Solar Flares; I was thinking

[RedRooster]

Wow, very compelling arguments. You should get an award.

I guess I didn't read the OP too well. I assumed since he meant such hot weather, he meant very cold weather too. 0F is tshirt and shorts weather!

In that case, neither is dangerous. Impoverished Mexicans and impoverished Swedes survive that shit all the time. I laugh.

Now, I guess if we're talking -40C, then you're going to die. No question.

 

[RedRooster]

What about 55C for extreme heat?

There's not too much point in going to the absolute extremes.

We probably get nearly as many -40C temps in the winter as someone in non super hot climates get +40C days. Those are both extremes. -17C is not extreme.

 

[spidey07]

Wow, you southern folks are sure blissfully unaware of anything below freezing. Its kind of funny actually.
Winter kills. Summer is an inconvenience. This isn't even close.

What are you talking about? You can always stay warm or get warm. Shit, most of my warm gear you'll get hot if it's only 20 degrees. Want to cool down? Go outside for a minute or two.

Now contrast that with heat. There is no relief from it outside of water or cooling the body. Tell me what can cool the body when it's super hot? Shade? You need constant water to do it. How long does it take to die in the heat without water? About a day. How long does it take to die in the cold with proper gear and endless supply of water? A month tops.

I'm plenty aware of freezing temps, did it in scouts many times and did it for the last 20 years on the mountains snowboarding. It's MUCH easier to add heat than it is to take it away as another poster said.

Put it another way, would you rather camp in 100 degree weather or 20?

Give me 20 every single time.

 

[IAteYourMother]

What are you talking about? You can always stay warm or get warm. Shit, most of my warm gear you'll get hot if it's only 20 degrees. Want to cool down? Go outside for a minute or two.

Now contrast that with heat. There is no relief from it outside of water or cooling the body. Tell me what can cool the body when it's super hot? Shade? You need constant water to do it. How long does it take to die in the heat without water? About a day. How long does it take to die in the cold with proper gear and endless supply of water? A month tops.

I'm plenty aware of freezing temps, did it in scouts many times and did it for the last 20 years on the mountains snowboarding. It's MUCH easier to add heat than it is to take it away as another poster said.

Put it another way, would you rather camp in 100 degree weather or 20?

Give me 20 every single time.

I would say 0 is more comparable to 100, and maybe it's better for you, since you can apparently afford alot of winter gear, but when we look at the overall population, I would be inclined to think that people would be less suited for the extreme cold than extreme heat.

 

[RedRooster]

Put it another way, would you rather camp in 100 degree weather or 20?

Give me 20 every single time.

Neither preferrably.
But you're right about those two temps. I misread the OP.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

We probably get nearly as many -40C temps in the winter as someone in non super hot climates get +40C days. Those are both extremes. -17C is not extreme.

-40C is more extreme than 40C, though. A lot more. About as extreme as you can get on this planet on hot weather is 55C. What's the equivalent to that on cold weather?

EDIT: nvm, found it.

 

[makken]

-40C is more extreme than 40C, though. A lot more. About as extreme as you can get on this planet on hot weather is 55C. What's the equivalent to that on cold weather?

from wiki:

Hottest inhabited place: Dallol, Ethiopia, whose annual mean temperature was recorded from 1960 to 1966 as 34.4 °C (93.9 °F).[13] The average daily maximum temperature during the same period was 41.1 °C (106.0 °F).[14]
Coldest inhabited place: Oymyakon (Russian: Оймяко&#1085, a village (selo) in Oymyakonsky Ulus of the Sakha Republic, Russia, located along the Indigirka River.[15] It has −16 °C (3 °F) as yearly average and −46 °C (−51 °F) as daily average in January, the coldest month.

Absolutes:

Africa: 57.8 °C (136.0 °F) Al 'Aziziyah, Libya
Antarctica: −89.2 °C (−128.6 °F) Vostok Station

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremes_on_earth

 

[RedRooster]

-40C is more extreme than 40C, though. A lot more. About as extreme as you can get on this planet on hot weather is 55C. What's the equivalent to that on cold weather?

Don't they get about -50 consistently in Antarctic? The problem with cold is, any little wind compounds that way worse. So -50 with a decent wind is like -80C on bareskin. Basically death in 10 minutes if you get caught outside.

55C in the heat, if you found shade and had a breeze, you could live for a day or two next to a moving water source I would think.

