Socket 939 Sempron found........

[SlitheryDee]

Doesn't seem like anything interesting is going to happen from here on out.

How long till the test is over? I want to hear THGs take on all this.

 

[porkster]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA if it was it'd be like a Pentium D 3.2 vs a 4400+ comparing multitasking scenarios, this is a stability test and the Intel system definitely made itself look poorly by burning through 5 mobo's and having to remove SLi because of heat issues...

If it is solely a stress test then there is no need to display application loop results.

Some facts...

* To run a stress test, you need to have both systems setup correctly before starting a test. THG has not pre tested the systems before the duration testing! Now we find out THG failed to put the correct fan on the P4 system and also they have failed to use new thermal pads each time they moved the heatsink on the P4 heatsink.

* There is a sign the AMD is having problems with multitasking. The AMD X2 is giving too low a priority on the divx thread. Both systems have same OS settings and OS priorities.

There are two scenarios on this, either the AMD is faulty in its ability to delegate thread load or the Intel is over doing an IDLE level of priority in Windows OS.

There should be warning signals being sent out about this issue of AMD?s multitasking. We can hope now that someone else will test the multitasking out of the two systems in a more tougher test.

Tom?s Hardware Guide is not as professional as it was in its debut.

* The loop count on the Farcry time demo is not a valid value to consider when making comparison as both systems are not stopped when an error or reboot is performed on one of the units, making the loop count bias. The FPS on the game are more valid as a sign of multitasking ability.

* The AMD CPU maybe lower wattage, but the system they run in consume more or on par with the test Intel system. So both systems are power burners.

* The AMD fan is very fast and noisy but the Intel new fan on the Intel test system is also a high RPM rate.

* AMD are using savvy at circuitry design but they are using older recipes for silicon, when comparing to Intel. The Intel technology can take higher frequencies and heat, where the AMD is most likely being overclocked and may have little range of being over clocked.

.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: porkster

Originally posted by: DeathBUA if it was it'd be like a Pentium D 3.2 vs a 4400+ comparing multitasking scenarios, this is a stability test and the Intel system definitely made itself look poorly by burning through 5 mobo's and having to remove SLi because of heat issues...

If it is solely a stress test then there is no need to display application loop results.

Some facts...

* To run a stress test, you need to have both systems setup correctly before starting a test. THG has not pre tested the systems before the duration testing! Now we find out THG failed to put the correct fan on the P4 system and also they have failed to use new thermal pads each time they moved the heatsink on the P4 heatsink.

* There is a sign the AMD is having problems with multitasking. The AMD X2 is giving too low a priority on the divx thread. Both systems have same OS settings and OS priorities.

There are two scenarios on this, either the AMD is faulty in its ability to delegate thread load or the Intel is over doing an IDLE level of priority in Windows OS.

There should be warning signals being sent out about this issue of AMD?s multitasking. We can hope now that someone else will test the multitasking out of the two systems in a more tougher test.

Tom?s Hardware Guide is not as professional as it was in its debut.

* The loop count on the Farcry time demo is not a valid value to consider when making comparison as both systems are not stopped when an error or reboot is performed on one of the units, making the loop count bias. The FPS on the game are more valid as a sign of multitasking ability.

* The AMD CPU maybe lower wattage, but the system they run in consume more or on par with the test Intel system. So both systems are power burners.

* The AMD fan is very fast and noisy but the Intel new fan on the Intel test system is also a high RPM rate.

* AMD are using savvy at circuitry design but they are using older recipes for silicon, when comparing to Intel. The Intel technology can take higher frequencies and heat, where the AMD is most likely being overclocked and may have little range of being over clocked.

.

Once again, where did you get this info?

Edit: Nowhere in the updates have I seen anything about the thermal pads.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

I have tried to read through these threads but it is too much, LOL.

Could someone tell why Tom's threw out the original tests. Why didn't they leave the original scores of the AMD and leave the SLI on the AMD once the Intel part proved unstable and had to be switched?

Wouldn't a fair stress test take into account downtime of failed parts? If the AMD SLI worked with no reboots why wasn't it left to face the non SLI Intel? Why were the counters reset to 0?
Shouldn't the AMD scores reflect the uptime performance while the Intel parts were down?

