Some guy posts his hospital bill online

[foghorn67]

wow. A thread right up my alley.
First, a few million things to address...

I remember a time not so long ago when creditors did not pay attention to bad marks on CR reports that had to do with medical bills.
That is no longer the case today.
This huge bill posted above will most likely go into collections at some point, very soon, and pretty much destroy the credit rating. Two creatures that never forget, an elephant and hospital collection departments.
And it is true as someone posted above, when the doctor bills also start coming in, this bottom line bill figure will double if not triple.

Im not going to get into Obamacare or our healthcare for profit system which Obamacare really did not change much with reform, but the scenario above is obviously pretty grim, and way too common. Especially for folks under the age of 25, those that feel indestructible. Famous last words....

Im just going to ask a simple question here as food for thought...
Wouldn't you as American citizens rather pay, say, a 15% sales tax on goods and services and have all your healthcare costs covered by national insurance, where getting sick or needing medical treatment costs you nothing except for your 15% sales tax burden?

Wouldn't you much rather get this bill posted above with the bottom amount shown owing as -zero-?

Wouldn't it be nice as with other countries for Americans to not have the burden of massive personal healthcare costs destroying financial futures and entire family futures?
Aren't people just a little sick, tired and fed up with our insurance for profit system?
You know, the outrage is never going to end, Obamacare or no Obamacare.
As long as health is profitable, insurance companies will never end the demand for more and more cash from the sick, as well as the healthy. You will forever endlessly owe more and more year after year. Even with Obamacare and having insurance thru one of the exchanges, this bill above would still have a balance owed running well into the hundreds or thousands of dollars. That is with insurance. Any insurance.

I doubt paying a 15% sales tax, even 18% on goods and services when added up would come anywhere close to the burden of paying several thousands for a just one "one-time" medical expense.
But this is not up to me, I just work here. 😀

To all your questions, no.
We have the ability to provide healthcare to our citizens without your stupid, apologetic and expensive non-sense. (Here me out).
It shouldn't COST that much. Let me re-phrase. They shouldn't charge that much.

Fundamental concept. Right now, you accept what hospitals, doctors, services, imaging, transport costs. You skip that part. Most Americans do. They just accept an appendectomy costs 30-80 grand. (Until they are billed w/o insurance).

Everyone is bickering if it's going to be 100% free market or Obamacare (or insert someone else).
Hell, Obamacare was written not to change the actual charges so your 7-8 figured salary hospital administrator doesn't huff and puff.

That shouldn't be the argument, we shouldn't have to pay higher taxes in concern for universal coverage.

 

[OutHouse]

These rates are crazy. Someone tell me again why Obamacare would be a bad thing.

So you you think hospitals are goiong to be cheaper with the ACA? BWHAHAHAH! !!!

 

[moonbogg]

At least with Obamacare we're doing something different. What we've had so far hasn't worked (unless you got insurance and don't care about others). If you don't care about fellow americans going broke for health care, then you deserve to go broke and lose everything. I want to see your ass in the welfare line begging for discounted obamacare. Self centered fucks.

 

[Dresdenboy]

In Germany we have both systems, a general form of insurance and private insurances. The costs are regulated in a way, that for a base catalog of services defined amounts will be paid. But for ppl with private insurance the docs are allowed to claim higher costs, up to specific factors (2.3x or 3.5x depending on complexity). These are usually covered by the private insurances.
Due to the factor the service is better, while the insurance often costs less than the generic one.

 

[OverVolt]

To all your questions, no.
We have the ability to provide healthcare to our citizens without your stupid, apologetic and expensive non-sense. (Here me out).
It shouldn't COST that much. Let me re-phrase. They shouldn't charge that much.

Fundamental concept. Right now, you accept what hospitals, doctors, services, imaging, transport costs. You skip that part. Most Americans do. They just accept an appendectomy costs 30-80 grand. (Until they are billed w/o insurance).

Everyone is bickering if it's going to be 100% free market or Obamacare (or insert someone else).
Hell, Obamacare was written not to change the actual charges so your 7-8 figured salary hospital administrator doesn't huff and puff.

That shouldn't be the argument, we shouldn't have to pay higher taxes in concern for universal coverage.

The free market AFAIK is why it costs that much. Healthcare is broken down into local monopolies not unlike a power monopoly. You all took econ 101 hopefully. You should know how monopolies start charging excessive prices much higher than the price that would yield the most common good. Where supply and demand should be meeting to provide the most goods at the best cost instead of charging a higher price, and keeping a lower supply.

