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Some guy posts his hospital bill online

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lxskllr said:
A MRI is a MRI. Where's the extra cost going, and what "specialized" training was implemented? Legal issues are relevant, but *that's* what Obamacare should have addressed. Not mandating the same shit we already have. Of course that would mean alienating a big employer of politicians...
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While it SHOULD have that is not the argument they are useing comparing a procedure to a animal.

You fuck up and kill animal they are out the cost of the animal. you fuck up and kill a human you have major issues.

its like saying the guy that changes the oil in pit pro's is as good a mechanic as a guy who is qualified to work on a lambo.

Does health care cost need to be adjusted to reality? sure. but don't compare a the training and such of a vet to a doc..
 
waggy said:
While it SHOULD have that is not the argument they are useing comparing a procedure to a animal.

You fuck up and kill animal they are out the cost of the animal. you fuck up and kill a human you have major issues.

its like saying the guy that changes the oil in pit pro's is as good a mechanic as a guy who is qualified to work on a lambo.

Does health care cost need to be adjusted to reality? sure. but don't compare a the training and such of a vet to a doc..
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Horses can be worth hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars, but that's beside the point. It doesn't take special training to run an MRI machine. Because someone, somewhere is doing neural surgery, it doesn't raise the value of the guy pushing a couple buttons.
 
lxskllr said:
Horses can be worth hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars, but that's beside the point. It doesn't take special training to run an MRI machine. Because someone, somewhere is doing neural surgery, it doesn't raise the value of the guy pushing a couple buttons.
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And i bet those with horses that cost hundreds of thousands aren't going to your run the mill vet. they are going to top horse vets.

but hwen you talk common vet and common doctor. there are more then just medical raising prices to be a ass. there is more training, more laws etc.

its comparing apples and oranges.
 
Im guessing that Aetnas PPO network doesnt cover Sutter Sac which is why his payment is so high. The 50K is just some random BS number the hospital throws out, Aetnas out of network rate is 16k, 6k of which it pays, 10k goes to the pt, and the rest the hospital writes off.

The Anesthesia charge is weird, I know the sutter anesthesia group is NOT employed by the hospital and is contracted out. Im guessing that charge is for disposable supplies, medication, and depreciation for the anesthesia machine. The normal physician reimbursement for a 1 hour appy is about $400.
 
This was a bill that my insurance provider received from a hospital:

aetna-bill.jpg
 
I have a 2k out of pocket maximum. Not too worried.

The real concern isn't free market healthcare vs. socialized medicine. It's the costs.

If you let them get away with it, the hospital can charge whatever they want.
 
foghorn67 said:
I have a 2k out of pocket maximum. Not too worried.

The real concern isn't free market healthcare vs. socialized medicine. It's the costs.

If you let them get away with it, the hospital can charge whatever they want.
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A big driver of costs is everyone can get care but very few are able to pay. The hospitals and care providers simply keep rolling up the unpaid costs and passing it on to those that can/do pay. As the number of people with coverage drops (along with their wages), the dollar amount paid by those that do pay increases.

I find it interesting that there is a certain group that wants to 'broaden the base' when it comes to taxes - stating that it would lower tax rates for everyone yet when we try to 'broaden the base' as far as who pays for healthcare, it only causes more money to be spent and prices to go up and neither prices or rates to go down?
 
marvdmartian said:
Without getting into politics? Quite simply, because the authors of the bill didn't "fix" the medical care issues of this country, they just (forgive the pun) "slapped a bandage" on them. They made it possible for people who couldn't normally get medical insurance to get it (a good thing), while increasing everyone's costs, above a specific income level (a bad thing).