In other words shouldn't the AMD scores from the beginning be used against the Intel after it became stable? Instead of 0 to 0 score shouldn't the AMD still be in SLI and have the scores from the beginning against only the stable recent Intel scores?

 

[SlitheryDee]

This is for you michaelpatrick33.

Originally posted by: Duvie
DUVIES ROUNDUP (6 days completed of the test)


so overall roundup is.....

2 round of test since they threw out AMDs uptime (no reboots form Friday morning to like Tuesday morning).....At that time Intel system had 4-5 reboots.....

now since the start of the second round they have had 3 more reboots and a complete shutdown to switch out parts...

they themselves have gone through 5 mobos....The used Nvidia chipsets for the first 3 but INtel chipsets have been the last 2...one of the Aus mobos would not post anymore and the second one the supposedly stable i955 is responsible for the 3 crashes of the latest round....

The resolution so far has been adding a different (non stock non retail cooler)....It was running at 4400 rpm but in the last 3 hours has mysteriously sped up consistently (and holding) another 200-300rpm and temps are now in the 67 range.....It was flirting with the 70s the first round that had intel machines crashing every 12 hours. When it was swapped to asus intel board in the second round temps were in the high 80's and it was crashing evry 3-4 hours....Now new hsf, lower temps and we see staility...had to be heat in my estimation.....power cap on the epox board for sure though....


INtel will win 2 out of the 4 test if they can stay stable, but I question Toms results since they differ from his first round when before the first rebooting spell of the INtel AMD was solidly leading and pulling away in 3 apps....now since the second round when the INtel chip is stable it will always be gaining in 2...now platform changes can account for this but not to the precentages of change...i smell a rat. I have said 4-5 days ago problem with Toms reviews is they differ from other repuable sites and they can never seeme to be reproduced...apparently even by him.....


I would like to see someone known to do QUALITY reviews, and seen as a bit un-bias in the past to rerun a review like this to see if numbers conincide.....Maybe INtel still win 2 out of the 4 but I wonder more about the percentage of each...


BOTTOM LINE:

AMD system has been up 140+ hours (no reboots)

INtel system has been up 130+ hours (8 reboots at least) ( 5 mobo changes)


I think that sums up the stress test portion of it....


UPDATE:

Also now that the iNtel is running an upgraded fan (non retail, non stock) in the same rpm range of the AMD and noticeably larger in diameter so meaning it is likely pushing more cfm, I wonder what an AMD aftermarket 80mm fan like even my Venus 12 would do...I bet I dont even hit 50c under load. A nice copper core hsf with an 80mm-90mm fan like many use and this thing is mid to upper 40's at stock vcore and stock speed....That would meean it is almost 20c better then the Intel system....

Currently AMD system on average is 12c cooler but using a stock cooler.....

This is for you michaelpatrick33.

 

[porkster]

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33Wouldn't a fair stress test take into account downtime of failed parts?

I agree, but the starting line isn't fair anyway. AMD boards have been out for sometime when you compare them with just hitting i955x based boards. Also Tom didn't get the Intel system setup properly before the test.

The analogy is like having a race between a existing track winner and a car just rebuilt from spare parts.

Tom Hardware crew failed to test the systems out before the stress test race. They are real lamers.

.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

Originally posted by: porkster

Originally posted by: DeathBUA if it was it'd be like a Pentium D 3.2 vs a 4400+ comparing multitasking scenarios, this is a stability test and the Intel system definitely made itself look poorly by burning through 5 mobo's and having to remove SLi because of heat issues...

If it is solely a stress test then there is no need to display application loop results.

Some facts...

* To run a stress test, you need to have both systems setup correctly before starting a test. THG has not pre tested the systems before the duration testing! Now we find out THG failed to put the correct fan on the P4 system and also they have failed to use new thermal pads each time they moved the heatsink on the P4 heatsink.

* There is a sign the AMD is having problems with multitasking. The AMD X2 is giving too low a priority on the divx thread. Both systems have same OS settings and OS priorities.

There are two scenarios on this, either the AMD is faulty in its ability to delegate thread load or the Intel is over doing an IDLE level of priority in Windows OS.

There should be warning signals being sent out about this issue of AMD?s multitasking. We can hope now that someone else will test the multitasking out of the two systems in a more tougher test.

Tom?s Hardware Guide is not as professional as it was in its debut.