Its so stereotypical of monopoly behavior its just not some example cited in a textbook from 65 years ago, just modern day. I really hope your education paid off and you can spot it when its right infront of you in the OP.

 

[Demoralized]

Had mine removed in the 15th of December and it cost me $0.

 

[Mark R]

And those are just the bills from the hospital. Wait for his outrage when the bills from the surgeon(s) and radiologist(s) come in.

Those figures are nuts. Total fabrications to take advantage of people who can pay.

The actual cost of a CT scan of the "whole body" is actually about $300, including a fair wage for the radiologist.

One of the advantages of a single national provider is greater bargaining power with the hospitals. For example, in the UK, hospitals are technically independent, but the government acts as single payer. The hospital bills the government for diagnosis, and receives a flat tariff for the diagnosis.

For example, if a UK hospital diagnoses and treats appendicitis, then the government issues the hospital a flat payment of $2,500 (that includes all board, surgery, labs, CT scans, surgeon, anesthesiologst, radiologist, etc.)

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Also that ct scan cost is crazy. 7 grand? MRIs don't even run in that range here. I remember in Texas basic CTS being 1500 to 3000 USD a pop. The recovery room cost is also crazy as you're only there for 1-3 hours or so.

A 7k ct is insane, you can get one in the UK for about £500 privately ( about $800?)

 

[Mark R]

A 7k ct is insane, you can get one in the UK for about £500 privately ( about $800?)

Indeed. And NHS cost is far lower than that, typically under £200 (inclusive of all sundries and fees).

 

[OutHouse]

At least with Obamacare we're doing something different. What we've had so far hasn't worked (unless you got insurance and don't care about others). If you don't care about fellow americans going broke for health care, then you deserve to go broke and lose everything. I want to see your ass in the welfare line begging for discounted obamacare. Self centered fucks.

Your chances of going bankrupt under the ACA is higher . But yea we are doing something different so its all unicorns and ice cream for you.

 

[Franz316]

'Merika, F'k yeah!

 

[Zargon]

jesus

just paid like 340 bucks for all my wifes pregnancy expenses, from first visit through birth.

of course on my old insurance it would have been 3K

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Great, so the team has to know which end of the scalpel to pick up. The death rate for appendectomy is virtually zero, so how do you scale that? If 24 hours in a hospital is worth $55k, then obviously getting your finger stitched when you cut it with a knife is worth ~$2k, since it takes about an hour to accomplish, and the people are "experienced".

You are minimizing the difficulty of abdominal surgery a wee bit, me thinks.

The fact that a procedure is routine to a trained surgeon does not mean it is easy or should be cheap.

 

[lxskllr]

You are minimizing the difficulty of abdominal surgery a wee bit, me thinks.

Yea, I'm minimizing it a wee bit, but not as much as they're maximizing it at $55k.

 

[zephyrprime]

So how many people at 20 years old have $25k surplus cash to throw at a medical bill for a (at this point) basic procedure. Or do they charge people without insurance less?

They charge people without insurance more. They charge people with insurance less so long as they are within the insurance company's provider network. This guy probably went to a hospital that wasn't within the network.

 

[zephyrprime]

The free market AFAIK is why it costs that much. Healthcare is broken down into local monopolies not unlike a power monopoly. You all took econ 101 hopefully. You should know how monopolies start charging excessive prices much higher than the price that would yield the most common good. Where supply and demand should be meeting to provide the most goods at the best cost instead of charging a higher price, and keeping a lower supply.

Its so stereotypical of monopoly behavior its just not some example cited in a textbook from 65 years ago, just modern day. I really hope your education paid off and you can spot it when its right infront of you in the OP.

In don't think you are right on this at all. Medical care is not a monopoly because there are multiple providers. The problem is that there is no transparency of pricing. Capitalism assumes the buyers are cost conscious but health care proves that that is not always the case. Basically we have a case where people buy things without knowing the price before hand. The fault lies with the hospitals which do not provide this information.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Yep, Because socialized healthcare is working out so well right now.

What the fuck are you doing out of your cage???

 

[BarkingGhostar]

You are minimizing the difficulty of abdominal surgery a wee bit, me thinks.

The fact that a procedure is routine to a trained surgeon does not mean it is easy or should be cheap.