Cold scares me. Not enough to move from this country, but those -45 nights when the power goes out for 20 minutes has my nancy boy ass pretty nervous.

 

[spidey07]

Neither preferrably.
But you're right about those two temps. I misread the OP.

It seems Pizza's question was about north in winter vs. south in summer in US.

I'll stick to my position. A lot easier to get water and stay warm, preserve food in the north during winter than south in the summer. Folks aren't prepared to meet either for the large part. Water is the key.

Oh, and how could I forget...

 

[drinkmorejava]

-17c is not that cold. I'm talking extreme cold.

Where in the US does it get colder than this for any period of time? Fargo, Duluth?

We're not talking antarctica.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Don't they get about -50 consistently in Antarctic? The problem with cold is, any little wind compounds that way worse. So -50 with a decent wind is like -80C on bareskin. Basically death in 10 minutes if you get caught outside.

55C in the heat, if you found shade and had a breeze, you could live for a day or two next to a moving water source I would think.

Cold scares me. Not enough to move from this country, but those -45 nights when the power goes out for 20 minutes has my nancy boy ass pretty nervous.

55C even if you found a huge shade is horrible. Good luck getting a breeze, too.

This planet has a lot lower extreme cold temps than hot, though, so it's not really a fair comparison.

If we were to take a situation which is a "bit" extreme for both, let's say -25C and 50C, you'd probably have less chances on 50C in the long run. Food dies quicker, there's water droughts, you have to be constantly hydrated, you lose energy quicker, etc. I'm pretty sure you'll survive with three jackets (which you probably have if you're in the North), putting on five t-shirts, good underwear, two gloves on each hand, some good boots, thick socks and two thick pants. Sure, you have to do more to stay hot initially, but once you do it you won't have to bother for a few hours. If you're in the heat it's a complete PITA since you have to do things constantly and the environment is more against you. Being inside is a lot worse in the heat.

 

[DrPizza]

I would say 0 is more comparable to 100, and maybe it's better for you, since you can apparently afford alot of winter gear, but when we look at the overall population, I would be inclined to think that people would be less suited for the extreme cold than extreme heat.

I didn't say the people in the South were going to be experiencing the temperatures they get in the North though. Odd as it may be to believe, the people in the North typically own coats, blankets, etc.

So, back on topic, middle of the summer heat (low 100's in the South) vs. middle of the winter cold (around 0F in the North) - we know that lots of people can go outside for an entire day and think nothing of it in either case. But, as a whole, is the South screwed without power in those temperatures? Or is the North screwed? (Well, they're both screwed, but who worse?)

 

[RedRooster]

I didn't say the people in the South were going to be experiencing the temperatures they get in the North though. Odd as it may be to believe, the people in the North typically own coats, blankets, etc.

So, back on topic, middle of the summer heat (low 100's in the South) vs. middle of the winter cold (around 0F in the North) - we know that lots of people can go outside for an entire day and think nothing of it in either case. But, as a whole, is the South screwed without power in those temperatures? Or is the North screwed? (Well, they're both screwed, but who worse?)

Still North. The Southern folk could still ride their bikes and go about their business. Would probably eat healthier too. Soon as the Northern folk couldn't get gas in their cars to move around, they'd be mad. And slightly chilled.

Everyone could just move to one of those middle states where its moderate all year? Somewhere down in the middle there, I dunno which one.

 

[Scouzer]

What about 55C for extreme heat?

There's not too much point in going to the absolute extremes.

Sub -40C happens every year here. Does 55C happen every year there?

-40 to -45 are normal a few times a winter.

 

[Scouzer]

Where in the US does it get colder than this for any period of time? Fargo, Duluth?

We're not talking antarctica.

...Alaska?

 

[xanis]

I didn't say the people in the South were going to be experiencing the temperatures they get in the North though. Odd as it may be to believe, the people in the North typically own coats, blankets, etc.

So, back on topic, middle of the summer heat (low 100's in the South) vs. middle of the winter cold (around 0F in the North) - we know that lots of people can go outside for an entire day and think nothing of it in either case. But, as a whole, is the South screwed without power in those temperatures? Or is the North screwed? (Well, they're both screwed, but who worse?)

I still maintain that the North would be screwed worse, on the basis that cold is more dangerous than heat.