* The loop count on the Farcry time demo is not a valid value to consider when making comparison as both systems are not stopped when an error or reboot is performed on one of the units, making the loop count bias. The FPS on the game are more valid as a sign of multitasking ability.

* The AMD CPU maybe lower wattage, but the system they run in consume more or on par with the test Intel system. So both systems are power burners.

* The AMD fan is very fast and noisy but the Intel new fan on the Intel test system is also a high RPM rate.

* AMD are using savvy at circuitry design but they are using older recipes for silicon, when comparing to Intel. The Intel technology can take higher frequencies and heat, where the AMD is most likely being overclocked and may have little range of being over clocked.



.

What in the world are you talking about in the bolded sections? The Intel system load wattage is astronomical compared to the X2 system. Look at every dualcore review on the web and you will see consistent 100watt plus differences between the two platforms Also the architectural differences between the AMD and Intel desktop processors make the second bolded statement ridiculous. The AMD part overclocked? What? Other review sites have done 5 and 6 and 7 application multitask tests (including Anandtech) and showed the PIV to win but not by more than 5%.

Edit: Older silicon? You mean like the integrated memory controller? DDR 1? Overclocking is definitely equal between the two platforms. It takes 300-350mghrtz PIV overclock to match the 200mghrtz overclock of the AMD64.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

Originally posted by: porkster

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33Wouldn't a fair stress test take into account downtime of failed parts?

I agree, but the starting line isn't fair anyway. AMD boards have been out for sometime when you compare them with just hitting i955x based boards. Also Tom didn't get the Intel system setup properly before the test.

The analogy is like having a race between a existing track winner and a car just rebuilt from spare parts.

Tom Hardware crew failed to test the systems out before the stress test race. They are real lamers.

.

Again, I don't understand. The ability to use the existing 939 boards is a feature for dualcore. 955 boards are available in retail so I should not expect quality in retail because it is new? If that is true, shouldn't INtel have not released dualcore parts until dualcore capable motherboards could handle them properly in retail?

 

[porkster]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDeeOnce again, where did you get this info?.

More or less they said in their forums that it wasn't a valid point to replace the thermal pad or use thermal paste.

Mind you they were moving the P4 fan every few hours due to their mistake of using the wrong fan and over heating issues. I guess it's hard to setup a system correctly when you are lucky dipping into a large box of system items, unorganised, before building the system.

.

 

[porkster]

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33Again, I don't understand. The ability to use the existing 939 boards is a feature for dualcore. 955 boards are available in retail so I should not expect quality in retail because it is new?

But, you can agree that every new board has a future of new bios revisions as they discover problems and mistakes. Every motherboard get improvements overtime after a release. The AMD boards have been out for over three months and are designed around boards been out for a year or more.

.

 

[porkster]

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33Edit: Older silicon? You mean like the integrated memory controller? DDR 1? Overclocking is definitely equal between the two platforms. It takes 300-350mghrtz PIV overclock to match the 200mghrtz overclock of the AMD64.

AMD are behind in silicon and other materials/chemistry used for circuits when compared to Intel, but AMD make up for it in good circuit design.

The AMD CPU's maybe hitting the limited of their medium so the X2 maybe a poor overclock?er (guessing) without a far greater cooling solution. The Intel wont take as much cooling to get a higher results. Note, there is little reason to clock higher when you compare the power bill and cooling answers needed to run.

.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

Originally posted by: porkster

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33Again, I don't understand. The ability to use the existing 939 boards is a feature for dualcore. 955 boards are available in retail so I should not expect quality in retail because it is new?

But, you can agree that every new board has a future of new bios revisions as they discover problems and mistakes. Every motherboard get improvements overtime after a release. The AMD boards have been out for over three months and are designed around boards been out for a year or more.

.

That still doesn't take into account the higher wattage (100+) or the fact that a retail board specifically designed to run a dualcore processor should run dualcore processors error free out of the box on a retail part. If the situation were reversed I would be the first to question AMD and its partners about why their retail boards don't. (Like the Via KT890's not running dualcore). Intel 955X retail boards having problems running retail Intel dualcore is definitely a large issue for a current stress test.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

Originally posted by: porkster

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33Edit: Older silicon? You mean like the integrated memory controller? DDR 1? Overclocking is definitely equal between the two platforms. It takes 300-350mghrtz PIV overclock to match the 200mghrtz overclock of the AMD64.

