Soldier doesn't want to be used

[TastesLikeChicken]

I've always wondered this myself. Have those on the left who parade around soldiers, both alive and dead, for their own partisan shillage ever actually asked the soldiers or their families if they want to be portrayed as victims? Now a soldier wonders if there's anything he can do about it.

http://media.nationalreview.com/066369.asp

"Don't Want to be Used"

Capt. William Guenther in Baghdad:

Sir, I hoping that you could possibly help me with this. Maybe you can't, but I'll have gotten it off my chest. I am an Army officer that is just beginning a year long tour in Iraq, as an advisor with the Iraqi Special Police Commandos. While I have every reason to believe that I will return home safety in eleven months, my eyes are also open to the possibility of that not being the case.

The reason I am writing you is that I have just read your article about what Susan Paynter wrote about the Marine "kidnapping" in Seattle. At the end of your article, you mentioned that you were somewhat taken aback by the fact that just a week or so earlier she had written a tribute to those who had lost a loved one. I went to her paper's Web site to read that article. Sure enough there it was: another story about a soldier, or their family, as victim. And typically they are portrayed as a victim of George Bush or Donald Rumsfeld. In and of itself that isn't a problem, but in so many cases that is all soldiers over here are to the elite: victims? or in the case of the favorite story to come out of this war, Abu Ghraib, villians. Anyway, I looked further into what Ms. Paynter had written recently, and there it was: an article about an "artist", Phil Hansen, who had created a "war collage" where he painted the faces of every dead soldier or Marine over a picture of George Bush. Ms. Paynter was very understanding of how Mr. Hansen was "showing his support for the troops," but that they had died because Bush had misled the country.

Which brings me to my point. I thought about it before I got over here, and feel even stronger about it now that it may be my reality. God forbid, if something happens to me over here, I do not want to be used by the likes of Phil Hansen in Seattle, Michael Moore, Gary Trudeau, or Ted Koppel, to make their political points against the war, the President, and finally the country, all the while saying "they support the troops". I have no doubt in my mind that Michael Moore would rather hear a report that 600 soldiers were killed last month in Iraq rather than 60 ? but he "supports the troops". Anyway, are you aware of any list that is around that soldiers could put their name on so that if something happened, while understanding our families couldn't stop it, that these despicable phonies would be asked not to use our deaths to further their agenda that runs completely counter to why I volunteered to be where I am and counter to the real desires of 99 percent of the Iraqi people?

I have a wife and a four year old son. Truly my biggest concern is how selfish I have been to leave him for a year, and possibly allowing him to grow up never truly knowing his father. I have discussed this with my wife, I don't want him ever to believe that he or his father were victims of his country, which I love even more after being away from it again.

Again, if you are aware of any such petition please let me know.
I haven?t been able to find any petition like that, but maybe the greater NRO community knows of something. If I get any information I?ll let you know as soon as I can.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
I've always wondered this myself. Have those on the left who parade around soldiers, both alive and dead, for their own partisan shillage ever actually asked the soldiers or their families if they want to be portrayed as victims? Now a soldier wonders if there's anything he can do about it.

http://media.nationalreview.com/066369.asp

"Don't Want to be Used"

Capt. William Guenther in Baghdad:

Sir, I hoping that you could possibly help me with this. Maybe you can't, but I'll have gotten it off my chest. I am an Army officer that is just beginning a year long tour in Iraq, as an advisor with the Iraqi Special Police Commandos. While I have every reason to believe that I will return home safety in eleven months, my eyes are also open to the possibility of that not being the case.

The reason I am writing you is that I have just read your article about what Susan Paynter wrote about the Marine "kidnapping" in Seattle. At the end of your article, you mentioned that you were somewhat taken aback by the fact that just a week or so earlier she had written a tribute to those who had lost a loved one. I went to her paper's Web site to read that article. Sure enough there it was: another story about a soldier, or their family, as victim. And typically they are portrayed as a victim of George Bush or Donald Rumsfeld. In and of itself that isn't a problem, but in so many cases that is all soldiers over here are to the elite: victims? or in the case of the favorite story to come out of this war, Abu Ghraib, villians. Anyway, I looked further into what Ms. Paynter had written recently, and there it was: an article about an "artist", Phil Hansen, who had created a "war collage" where he painted the faces of every dead soldier or Marine over a picture of George Bush. Ms. Paynter was very understanding of how Mr. Hansen was "showing his support for the troops," but that they had died because Bush had misled the country.

Which brings me to my point. I thought about it before I got over here, and feel even stronger about it now that it may be my reality. God forbid, if something happens to me over here, I do not want to be used by the likes of Phil Hansen in Seattle, Michael Moore, Gary Trudeau, or Ted Koppel, to make their political points against the war, the President, and finally the country, all the while saying "they support the troops". I have no doubt in my mind that Michael Moore would rather hear a report that 600 soldiers were killed last month in Iraq rather than 60 ? but he "supports the troops". Anyway, are you aware of any list that is around that soldiers could put their name on so that if something happened, while understanding our families couldn't stop it, that these despicable phonies would be asked not to use our deaths to further their agenda that runs completely counter to why I volunteered to be where I am and counter to the real desires of 99 percent of the Iraqi people?

