race this is.

Well, you got that half right

Is that what you were talking about?

I think he's talking about the part where you said "It seems like the 7800's and the x1800's just came out!". You're half right in that the X1800 series just came out but the 7800 series has been out since last June.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: MBrown

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: MBrown
I can't believe we are talking about 7900's now. It seems like the 7800's and the x1800's just came out! What a race this is.

Well, you got that half right

Is that what you were talking about?

I think he's talking about the part where you said "It seems like the 7800's and the x1800's just came out!". You're half right in that the X1800 series just came out but the 7800 series has been out since last June.

Thats it!

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: g3pro
Regardless of anything else, the 7900 is going to do some serious damage.

How would you know?


Oh yeah, you're that guy that supposibly said the G70 would beat the R520 by a big margain before they came out.

 

[zephyrprime]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
The 'pipe' numbering is getting bothersome.....

The x1900 is expected to have 48ALUs- the same number as the 7800GTX- while it has 16ROPs, compared to the GTXs 24. Now, the level of functionality between the ALUs is different so comparing them simply by using the raw number of them doesn't come close to working. The X360's GPU as 8 ROPs and 48 ALUs, so you can call it a 8 pipe part, that performs like a 24 ALU part although it has 48 ALUs.......

I don't like the current naming convention. We should establish a baseline for a simple string command and figure out how many ALUs will be tied up to execute it and then divide that number to come up with a useable number for the sake of the masses. Come up with something easy to digest for those who want a simple answer like was done with the pixel/texel numbers.

Doesn't the 7800gtx also have 16 rops?
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Previews/G70preview/3.html

 

[solofly]

If it wasn't for Vista and DX10 being around the corner I would scoop these babies up.

 

[pibrahim]

Originally posted by: the Chase
Seems stuff is starting to leak out all over the place on these cards. Thread over on XS has a photo of an Asus 1900 with the retail box it came out of in the same photo. These must be or about to be shipping to retailors!

Hmmm - XS? Not seen those forums before. Any chance of a link?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Wentelteefje
Although those figures really seem/are impressing, ATI is trying something else... Instead of focusing on a great number of pixel pipelines, their X1900 will have 16 TMU's, but will be able to process 3 pixel shaders per pipeline, equaling 48 pixel shader processors...

nVidia decides to do otherwise, but it must be said that the previous X1800 managed to beat the 7800 as well, despite having 8 true pixel pipelines less... BTW ATI has something very nice with their programmable memory controller (seeing that one driver update could improve frame rates with 30% in OpenGL)...

Their trying both to take another path (nVidia relying on textures, while ATI sees the future in more pixel processing), but IMO both know very well what they're doing... The PC market has grown too big for one of them to release a bad product...

Pixel processors sounds like ALUs to me. The 7800 has 2 of them per pipeline for 48 total.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: munky
Does anyone honestly think Nv can make a 32 pipe gpu clocked at 700+ mhz? What would be the transistor count and what kind of yields can they expect from it. If I had to chose between higher clocks and more pipes, I'd pick the more pipes approach because it's a "safer" bet when designing a gpu, but clocking all those pipes at 700 mhz is a very ambitious expectation. I'd put the wide availability model clocks somewhere between 550-600 mhz, and then NV can release a limited edition ultra using cherry picked cores at 700 mhz. I dont think 700mhz off the bat is a realistic expectation, but it would be impressive if they pulled it off (and the cards were available in retail for more than 2 weeks )

Transistor count could be no different than the current 7800 if the current 7800 is a 32 pipe card with 2 quads disabled to improve yields.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Transistor count could be no different than the current 7800 if the current 7800 is a 32 pipe card with 1 quad disabled to improve yields.

Wouldn't it have to have 2 quads disabled to be a 32-pipe card turned into a 24-pipe card? I very much doubt that Nvidia went from a 16-pipe card to a 32-pipe card last June and than just disabled 2 quads to get better yields. 32 pipes on a 110nm process would be a feat.