Instead of this "fix", which only cured the symptoms of our problems, they should have gone after the disease, so to speak.
1. insane lawsuits expecting doctors who make simple mistakes to pay costly amounts of money.....oftentimes, much more than the person could ever possible earn in their lifetime, OR the cost of their care if they've become incapacitated and can no longer work. Really nothing more than lawyers filling their pockets with legal fees.
2. doctors having to carry atrocious amounts of insurance, to guard against #1 (increases everyone's costs).
3. Medicare and Medicaid plans that don't work, cost taxpayers untold billions of dollars per year, and cause doctors/clinics to pretty much have to hire someone full time, just to handle the immense amounts of paperwork related to these programs, with no guarantee that they'll get the money from the government.
4. Doctors offices and hospitals that have to charge super-inflated amounts for the simplest of procedures, just in order to get back a fraction of that amount from the insurance companies, in the vague hope of breaking even or making a profit from their business.
5. Insurance carriers that charge exorbitantly high rates (just ask anyone whose insurance recently cancelled, and who is now experiencing Obamacare "sticker shock"), then turn around and act like miserly skinflints when it comes to paying out for the care we have insured ourselves for.

It's all become a vicious circle, and the only people who are making good money off of medical care is the lawyers and the insurance companies. Now here's where it gets good, and why they were in such a hurry to pass this Obamacare bill, without even reading it:
1. many of our country's politicians were lawyers before getting into office, so they're NOT going to cut the throats of personal injury attorneys, who they might someday be working for/with again.
2. most of the politicians are getting kickbacks (sorry...POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS!!) from insurance companies. Now the insurance companies are getting more customers, which is increasing their profit, and, no doubt, the politicians are getting more kickbacks.

Any questions??
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Okay, but now people can afford health care. And fixing that is easier than fixing the long list of problems you named.
 
Engineer said:
A big driver of costs is everyone can get care but very few are able to pay. The hospitals and care providers simply keep rolling up the unpaid costs and passing it on to those that can/do pay. As the number of people with coverage drops (along with their wages), the dollar amount paid by those that do pay increases.

I find it interesting that there is a certain group that wants to 'broaden the base' when it comes to taxes - stating that it would lower tax rates for everyone yet when we try to 'broaden the base' as far as who pays for healthcare, it only causes more money to be spent and prices to go up and neither prices or rates to go down?
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It's like the "Hole in the Bucket" song. Maybe someday, somebody will figure it out. Hopefully, in our lifetime.
 
Engineer said:
A big driver of costs is everyone can get care but very few are able to pay. The hospitals and care providers simply keep rolling up the unpaid costs and passing it on to those that can/do pay. As the number of people with coverage drops (along with their wages), the dollar amount paid by those that do pay increases.

I find it interesting that there is a certain group that wants to 'broaden the base' when it comes to taxes - stating that it would lower tax rates for everyone yet when we try to 'broaden the base' as far as who pays for healthcare, it only causes more money to be spent and prices to go up and neither prices or rates to go down?
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"Those who can't pay" ohh you mean bankruptcy.
 
Scholzpdx said:
Military Tri-care reserve here. My appendectomy at a super expensive hospital here was 17k before insurance, $780 after insurance.
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Tricare Reserve is, honestly, pretty damn awesome. I've looked at stats from previous employer-sponsored plans, and was like... uh, so, pay three times what I pay now, all for a shittier coverage plan? Uh... no.

When it comes to trivial things, it can suck - when it comes to what is important, and the things that usually are surprising and cost unimaginable amounts? They cover those quite well.

The biggest thing is, sometimes in a given region, providers who accept it are limited or terrible. Usually they are out there. I do hear dealing with Tricare from the hospital's perspective is a nightmare. I wouldn't doubt it - put government on anything, it becomes a nightmare of outdated forms and feedback loops and sometimes terrible, terrible people employed on the opposite end.
It has worked out well for me thus far, so I'm satisfied and sticking around as long as I'm eligible and I don't find anything better. Better vision coverage is usually pretty damn easy to find, though. 😛
 
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Bateluer said:
Well, so far the average increase for ObamaCare rates is ~500%. So, multiple those numbers by 5. Then consider that you'd be waiting in line for days, possibly weeks, to get the appendix removed. Then you'd be operated on by trainees and students because of the worsening doctor shortage. Worst case, you might end up brain dead for what should have been a relatively simple surgery.

