Socket 939 Sempron found........

Page 15 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
71
Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33
Originally posted by: cscpianoman
Porkster, you are quite correct that THG has set all the priority settings the same and started the programs in similar fashion. What you fail to realize, this is your downfall, is that priority setting are encompassed in the operating system. Hence the name "operating system." Let me walk this through with you. A processor is just what the name implies it processes or crunches numbers. The operating system sits on top of the processor and feeds the processor the information it needs to crunch. Any threads sent is the responsibility of the OS, not the processor. This can be amply verified through several methods. One, take a look at microsofts website and data sheets. The information is there, do your research. Two, there is a method of changing priorities in the task manager. Change the priority and the task will either be given preference or denied. However, this is a direct setting adjusting the operating system, not the processor.
Now I come to the current test. Intel is walking away with Divx, why? According to the OS there is 4 processing units running all the threads given them. There are four applications. Essentially, the OS is capable of giving the Divx thread to a "processor" because there is one availble. Let's now turn to the AMD processor. According to the Windows OS, there are two processors. Ahh, here we have an issue, because there are four applications. The operating system next takes a look at what has the highest priority and sends this task to a processor, same goes for the second thread. The third thread is stuck in limbo waiting for a process to finish, or if two threads have equal priority they will be switched back and forth allowing for an equal chance of processing. Now we come to the stickler, the fourth thread. We have already come to the conclusion through numerous posts that Divx is given a lower priority and that THG did nothing to change those settings. This lower priority setting is viewed, "by the OS," as being less important than the other three. Hence the OS doesn't send the thread unless there is room for it to fit. The processors, however, are running at capacity, ie 100%. There is no room to fit this extra thread, except at times when the loops break. This explains the reason why the AMD processor is "avoiding" the Divx thread because the OS isn't sending it. Now my speculation would be that if the priorities were equiliberated we would see a more equal result among all threads and processors.
I have layed all this out in very simple terms and from information gleaned from various sites including THG and Microsoft. I don't want your opinion, I already know what it is. This is for your information and to come to a more knowledgable understanding that when comparing AMD and Intel they both have their strengths and weaknesses. I am not trying to favor one or the other. This test demonstrates that Intel is very capable of doing four tasks at different priority levels, while the AMD processor focuses on three dissimliar priority tasks. I will address the other concern about wattage and energy efficiency later.


Oh Rational God of Common Sense I bow to Thee. Great post. Do you think this exposes the weakness of Windows scheduler for AMD and dual processes or is something else going on?



genius post...well said...i mentioned it above but stupid arses like Porkster want to spread thier FUD...I have been saying this for about 4 days now fighting with the other resident idiots......

Fact of the matter is the P4 EE ios going to perform 4 task better no matter what the priority oif the Divx was set at...if it was a normal setting it would have stolen cpu cycles from the other three apps...IMO Intel in the end would have likely had leads in 3 out of the 4 test with maybe one or two close but Intel leads.....

HT is a power full tool...remember in the test the X2 4800+ only kicked the arse of the EE version in some test by 18% or less....Those test usually where the old Intel strong hold of encoding...HT in the past as shown its worth quite well and to the tune of 20%+ in some apps so HT in mutliple apps (especially stronghold areas of encoding and multimedia) can overtcome those single task beatings to win in some areas.....



 

Nanobaud

Member
Dec 9, 2004
144
0
0
For a preliminary indicator of what will happen without HT, look at the graph about 80% down in this review

Digit-Life

Showing performance of Far Cry with different numbers of other tasks on single and dual core CPU's with and without HT.

It's not a complete picture, since we don't see the performance of the other apps, But it does indicate that priorities on a dual-core, non-HT Intel behave more like on an AMD X2 than like on a HT Intel

nBd
 

Avalon

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2001
7,571
178
106
I wonder how I missed this little thread for so long :p

Seems like they should also try doing a mini test of only 2-3 CPU intensive apps, just to see if the HT is really giving Intel all the pizzazz.
 

kitkat22

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2005
1,464
1,333
136
Nanobaud, that is an extremely helpful graph in proving the point. Duvie, I didn't realize you had already posted something similar, I haven't read through all the threads, so I apologize if I stole some thunder.
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
71
Originally posted by: Duvie
..................CD's .............RAR...............FC.............DIVX

AMD...........154.................1272............756..............40
Intel............143................769...............523............680
difference....-11..................-503.............-233...........+640

..................CD's .............RAR...............FC.............DIVX

AMD...........194.................1593............955..............40
Intel............192................1037...............672............900
difference....-2..................-556.............-283...........+860
.........gained 9..........lost 53..........lost 50.........gained 220

As of 19:36 hours of uptime......