AMD are behind in silicon and other materials/chemistry used for circuits when compared to Intel, but AMD make up for it in good circuit design.

The AMD CPU's maybe hitting the limited of their medium so the X2 maybe a poor overclock?er (guessing) without a far greater cooling solution. The Intel wont take as much cooling to get a higher results. Note, there is little reason to clock higher when you compare the power bill and cooling answers needed to run.

.

I saw a dualcore 2.4 hit 2.58 on normal air cooling at stock voltage on a website (and that was the lowest). That equates to 200-300 on the PIV. The AMD processors run much cooler and use less watts per equal Intel part. That would tend to suggest the AMD parts will overclock better than the corresponding Intel parts. We will have to wait and see as more people have dualcores from both Intel and AMD to see though. Remember, the 2400mghrtz AMD is approximately equivalent to a 3.6 Intel part (single core). Some things faster, some slower of course. Since Intel is not moving over 3.8, AMD would only have to get to 2.6 (FX-55) to match the fastest single core Intel (3.74 EE) and the upcoming FX-57 at 2.8 will pull ahead more. X2 speed bumps will equate to 1 1/2 Pentium D jumps

 

[PetNorth]

oooohhhhh here he is, the indescribable Porkster!!!! flooding this one too!!!!!! go away troll!!!!!!

Guys, read and laugh (by Porkster):

http://www.community.tomshardware.com/f...mber=569253&page=4&view=collapsed&sb=5

http://www.community.tomshardware.com/f...mber=569349&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5

http://www.community.tomshardware.com/f...mber=570108&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5

http://www.community.tomshardware.com/f...mber=570102&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5

 

[GuitarDaddy]

THG has "butchered" this test so bad, I'm starting to think it really shows us nothing about either platform. This test was obviously designed to show Intel in a favorable light, they compare an AMD 2 core chip, to an Intel chip with 4 virtual cores in apps that are optimized for HT I agree with Duvie, in that if the test were performed properly on stable systems, Intel should have won 3 out of 4. But THG's total lack of testing and proper setup on the Intel system has made the Intel system look bad, probably much worse than it actually is. Bottom line is the whole test is total gargage at this point.

I would like to see this type test performed properly with several different scenarios, like
multitasking tests with 2apps, 3apps, and 4apps, and use a mix of HT enabled apps and single threaded apps.

 

[porkster]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
THG has "butchered" this test so bad...

Tom is most likely not even doing the tests, it's probably his groupies.

All the pre-cautions required for a proper test have been ignored and also there have been so many stuff ups that the test needs a new beginning or another site to redo the tests where THG have failed.

.

 

[TGS]

Originally posted by: Porkster

Sorry, but you are overlooking the fact that AMD is already incorporating a fan running at crazy speeds of 6000RPM. There aren't too many fans that go over that speed that are anything that are acceptable for noise and efficiency

Why are people so blinded regarding AMD. This fan issue is clearly a risk for those in professional business. I would sack IT staff if they purchased these AMD systems for critical type applications.

Wow, Obviously you have never stepped foot in a data center. I would venture that in a data center more than 85% of the noise is generated by *Dramatic music* the cooling systems. Just wow here. We have a department on site that uses 4-48U racks filled with dual opteron 1U servers. The make no more noise than anything else, at least that can be heard over the cooling systems. The racks are located 3 in one row, and 1 in another. According to Porkster I should have my hearing blown out when I step into the data center...


Obviously Porkster does not work in the IT field, and is obviously not a manager. I pray for others if he is.


For all those who wanted to see 4+ thread testing. cache and normal link.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: PetNorth
oooohhhhh here he is, the indescribable Porkster!!!! flooding this one too!!!!!! go away troll!!!!!!

Guys, read and laugh (by Porkster):

http://www.community.tomshardware.com/f...mber=569253&page=4&view=collapsed&sb=5

http://www.community.tomshardware.com/f...mber=569349&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5

http://www.community.tomshardware.com/f...mber=570108&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5

http://www.community.tomshardware.com/f...mber=570102&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5

He also just joined the firing squad forums ( he is up to 8 posts now) and spreading his X2 is faulty FUD.

http://forums.firingsquad.com/firingsqu...age?board.id=hardware&message.id=35739

 

[porkster]

Originally posted by: TGS

Originally posted by: PorksterObviously Porkster does not work in the IT field, and is obviously not a manager. I pray for others if he is.