One should also take note that those rates are massively inflated to adjust for other 'things', such as illegal immigrants getting treatment, the uninsured, the under-insured, end of life care for people who can't afford it, and simply people who caused their own health problems through their own poor health choices. Course, none of those things actually gets addressed by ObamaCare, and most are made worse.

So . . .yeah . . . not really looking forward to returning the shitty health care I had while active duty. 🙁
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You're a fear mongering conservitard. An appendectomy is an emergency surgery and you'd never have to wait under any condition to get it done.

And if the health care you received on active duty was bad, well, you live in a shitty little bubble. I'd kill to go back on active duty to get the free and fast healthcare that my family and I had. Even being double covered with reserve select and my employers insurance, I still have a decent out-of-pocket to pay if I want anything done.
 
wow. A thread right up my alley.
First, a few million things to address...

I remember a time not so long ago when creditors did not pay attention to bad marks on CR reports that had to do with medical bills.
That is no longer the case today.
This huge bill posted above will most likely go into collections at some point, very soon, and pretty much destroy the credit rating. Two creatures that never forget, an elephant and hospital collection departments.
And it is true as someone posted above, when the doctor bills also start coming in, this bottom line bill figure will double if not triple.

Im not going to get into Obamacare or our healthcare for profit system which Obamacare really did not change much with reform, but the scenario above is obviously pretty grim, and way too common. Especially for folks under the age of 25, those that feel indestructible. Famous last words....

Im just going to ask a simple question here as food for thought...
Wouldn't you as American citizens rather pay, say, a 15% sales tax on goods and services and have all your healthcare costs covered by national insurance, where getting sick or needing medical treatment costs you nothing except for your 15% sales tax burden?

Wouldn't you much rather get this bill posted above with the bottom amount shown owing as -zero-?

Wouldn't it be nice as with other countries for Americans to not have the burden of massive personal healthcare costs destroying financial futures and entire family futures?
Aren't people just a little sick, tired and fed up with our insurance for profit system?
You know, the outrage is never going to end, Obamacare or no Obamacare.
As long as health is profitable, insurance companies will never end the demand for more and more cash from the sick, as well as the healthy. You will forever endlessly owe more and more year after year. Even with Obamacare and having insurance thru one of the exchanges, this bill above would still have a balance owed running well into the hundreds or thousands of dollars. That is with insurance. Any insurance.

I doubt paying a 15% sales tax, even 18% on goods and services when added up would come anywhere close to the burden of paying several thousands for a just one "one-time" medical expense.
But this is not up to me, I just work here. 😀
 
The "funny" thing is this doesn't even have anything to do with "insurance" or "not having insurance", since this doesn't affect those (insane) COSTS for a rather trivial appendectomy in the slightest. The problem here is "your system"...I mean just look at that bill and you'll see that there must be something seriously wrong.

A couple years ago we had to go to the ER in Germany...WE DID NOT HAVE INSURANCE (which is an extremely rare thing in Europe) so I was prepared to spend all of it out of pocket.

We spent an entire day at the ER where they did X-Rays, EKG, several blood tests, doctor consultation etc. and the entire bill for the day at the hospital I think was like €80. (Trying to remember since it's already a while ago). All I know is that I was shocked that it was so little money when I told the cashier at the hospital that I just came back from the US where this would've likely cost 1000s...so I basically had to double-check on her whether the bill REALLY was that low.

We also had several doctor's visits in Germany where I paid out of pocket (each and anytime facing the rather surprised faces when we told them we don't have insurance)...and I think the highest we ever paid in cash for a doctor's visit, tests etc.. was like €100 something.

Edit: And even with a CT..anesthesia etc.... come on, give me a break...$6.5k for a effing CT?

It's really difficult to NOT turn this into a P&N-like discussion but obviously something is seriously, seriously off with your health-care system.
 
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the biggest bullshit here other than the idiot who says you only pay the hospital is the fact that hospitals pretty much charge whatever they want without oversight or penalty.
 
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