I'm sure there was some complexity by the Radiology Technician when they shoved the guy onto the slab for the CT scan. It was still >4 times more than what my doctor's office charges.

 

[BoberFett]

Europe has free healthcare, when americans pay 55K during healing, we buy new cars and houses for that cash instead.

Really? Free healthcare?

That's funny, I thought that mass numbers of Europeans don't own cars and take public transportation everywhere, and your average home sizes are tiny compared to the US.

So how exactly is your "free" healthcare making you richer?

 

[notposting]

This was a bill that my insurance provider received from a hospital:

I really hope I see something like that soon.

Just spent two days in the hospital. Woke up 1am day after Christmas with heart racing and taking beats off. Chest pain by 5am. Had wife come home and we went to the ER. One day in ER. Overnight and next day in regular room. 3 ECG's, echocardiogram, CT scan, chest X-ray, 3 blood draws, 2 sets of blood cultures, monitoring throughout, 4 or 5 blood sugar tests, 2 shots of heparin, some crappy meals, couple baby aspirins and a beta blocker, I expect to see something $50-100K+ easily.

🙁

Bonus -- they don't know jack. "Um, well you're alive, so like, see ya later!"

 

[BoberFett]

Great, so the team has to know which end of the scalpel to pick up. The death rate for appendectomy is virtually zero, so how do you scale that? If 24 hours in a hospital is worth $55k, then obviously getting your finger stitched when you cut it with a knife is worth ~$2k, since it takes about an hour to accomplish, and the people are "experienced".

Some people have started to push the idea that not every bump or scrape requires top doctors to be flown in.

Let midwives handle normal pregnancies and bring in doctors for complications. Let nurses handle more issues and bring in doctors when necessary.

Doctors are a limited resource. Treat them like one and don't use them needlessly.

 

[theeedude]

We need to regulate health care as a public utility.

 

[destrekor]

Some people have started to push the idea that not every bump or scrape requires top doctors to be flown in.

Let midwives handle normal pregnancies and bring in doctors for complications. Let nurses handle more issues and bring in doctors when necessary.

Doctors are a limited resource. Treat them like one and don't use them needlessly.

That falls back on the lawsuit-happy public for bringing it about in the first place, I reckon.

This whole "everyone in a hospital must have a proper doctor take care of them" thing is most likely the result of the few rare human mistakes happening at the nurse level, and people suing them into oblivion. So now the most paid, most insured professional is probably forced to sign off on even the most routine medical events, when nursing students are completely capable of handling a fair portion of them, and licensed nurses the majority of outpatient work from there. Diagnostics with less clear determinations, yeah, go get the doctor. Determining someone has strep? Let the nurse do everything. Granted, that script needs a doctor, and because of medications and more lawsuits and abuse potential, that doctor will probably want to see the patient, at least a quick passing glance, maybe a hello.

Which, more often than not, is all most quick doctor's visits really are, anyway. A doctor might, essentially, say hi, barely go over you if at all, and likely confirm what the nurse said anyway.
It happens that a doc might change the outcome, but it's one of many things probably ensuring costs only continue to rise. And I'd fully be willing to get diagnosed with influenza, strep, sinusitis, etc, prescribed what I need, and sent on my way, all by a nurse or other qualified assistant. Most of the basic diagnostic work is standardized lab-in-a-kit with clear results.
It might be viral or something less clear, but half the time, you get started on the same course of treatment and without improvement, they bring you back in - and if it's dangerously bad already, it's usually clear in your appearance.

Anything internal medicine, like "oh, not sure if I had a heart attack" - doctors reading the data is probably very much necessary.

 

[notposting]

Some people have started to push the idea that not every bump or scrape requires top doctors to be flown in.

Let midwives handle normal pregnancies and bring in doctors for complications. Let nurses handle more issues and bring in doctors when necessary.

Doctors are a limited resource. Treat them like one and don't use them needlessly.

Second son was born this year. After the debacle of our first, we changed everything. Ended up going with a nurse midwife group, and hired a doula (who was also an RN) out of pocket. Different hospital as well.

Despite the "high-risk pregnancy", wife had a successful VBAC, no drugs, and when #2 was born he and I were the only males and non-nurses in the room :biggrin:

 

[cuafpr]

A guy posted his hospital bill online. He was 20 yrs old and got a appendicitis.




These rates are crazy. Someone tell me again why Obamacare would be a bad thing.

either way that bill has to get paid rather its the kid, or the tax payers...someone is paying.