..................CD's .............RAR...............FC.............DIVX

AMD...........200.................1648...........988..............40
Intel............200................1082...............697............930
difference....0..................-566.............-291...........+890
.........gained 2..........lost 13..........lost 8.........gained 30

As of 21:00 hours of uptime....

so Intel is gaining 2 cds per 1-1/2 hrs.....In 24 hours from now it will have 32 more cds done ...(edited cause my math was off)

IN winrar it will have ~208 less packed archives then now for about a 40.3% deficit

IN Farcry it will have ~128 less runs then now for about a 38.1% deficit...fps are a 33% deficit, so the rest is likely do to the Intel downtime

the Divx will just contiunue to run at a 250:10 pace


Well lets see how the pace is going...did it speed up or slow since last look...for me i has been 11:45 hours...so I was expecting the Intel cpu to have at this point 2 per 1-1/2 hours for a lead now of 16 but yet it only has a lead of 9...so the pace appeared to slow a bit....Did it raise elswehere???


..................CD's .............RAR...............FC.............DIVX

AMD...........200.................1648...........988..............40
Intel............200................1082...............697............930
difference....0..................-566.............-291...........+890

at 21:00 uptime for INtel

..................CD's .............RAR...............FC.............DIVX

AMD...........262.................2050...........1227..............60
Intel............253................1422..............881............1210
difference....+9..................-628.............-346...........+1150
..............gained 9............lost 62.........lost 55..........gained 260

notice how caculated winrar should have been 104 in 12 hour day yet only 62 of that was realized...HMMMM....interestng how HT seems to refocus its efforts elsewhere no consistency...It is like it knows it has the lead in cd encoding ad puts it efforst elsewhere.....Gaming was estimated to be 64 more down and is clse to that at 55.....I dont know if Ht is that intuitive, sporadic or what but its inetersting nonetheless at its randomness....

DIVX is running more like a 200:10 pace now....

overall current lead by percantage

.................CD's .............RAR...............FC.............DIVX

...........INT 3.6%.........AMD 44.2%.....AMD 39.3%.......INT 2016%

 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
71
Originally posted by: cscpianoman
Nanobaud, that is an extremely helpful graph in proving the point. Duvie, I didn't realize you had already posted something similar, I haven't read through all the threads, so I apologize if I stole some thunder.



I did say it in passing quite a few times...Yours is a more thorough discussion of it and stated better....
 

porkster

Member
Mar 31, 2004
141
0
0
Originally posted by: Duvie...........INT 3.6%.........AMD 44.2%.....AMD FC 39.3%.......INT 2016%

Are your calculations based on the FPS for Farcry or the loop count on the timedemo, which is in error?

Not sure if you noticed but THG didn't reset the counters when they caused the mistake of making the P4 crash, so the scores are wrong. At the start it was clear the Intel was running ALL 4 tasks better until the 3 crashes.

It should be noted that the running of four tasks is abstract. 4 tasks could be 4 threads of banking transaction processing or 4 threads of web services or database access, etc. having thread pushed to the sidelines is not excusable.

.
 
S

SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: porkster
Originally posted by: Duvie...........INT 3.6%.........AMD 44.2%.....AMD FC 39.3%.......INT 2016%

Are your calculations based on the FPS for Farcry or the loop count on the timedemo, which is in error?

Not sure if you noticed but THG didn't reset the counters when they caused the mistake of making the P4 crash, so the scores are wrong. At the start it was clear the Intel was running ALL 4 tasks better until the 3 crashes.

It should be noted that the running of four tasks is abstract. 4 tasks could be 4 threads of banking transaction processing or 4 threads of web services or database access, etc. having thread pushed to the sidelines is not excusable.