Some people will buy these CPU's for their desktop.

Also the faster the fan the higher the pitch is!

.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: TGS

Originally posted by: Porkster

Sorry, but you are overlooking the fact that AMD is already incorporating a fan running at crazy speeds of 6000RPM. There aren't too many fans that go over that speed that are anything that are acceptable for noise and efficiency

Why are people so blinded regarding AMD. This fan issue is clearly a risk for those in professional business. I would sack IT staff if they purchased these AMD systems for critical type applications.

Wow, Obviously you have never stepped foot in a data center. I would venture that in a data center more than 85% of the noise is generated by *Dramatic music* the cooling systems. Just wow here. We have a department on site that uses 4-48U racks filled with dual opteron 1U servers. The make no more noise than anything else, at least that can be heard over the cooling systems. The racks are located 3 in one row, and 1 in another. According to Porkster I should have my hearing blown out when I step into the data center...


Obviously Porkster does not work in the IT field, and is obviously not a manager. I pray for others if he is.


For all those who wanted to see 4+ thread testing. cache and normal link.

Just Like I said earlier.. When you get into 4+ heavy duty tasks the EE P4D takes over. HT showing it worth again... too bad they crippled the regular 840.

 

[porkster]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003...spreading his X2 is faulty FUD

Disprove the claims I make.

Also can you please not quote full posts. cut the quotes down to what is relevant.

.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: porkster

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003...spreading his X2 is faulty FUD

Disprove the claims I make.

Also can you please not quote full posts. cut the quotes down to what is relevant.

.

First of all, the fan on the AMD system has reached a maximum of 4821 (four thousand eight hundred and twenty one) rpm's in the last 49 hours. What orifice did you pull 6000 out of?
Next. If this was purely a stability test (which it isn't) then why did THG choose to run 4 threads instead of two? I will have to agree that THG actually seemed to go out of there way to make Intel shine a little brighter. Why not a Pentium D840 non HT against the X2 running these 4 apps? That would be an even playing fields no matter how many threads are run.
For whatever reason, you have gone above and beyond the call of duty to your Intel brethren. You have registered as a new member of at least 2 fourms (that I know of are Toms, and Firing Squad) to spread this garbage.

You may actually be the original fanboy because you certainly don't want to hear any logical opinions about what is going on here.

Adjust your sound card properties. It seems Line-out is working just fine. It's Line-In that your having the problem with.

 

[PetNorth]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: PetNorth
oooohhhhh here he is, the indescribable Porkster!!!! flooding this one too!!!!!! go away troll!!!!!!

Guys, read and laugh (by Porkster):

http://www.community.tomshardware.com/f...mber=569253&page=4&view=collapsed&sb=5

http://www.community.tomshardware.com/f...mber=569349&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5

http://www.community.tomshardware.com/f...mber=570108&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5

http://www.community.tomshardware.com/f...mber=570102&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5

He also just joined the firing squad forums ( he is up to 8 posts now) and spreading his X2 is faulty FUD.

http://forums.firingsquad.com/firingsqu...age?board.id=hardware&message.id=35739

yeah... well... simply let's ignore him and he will go away. Don't waste our time with this type of nonsense individuals...

 

[TGS]

Originally posted by: porkster

Originally posted by: TGS

Originally posted by: PorksterObviously Porkster does not work in the IT field, and is obviously not a manager. I pray for others if he is.

Some people will buy these CPU's for their desktop.

Also the faster the fan the higher the pitch is!

.

Then again bolded for emphasis...

Sorry, but you are overlooking the fact that AMD is already incorporating a fan running at crazy speeds of 6000RPM. There aren't too many fans that go over that speed that are anything that are acceptable for noise and efficiency

Why are people so blinded regarding AMD. This fan issue is clearly a risk for those in professional business. I would sack IT staff if they purchased these AMD systems for critical type applications.

Again you have no idea what a business critical server, yes server looks like. Rack mount servers or blade servers are what business critical applications on run on. I have yet to see any business critical applications run on a desktop machine...

So can you stop with trying to pretend you know anything about Data Centers and IT in general...

 

[The Pentium Guy]

Funny quote by porkster:

P4Man (aka AMDman) can you please stop abusing the code of conduct on these foruns.