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Soldier killed boy in cold blood, say British volunteers
- Thread starter Czar
- Start date
Czar? Are you really anti-American as everyone seems to think you are? If so why?
As to your article, I can not attest to the veractity of the particular incident. However, the conduct of IDF units and thier maintenance of discipline has been in frightening decline as the now 2 year old second Intifada grinds on. Constant involvement in low/high intensity urban operations, urban pacification, law enforcment, and conventional military actions will eventually sap the moral and discipline of any armed force, even the Israelis. One need only look at the sorry state of the elite Duvedien unit, or some of the reserve engineering units that have been called into service in the territories. Training rotations have been disrupted, soldiers have been faced with no win situations, and the ultimate political solution to the conflict is nowhere in sight. In situations such as this, the occupying forces always become more brutal and less disciplined.
It is unnacceptable for a soldier of a democratic state to for any reason use lethal force on unarmed civillians who pose no immediate threat to the soldiers. (please note this is completely different from the collateral casualties that will result from conducting military operations amongst civillians) This is solidly laid out in international law including the Geneva conventions and even in the IDF's own use of force regulations as laid out by the General staff and elucidated by the Judge Advocate General who conincidentally is now a member of the General Staff starting with the beginning of the second intifada.
This includes using live fire to enforce curfews, break up demonstrations, etc. which is a shocking violation of the Geneva convention. For those of you who say that the Palestinians have no right to "complain" about such actions because Palestinian sucide bombers are committing atrocities against Israeli civillians as well, I would ask you to re-consider your viewpoint. If a terrorist targeting unarmed non-combatant civillians is immoral ,a supposedly disciplined and trained soldier doing it is even more shocking. We expect terrorists to do such things (that is why they are called terorists after all), but soldiers of a democratic state which supposedly supports the principles of human rights should never ever do such things. Not all Palestinians are legitimate targets simply for being Palestinians. Thier lives are no less valuable than that of a Jewish Israeli. To think otherwise is a threat to the very soul of the Jewish state, and the honor of the IDF. Thier is a clear line between self defense, effective tactical and strategic operations, and brutal thuggery.
To hear US citizens on this forum casually dismissing the killing of children really frightens me. Brutality != Security Blatant Disregard for Human Life != Security
As to your article, I can not attest to the veractity of the particular incident. However, the conduct of IDF units and thier maintenance of discipline has been in frightening decline as the now 2 year old second Intifada grinds on. Constant involvement in low/high intensity urban operations, urban pacification, law enforcment, and conventional military actions will eventually sap the moral and discipline of any armed force, even the Israelis. One need only look at the sorry state of the elite Duvedien unit, or some of the reserve engineering units that have been called into service in the territories. Training rotations have been disrupted, soldiers have been faced with no win situations, and the ultimate political solution to the conflict is nowhere in sight. In situations such as this, the occupying forces always become more brutal and less disciplined.
It is unnacceptable for a soldier of a democratic state to for any reason use lethal force on unarmed civillians who pose no immediate threat to the soldiers. (please note this is completely different from the collateral casualties that will result from conducting military operations amongst civillians) This is solidly laid out in international law including the Geneva conventions and even in the IDF's own use of force regulations as laid out by the General staff and elucidated by the Judge Advocate General who conincidentally is now a member of the General Staff starting with the beginning of the second intifada.
This includes using live fire to enforce curfews, break up demonstrations, etc. which is a shocking violation of the Geneva convention. For those of you who say that the Palestinians have no right to "complain" about such actions because Palestinian sucide bombers are committing atrocities against Israeli civillians as well, I would ask you to re-consider your viewpoint. If a terrorist targeting unarmed non-combatant civillians is immoral ,a supposedly disciplined and trained soldier doing it is even more shocking. We expect terrorists to do such things (that is why they are called terorists after all), but soldiers of a democratic state which supposedly supports the principles of human rights should never ever do such things. Not all Palestinians are legitimate targets simply for being Palestinians. Thier lives are no less valuable than that of a Jewish Israeli. To think otherwise is a threat to the very soul of the Jewish state, and the honor of the IDF. Thier is a clear line between self defense, effective tactical and strategic operations, and brutal thuggery.
To hear US citizens on this forum casually dismissing the killing of children really frightens me. Brutality != Security Blatant Disregard for Human Life != Security
This is the worst thing I've seen in my time here. Actually, it's the worst thing I've seen in my life. There was no way Baha could have been a threat to a soldier 120 yards away with a flak jacket and a helmet and sitting in an APC. He had nothing in his hands and even if he'd had a stone he could not have thrown it effectively from that distance. I
That invalidates the "eyewitness" testimony as far as I'm concerned. Even if Czar isn't biased, 5 will get you 10 that the "volunteer" is 😉 He would probably say anything to paint an image of the Israeli soldiers as baby killers, just like they did to our troops in 'nam 🙁
On second thought, maybe DAPUNISHER is right. Reading their webpage it is crystal clear that are certainly not neutral.
Tell us the truth oh wise one
Nitemare
Lifer
It's not just that it's that is all you post about. When is the last time you posted something good that Israel or the US has done.
This was a tragic incident if and only if it really did happen, but this was one innocent compared to busloads or store loads of innocents that Palestinians kill.
I personally dislike what the Palestinians are doing, and Israel's reaction. However, I can understand what they must be feeling..It's like the flea on the dog, sometimes scratching will not suffice...Sometimes you have to sink your teeth in and bite.
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