.

LMAO :p

Edit: Since we're all clear on how it had nothing to do with the processor... :confused:
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
71
Originally posted by: porkster
Originally posted by: Duvie...........INT 3.6%.........AMD 44.2%.....AMD FC 39.3%.......INT 2016%

Are your calculations based on the FPS for Farcry or the loop count on the timedemo, which is in error?

Not sure if you noticed but THG didn't reset the counters when they caused the mistake of making the P4 crash, so the scores are wrong. At the start it was clear the Intel was running ALL 4 tasks better until the 3 crashes.

It should be noted that the running of four tasks is abstract. 4 tasks could be 4 threads of banking transaction processing or 4 threads of web services or database access, etc. having thread pushed to the sidelines is not excusable.

.


I based it on loops and since the 2nd round nothing has been reset....I have watche dit...Secondly the interesting fact is upon restarts the 1st time and the 4th time after the latest round of crashes Farcry starts at 36fps for some reason and holds there for a bit then drops to 27fps as we see now where it has been for about 28 hours...

trust me buddy I have watched the numbers and naalysed them far more then you....


Without restart INtels wins 2 out out of the 4...cd encoding by about a 7-10% range, and Divx by an astronomical range

AMD wins winrar by about a 33% range and AMD wins FC by 33% since fps usually stay 27 to 36....
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
71
Recent changes in score shows that last little burp in the AMD cpu usage allowed INtel to boost score but now with 100% load things will/ should go at similar rate....At this point it is pretty boring....

The only anticpation is 2 things...1) Will the AMD run perfect for the length Toms want to run the test??? 2) Will Intel crash again ???
 

kitkat22

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2005
1,464
1,333
136
I did notice the counters were not reset, but can you post information proving the second statement true or is this another one of your opinions? I would also like to know the technological aspect of why the frame rates signify a greater or mutually exclusive importance compared to the loop count. Otherwise, I would be forced to conclude you are not speaking from experience/knowledge and that you are stating your opinion again.

Now that I have completed dinner, I suppose I should enter into the promised discussion about power and efficiency about both setups. To begin, I would like to point out the discrepancy between the average rates of both fans. It is abundantly clear that the average for the Intel fan is skewed to favor lower rates. There is nothing special behind the reason except the fan prior to the current one was significantly lower than the current one. Upon this recognition we can immediately toss out that data and compare the later portion to the AMD processor and we discover that there is a small, almost insignificant difference between the RPM's between the two fans. This is appropriate because we would like to see direct comparisons between the two processors under similar circumstances. However, now you must compare the average temperatures of both setups and compare the results. Here the discovery can be made that the AMD processor is significantly cooler than the Intel processor. Speculation can be drawn that the Intel processor is spouting more heat than the comparative AMD chip. The statement of why can be determined possibly comparing the two speeds and the conclusion can be made that part of the reason behind the heat is the higher clock frequency. This would help explain why Intel had to start out the dual cores at a slower clock rate. Could you imagine attempting to cool a 3.8GHz Intel processor under similar circumstances? Energy drawn into the computer and as you have so amply put it, "the electric bill," really is a function of all the combined units in the case, from PSU to motherboard, RAM, etc. Being a test of comparisons, I would assume that THG attempted to make all things equal, except the processors and the chipsets. Taking that into account all other numbers can be excluded because they are designed to be similar. There may be an insignificant variation, but it all boils down, again, to the processor and the chipset. This is where the companies numbers can be used, but with a grain of salt. Traditionally the numbers given by Intel and AMD offer different bits of information, either intentionally or not, but the numbers are as given. AMD has stated and can be found in online text to give wattage for the chip at the peak or maximum level, Intel usually gives the average. Once you compare the reported numbers you can see there is a difference, however, again this needs to be taken with a grain of salt unless verified by outside sources. There are several websites that give numbers on the draw of electricity by each of the processors and all of them point to the fact that AMD using not only less, but a lot less compared to Intel. The addition of any chipset numbers to the AMD score would still equate to a significantly smaller number. If you give me enough time I could find the numbers for you, but I won't do what you are quite capable of doing yourself. If you really are that worried about your electric bill at the end of the month you might consider turning off your air conditioner, refrigerator, and install fluorescent bulbs throughout your house.