I have a wife and a four year old son. Truly my biggest concern is how selfish I have been to leave him for a year, and possibly allowing him to grow up never truly knowing his father. I have discussed this with my wife, I don't want him ever to believe that he or his father were victims of his country, which I love even more after being away from it again.

Again, if you are aware of any such petition please let me know.
I haven?t been able to find any petition like that, but maybe the greater NRO community knows of something. If I get any information I?ll let you know as soon as I can.

Michael Moore supports the troops!

 

[dahunan]

>>>>>>>I have no doubt in my mind that Michael Moore would rather hear a report that 600 soldiers were killed last month in Iraq rather than 60 <<<<<<<<<

why listen to anything more he has to say after that?


I have no doubt in my mind that Bush would rather hear that we found an new oil reserve in Iraq than he would that we have found wmd's. - why listen after that?

He is wasting his time ... .he is abused far more by HIS president than he ever was by some reporter.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: dahunan
>>>>>>>I have no doubt in my mind that Michael Moore would rather hear a report that 600 soldiers were killed last month in Iraq rather than 60 <<<<<<<<<

why listen to anything more he has to say after that?


I have no doubt in my mind that Bush would rather hear that we found an new oil reserve in Iraq than he would that we have found wmd's. - why listen after that?

He is wasting his time ... .he is abused far more by HIS president than he ever was by some reporter.

In other words his opinion doesnt count, but Ill display my "Support the troops" sticker anyways!

 

[ntdz]

Bravo to him.

 

[umbrella39]

Sounds like he has every right to make this decision. Are we supposed to have a problem with that? Do ya think perhaps there are soldiers who feel the exact opposite as he does? Ones who don't want to be over there, know this is a BS sham, and want to be paraded should the worst happen. Hmmm.

 

[dahunan]

BTW, and FWIW I fully support his right to feel this way and to make a petition and to do all he can to stop the media from doing this if it bothers him...

and there is absolutely nothing that bothers me about the way he feels.

I just hope he chooses his battle wisely because he only has so much energy and so much life to make change that best helps him

 

[Zebo]

Heh life's not all about him.. He may not mind dying for nothing or for the lies he's been told but there are tons forced to fight who don't want to be there. They are in fact there aginst their will, aka slavery, with stop gaps and contracts signed under duress like poverty. "Voluntary" my arse try and get out, change jobs, and you'll have a cell with your name on it.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Heh life's not all about him.. He may not mind dying for nothing or for the lies he's been told but there are tons forced to fight who don't want to be there. They are in fact there aginst their will, aka slavery, with stop gaps and contracts signed under duress like poverty. "Voluntary" my arse try and get out, change jobs, and you'll have a cell with your name on it.

When you join the military...you sign a contract...and you have to honor that contract...so of course you can't desert when we actually need you to fight.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Zebo
Heh life's not all about him.. He may not mind dying for nothing or for the lies he's been told but there are tons forced to fight who don't want to be there. They are in fact there aginst their will, aka slavery, with stop gaps and contracts signed under duress like poverty. "Voluntary" my arse try and get out, change jobs, and you'll have a cell with your name on it.

When you join the military...you sign a contract...and you have to honor that contract...so of course you can't desert when we actually need you to fight.

Yea so sue them like any other employment contract which are broken. Jail is slavery, so are stop loss which go beyond contract terms and forcably keep you in.

If you're a volunteer, why do they need to hold a gun to your face or lenghthy prison term to make you work? And read the thirteeth amendment.

 

[umbrella39]

Sticking with the OP, while I think he has the right to protest and want to be on the "do not parade" list, does the media have the right to run what ever the hell stories they want? I am not 100% sure what he is asking as he is somewhat vague. If he is asking for amnesty and not to be used in ANY light, good or bad should he die, then I say no.

However, if all he is asking for is some sort of notation that, hey I support what I am doing over here and I want it known that I am not a victim, then what's the big deal, really? I don't know that a list is required as I would hope his or any other spouse would let the world know how wrong it was to portray their loved one as a victim. But if he needs a list then I am sure someone is making one right now for him to sign.

Are there instances of soldiers being wrongly portrayed as victims in Iraq other than the war collage (which I don't agree btw as there are obviously soldiers in the collage that support Bush)? In any event, after reading and re-reading his choice of words a second time, I have my concerns as to whether or not this is a soldier in Iraq or just a random Libbie hater writing the blogger. I did email Stephen Spruiell and asked him if he verified this source.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
In any event, after reading and re-reading his choice of words a second time, I have my concerns as to whether or not this is a soldier in Iraq or just a random Libbie hater writing the blogger. I did email Stephen Spruiell and asked him if he verified this source.