Originally posted by: pibrahim


Hmmm - XS? Not seen those forums before. Any chance of a link?

Server must be down right now but the url is www.xtremesystems.org. A lot of very good info there as well as some of the craziest hardware you've ever heard of.

 

[the Chase]

Originally posted by: pibrahim

Originally posted by: the Chase
Seems stuff is starting to leak out all over the place on these cards. Thread over on XS has a photo of an Asus 1900 with the retail box it came out of in the same photo. These must be or about to be shipping to retailors!

Hmmm - XS? Not seen those forums before. Any chance of a link?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=84940

Here's the link- I think the Asus shots are on page 4 of the thread.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Wentelteefje
Although those figures really seem/are impressing, ATI is trying something else... Instead of focusing on a great number of pixel pipelines, their X1900 will have 16 TMU's, but will be able to process 3 pixel shaders per pipeline, equaling 48 pixel shader processors...

nVidia decides to do otherwise, but it must be said that the previous X1800 managed to beat the 7800 as well, despite having 8 true pixel pipelines less... BTW ATI has something very nice with their programmable memory controller (seeing that one driver update could improve frame rates with 30% in OpenGL)...

Their trying both to take another path (nVidia relying on textures, while ATI sees the future in more pixel processing), but IMO both know very well what they're doing... The PC market has grown too big for one of them to release a bad product...

Pixel processors sounds like ALUs to me. The 7800 has 2 of them per pipeline for 48 total.

Pixel processor refers to the pixel shader unit, which has several ALU's. The 7800 has 2 full ALU's in each, and Ati is using one full ALU and one mini ALU. Moreover, in Nv's hardware one of the ALU's is responsible for texture addressing, so you cant fully put both of them to do math calculations when textures are being used (this info is at b3d if anyone is interested). But at any rate, the g70 has 24 pixel shaders, the r580 will have 48, and the g71 is rumored to have 32.

 

[pibrahim]

Originally posted by: the Chase

Originally posted by: pibrahim

Originally posted by: the Chase
Seems stuff is starting to leak out all over the place on these cards. Thread over on XS has a photo of an Asus 1900 with the retail box it came out of in the same photo. These must be or about to be shipping to retailors!

Hmmm - XS? Not seen those forums before. Any chance of a link?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=84940

Here's the link- I think the Asus shots are on page 4 of the thread.

Ta very much!

 

[g3pro]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: g3pro
Regardless of anything else, the 7900 is going to do some serious damage.

How would you know?


Oh yeah, you're that guy that supposibly said the G70 would beat the R520 by a big margain before they came out.

Oh, you're the guy who doesn't understand that my comment was made to mock those who say similar, unsubstantiated "facts" in this forum. *cough* ackmed *cough*

 

[NoStateofMind]

Looks nice , well almost identical to the X1800's.

 

[evolucion8]

Since nVidia uses a Shallow pipelines, the more the rendering pixel pipelines, the lower the speed core, looks the AMD model, they barely reached the 2.8GHz and is doing more work per clock than a 3.8GHz Pentium 4. I really doubt that they would reach that 700MHz speed, ATi uses a deeper pixel pipelines and with it's 90nm process with 16 pixel pipelines, it runs at 625MHz stock (X1800XT) and would overclock at 700MHz with little or no heat issues at all. After all is not about high speed clock, is about efficiency, the only things that matters in clockspeed is the Pixel Fillrate, and not anymore since we're going into a more shader era.

 

[Munky]

Everything depends on clockspeed. All those shaders are also dependent on clock speed - a 16 pipe x850xt clocked at ~200mhz would only be as fast as a 8 pipe 9800xt clocked at 412mhz.

However, having 32 full fledged pipes is a safer bet in most curent games than 16 pipes with 48 shaders, since you're guaranteed to have good performance all around. But, just like the r300 with its 8x1 architecture was a more future-looking design than the 4x2 arrangement of nv30 (the x2 is for texture units, not shaders), so the r580 is also a more future-looking design, which seems better suited at shader-heavy games.