I failed to mention also the similarity between two the tests and the large difference between the winrar and divx. Could it be possible that the two similar tasks are on one processor and for the other two one of tasks is taking advantage of HT while the other not? When taking this into consideration it sheds light on the fact that scheduling is playing a significant role in this test and because of this the performance numbers have almost entirely no sway. I'm done for the night and homework is calling my name.
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
71
Spoke too soon... The AMD has possibly frozen or Toms network is borking the test...As soon as network activity went down nothing has been getting completed...showing 95-100% usage but nothing has moved in 5-10 minutes while Intel is moving along and gaining big chunks...
 
S

SlitheryDee

Significant dips in cpu load after the network went down as well.

The farcry screenshots still seem to be moving though...
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
I think they are just making all this up anyway. Intel has no network and still posts results somehow. Used to have network. Link


And Porky has'nt been banned yet? Mods must be sleeping.
 

SirPappy

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2002
1,067
0
0
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: porkster
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003...spreading his X2 is faulty FUD

Disprove the claims I make.

Also can you please not quote full posts. cut the quotes down to what is relevant.

.
You may actually be the original fanboy because you certainly don't want to hear any logical opinions about what is going on here.

Adjust your sound card properties. It seems Line-out is working just fine. It's Line-In that your having the problem with.

LOL

 

SirPappy

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2002
1,067
0
0
Originally posted by: mindgam3
"Why are people so blinded regarding AMD. This fan issue is clearly a risk for those in professional business. I would sack IT staff if they purchased these AMD systems for critical type applications. "

Wow your posts are so retarded have you not been following this stress test??? If the intel was running critical type applications they would have been hooped several times over!!! The amd is the one that is stable sheeshh USE YOUR EYES AND BRAIN!!!

I wonder why its all the newbies who are bashing AMD?

gee, you dont think they came here just for that purpose do you? ;)


hmmmm....... :p
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
71
Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
Significant dips in cpu load after the network went down as well.

The farcry screenshots still seem to be moving though...


Trust me it hasn't...I have watched it from the begining and the AMD has been stuck on 1240...It used to have a lead of 348 and now it is 309...Absolutley nothing is getting done...or at least recorded...however I suspect something odd s happening app wise cause for 120 hours of testing AMD cpu chart has been a flat line held at 100% not this flickering stuff.
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
71
I already asked that and Keys seems to think the board may have 2 NICs and the right one may not be chose in the monotiring app....I can buy it....

F'ing Germans should be in that lab in about 2 hours.....Hopefully they will fix it....I think the blurps are the modem keep trying to initialize or something...
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
That intel board could have 50 nics (besides they all have 2) it's does'nt matter.. in web temp you upload the server info into options, it uses the nic connected to decern bandwidth used. I've used this app before.
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
71
Well then there could be an issue...I asked this question early this morning...Thought it was funny they didn't have one, plus the fact it may be a cpu cycle draw on the AMD chip...

Would I be surprised if Toms hijacked the review and lied...NO!!!
 
S

SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: Duvie
Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
Significant dips in cpu load after the network went down as well.

The farcry screenshots still seem to be moving though...


Trust me it hasn't...I have watched it from the begining and the AMD has been stuck on 1240...It used to have a lead of 348 and now it is 309...Absolutley nothing is getting done...or at least recorded...however I suspect something odd s happening app wise cause for 120 hours of testing AMD cpu chart has been a flat line held at 100% not this flickering stuff.


I was talking about this page. The image on the monitor is different on every refresh (except for the weird white box in the middle of each screen).

I assumed that this meant that the farcry bench was still running, although there have been questions about how "live" these pages really are.
 

Continuity27

Senior member
May 26, 2005
516
0
0
Who cares what people like Porkster think? Why bother arguing? Get an X2 and have silent appreciation that your chip can do better in every task and for cheaper than the rest. :thumbsup: Better gaming performance than the rest of the dual core processors, better encoding performance, better stability, better price, etc. Need I say more?