That was my first thought too.. thanks for writing him.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Zebo
Heh life's not all about him.. He may not mind dying for nothing or for the lies he's been told but there are tons forced to fight who don't want to be there. They are in fact there aginst their will, aka slavery, with stop gaps and contracts signed under duress like poverty. "Voluntary" my arse try and get out, change jobs, and you'll have a cell with your name on it.

When you join the military...you sign a contract...and you have to honor that contract...so of course you can't desert when we actually need you to fight.

Yea so sue them like any other employment contract which are broken. Jail is slavery, so are stop loss which go beyond contract terms and forcably keep you in.

If you're a volunteer, why do they need to hold a gun to your face or lenghthy prison term to make you work? And read the thirteeth amendment.

LMAO, are you serious? The military is different from a work contract. You can't just let people leave the military when a war starts. How effective would that be? Oh, and slavery is nothing like jail...

Your whole argument makes no sense, and you'd be hard pressed to find someone who agrees with you.

 

[Steeplerot]

nm I am dedicating a whole thread to this

 

[sandorski]

He and everyone else there is being Used by somebody. As the Property of the Government and thus the People, he doesn't really have the Rights of a Civilian and as such why should he have this Right?

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
I've always wondered this myself. Have those on the left who parade around soldiers, both alive and dead, for their own partisan shillage ever actually asked the soldiers or their families if they want to be portrayed as victims?

Have you ever wondered the opposite?

 

[RightIsWrong]

Do you think that Pat Tillman's family is wrong then for saying that they oppose their son being used as a propaganda tool by the military and this administration?

 

[ExpertNovice]

Although I understand how he feels the answer, of course, is no. Freedom of speech still exists.

Soldiers are free, if they think about it, to explain their beliefs and have them published for all to see. Regardless of their position. By doing so then can, in a fashion, counter their motives and desires from being twisted by others.

 

[Rainsford]

I fully support the idea that soldiers shouldn't be used by people with other motives. This includes any liberals who claim they support the troops when all they want is a stick to beat President Bush with, as well as any conservatives who claim to support the troops when all they really care about is supporting the war. This soldier correctly pointed out that there are people in the first group, but there are a lot of people in the second group as well. Some of them post here.

But the largest group that this officer (and TLC, ntdz and others) failed to identify is the people who truly care about the soldiers. Contrary to the idiots, this isn't a left or a right thing. Righties can care about the soldiers, while believing that the war is right and that the soldiers' sacrafice is for a good cause. And lefties can care about the soldiers, while not supporting the war and believing that the best way to respect and support the troops is to bring them home from a wrong war. The lefty position isn't about making soldiers the victims, it is about respecting our troops enough to only use them when necessary. Of course both sides are opinion here, but this idea that supporting the troops is a left/right issue is really stupid.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Do you think that Pat Tillman's family is wrong then for saying that they oppose their son being used as a propaganda tool by the military and this administration?

I'd be more interested in what Pat Tillman himself had to say on the subject.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Do you think that Pat Tillman's family is wrong then for saying that they oppose their son being used as a propaganda tool by the military and this administration?

I'd be more interested in what Pat Tillman himself had to say on the subject.

That might be difficult, but I have trouble imagining him saying he's glad they lied in order to drum up support.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Do you think that Pat Tillman's family is wrong then for saying that they oppose their son being used as a propaganda tool by the military and this administration?

I'd be more interested in what Pat Tillman himself had to say on the subject.

That might be difficult, but I have trouble imagining him saying he's glad they lied in order to drum up support.

Pat Tillman died in Afghanistan by friendly-fire.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Do you think that Pat Tillman's family is wrong then for saying that they oppose their son being used as a propaganda tool by the military and this administration?

I'd be more interested in what Pat Tillman himself had to say on the subject.

That might be difficult, but I have trouble imagining him saying he's glad they lied in order to drum up support.

I think that would be a safe bet.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Do you think that Pat Tillman's family is wrong then for saying that they oppose their son being used as a propaganda tool by the military and this administration?

I'd be more interested in what Pat Tillman himself had to say on the subject.

That might be difficult, but I have trouble imagining him saying he's glad they lied in order to drum up support.

I still have questions as to who really lied - the Army or the guys that killed him. The Army didn't find out the real truth until 10 days after his death and notified his parents of the facts immediately upon the end of th investigation. By then the lie-cat was already out of the bag and the media was off and running with the "hero" story. So where did this alternate story come from in the first place? Did it come from the guys who killed him and an attempt at a cover-up of their mistake?

Would Pat have been disgusted at the Army or his fellow soldiers?

 

[Zebo]

You can't just let people leave the military when a war starts. How effective would that be?

Depends what war does'nt it? In WWII men were lined up around times square begging to fight the nazis.. But the only way we can conduct unjust and territorial wars is by forced servitude and huge economic incentives.


Lemme put it to you another way, if we got attacked by a real threat to our way of life, you would'nt even have to pay people, they'd be there. (think american revolution)