It's not really as simple as putting on more clothes. You could put on multiple layers, but the fact of the matter is that you'd still be at risk for hypothermia if you didn't maintain circulation and take in enough calories to keep your body warm.

Heat, on the other hand, seems easier to beat... with shade and water, it's more uncomfortable than it is dangerous.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Sub -40C happens every year here. Does 55C happen every year there?

-40 to -45 are normal a few times a winter.

Hell no. We'd surely be dead in some hours.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

I still maintain that the North would be screwed worse, on the basis that cold is more dangerous than heat.

It's not really as simple as putting on more clothes. You could put on multiple layers, but the fact of the matter is that you'd still be at risk for hypothermia if you didn't maintain circulation and take in enough calories to keep your body warm.

Heat, on the other hand, seems easier to beat... with shade and water, it's more uncomfortable than it is dangerous.

Pretty sure this wouldn't be an issue unless you had skinny pants and shirts. With some thick jackets and pants and normal shirts it shouldn't be an issue at all. And intake of calories is much easier for a long time in the cold. Like I said, food lasts a lot longer. The issue of water droughts in extreme heat seems like the worst thing that could happen, and it's very common. What would you do then?

 

[JulesMaximus]

All US manufacturing would grind to a halt which would destroy the economy and the stock market. We would be thrown back into the middle ages basically. People who own farms would probably be okay. Everyone else would be fucked.

 

[Jeff7]

All US manufacturing would grind to a halt which would destroy the economy and the stock market. We would be thrown back into the middle ages basically. People who own farms would probably be okay. Everyone else would be fucked.

And of course, no running water. In cities, no power for sewage processing plants. Fun times.

 

[IAteYourMother]

I didn't say the people in the South were going to be experiencing the temperatures they get in the North though. Odd as it may be to believe, the people in the North typically own coats, blankets, etc.

So, back on topic, middle of the summer heat (low 100's in the South) vs. middle of the winter cold (around 0F in the North) - we know that lots of people can go outside for an entire day and think nothing of it in either case. But, as a whole, is the South screwed without power in those temperatures? Or is the North screwed? (Well, they're both screwed, but who worse?)

And people in the South own shade do they not?

I'm not sure why it's off topic, this topic is just about what's worse, extreme heat or cold without power.

 

[makken]

I didn't say the people in the South were going to be experiencing the temperatures they get in the North though. Odd as it may be to believe, the people in the North typically own coats, blankets, etc.

So, back on topic, middle of the summer heat (low 100's in the South) vs. middle of the winter cold (around 0F in the North) - we know that lots of people can go outside for an entire day and think nothing of it in either case. But, as a whole, is the South screwed without power in those temperatures? Or is the North screwed? (Well, they're both screwed, but who worse?)

south imo. Again, its much easier to generate heat w/o electricity than it is to dissipate it

 

[DrPizza]

Just found statistics from the National Weather Service for 2010.
Extreme temperature related deaths/injuries
Cold: 34/1
Hot: 138/592

Seems that excessive heat is a far bigger killer than excessive cold.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Just found statistics from the National Weather Service for 2010.
Extreme temperature related deaths/injuries
Cold: 34/1
Hot: 138/592

Seems that excessive heat is a far bigger killer than excessive cold.

Should be fairly obvious, IMO. If you're indoors in the cold you have a huge advantage and since you should have good winter clothes if you're in a Northern country getting warm shouldn't prove too difficult. With high heat you have to depend on many factors, including the fact that water is typically scarce if there happen to be water droughts. It's a lot more annoying, too.

 

[PowerEngineer]

For what it's worth, the charged particles from the solar flares are funneled by the Earth's magnetic field towards the magnetic poles. This means that their impact on electrical grids is much more pronounced in the north than in the south. The "cold in the North" scenario is much more likely than "heat in the South".

As to the question of which would be more deadly, I'm inclined to think it'd be "cold in the North" (especially if it were prolonged). While it's true that many people will have independent heat sources (e.g. wood stoves, etc. -- NOT just open fireplaces) and/or outdoor camping gear, there will be many, many more that don't (especially the elderly who are most vulnerable in either scenario). Surviving without heat when the outside temperature is -20F (quite typical for cities like Minneapolis and north) is much harder than living through +100F without air conditioning. I suggest that more people have died during heat waves because most don't have air conditioning (but everyone has some sort of heating system).

My two cents...