Social Security

[desura]

She did run on the principle of preserving SS-

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/social-security-and-medicare/

Trump's transition team doesn't look promising-



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...y-transition-team_us_5834738ae4b030997bc1606f

He was reassuring on the campaign trail but his choices belie that completely.

Technically, yes. But messaging wise, I never heard it from her. Her message was all about identity politics.

This is why I'm so irritated by these fringe issues: the conversation is zero sum. Every minute talking about gay marriage is a minute not spent talking about budget challenges.

 

[Jhhnn]

Technically, yes. But messaging wise, I never heard it from her. Her message was all about identity politics.

This is why I'm so irritated by these fringe issues: the conversation is zero sum. Every minute talking about gay marriage is a minute not spent talking about budget challenges.

What identity do you speak of? Obviously not the White identity politics of DJT.

 

[theeedude]

Just because you ignored her other message and only focused on identity politics doesn't mean it wasn't there.

 

[desura]

Just because you ignored her other message and only focused on identity politics doesn't mean it wasn't there.

Uh, no. I clearly remember Gore's "lockbox". You can only emphasize one or two things in a message. She chose not to emphasize preserving social security. Have you looked at her intro video announcing her campaign? It very prominently portrays a gay couple, nary anything about social security.

Reason is because rumors were that she would have resurrected the "grand bargain" if she were elected, and so she would have cut social security.

For the rich, social security doesn't matter. Gay marriage does matter to rich donors. D party is the party of the rich.

 

[theeedude]

Uh, no. I clearly remember Gore's "lockbox". You can only emphasize one or two things in a message. She chose not to emphasize preserving social security. Have you looked at her intro video announcing her campaign? It very prominently portrays a gay couple, nary anything about social security.

Reason is because rumors were that she would have resurrected the "grand bargain" if she were elected, and so she would have cut social security.

For the rich, social security doesn't matter. Gay marriage does matter to rich donors. D party is the party of the rich.

It's GOP that's planning to cut SS, not Dems. But because she had a gay couple in video, Republicans voted to voluntarily give up your Social Security. That's how Trump trash gets played by Republicans, all the time. Gave up their middle class prosperity to screw a mythical black welfare queen with a Cadillac. Now giving up Social Security to screw a gay couple. This is why flyover America is now a third world country, because they keep voting to screw themselves.

 

[desura]

It's GOP that's planning to cut SS, not Dems. But because she had a gay couple in video, Republicans voted to voluntarily give up your Social Security. That's how Trump trash gets played by Republicans, all the time. Gave up their middle class prosperity to screw a mythical black welfare queen with a Cadillac. Now giving up Social Security to screw a gay couple. This is why flyover America is now a third world country, because they keep voting to screw themselves.

No crap. Did you read my post? It was HIllary's failing that she didn't emphasize this portion of her message enough. IT was her responsibility. This reflected her own priorities the message she pursued.

 

[Jhhnn]

Uh, no. I clearly remember Gore's "lockbox". You can only emphasize one or two things in a message. She chose not to emphasize preserving social security. Have you looked at her intro video announcing her campaign? It very prominently portrays a gay couple, nary anything about social security.

Reason is because rumors were that she would have resurrected the "grand bargain" if she were elected, and so she would have cut social security.

For the rich, social security doesn't matter. Gay marriage does matter to rich donors. D party is the party of the rich.

More "gay agenda" distractional bullshit. It's not like Dem donors are more likely to be gay than anybody else.

 

[desura]

More "gay agenda" distractional bullshit. It's not like Dem donors are more likely to be gay than anybody else.

There is research showing that religiously conservative voters went for Trump higher than they did for Romney. Romney, who is a very decent and moral man. Reason? Because D culture war. Hillary didn't even bother talking to the religious right. Obama reached out more to the religious right than Hillary did.

I get that you're a true believer, and are intent on staying in the echo chamber. Well, I'm just saying, Democrats have gone far off-course with mistaken assumptions. They're screwed over the long-term.

 

[theeedude]

No crap. Did you read my post? It was HIllary's failing that she didn't emphasize this portion of her message enough. IT was her responsibility. This reflected her own priorities the message she pursued.

It's the voters responsibility to be informed, the candidate can't force them to know something they refuse to care about. Her policies were on her website for everyone to read.

 

[desura]

It's the voters responsibility to be informed, the candidate can't force them to know something they refuse to care about. Her policies were on her website for everyone to read.

No. Hillary is the professional politician. I'm talking as a loyal D voter here...I'm really sick of the identity fringe issues emphasis. And like the loudest most insistent voices are just pulling the D party more to these fringe issues. Just look at Vox.com and all of the shit-libbery over there.

 

[theeedude]

No. Hillary is the professional politician. I'm talking as a loyal D voter here...I'm really sick of the identity fringe issues emphasis. And like the loudest most insistent voices are just pulling the D party more to these fringe issues. Just look at Vox.com and all of the shit-libbery over there.

Ultimate responsibility is with the voters, they are the ones who have the power to decide and have to live with their choices. Gay rights is not a fringe issue, but even if it was, giving up your own Social Security because you don't like gay rights is pretty stupid.

 

[desura]

Ultimate responsibility is with the voters, they are the ones who have the power to decide and have to live with their choices. Gay rights is not a fringe issue, but even if it was, giving up your own Social Security because you don't like gay rights is pretty stupid.

Did you read my post? Hillary probably was planning on cutting social security anyways. She isn't emotionally attached to SS...because all of her friends are rich wealthy types. She was emotionally connected to gay marriage, likely by knowing people, and islam. In other words, she really did believe what her campaign talked about.

 

[theeedude]

Did you read my post? Hillary probably was planning on cutting social security anyways. She isn't emotionally attached to SS...because all of her friends are rich wealthy types. She was emotionally connected to gay marriage, likely by knowing people, and islam. In other words, she really did believe what her campaign talked about.

Yes, gay marriage, and Islam, obviously the two things she was "emotionally connected" to. Because they go together like peanut butter and jelly.

 

[Jaskalas]

Taking 6.2% of someone's income,

Is called taxation. Around here sales tax is 9%.
The idea that social security is a pension for retirement is outdated.

 

[desura]

Yes, gay marriage, and Islam, obviously the two things she was "emotionally connected" to. Because they go together like peanut butter and jelly.

They do. But she has a fantasy understanding of both, because the people she knows personally are all versions of the progressive utopia that she thinks her policies lead towards. When people know other people personally, it changes their objective perceptions.

 

[Jhhnn]

Did you read my post? Hillary probably was planning on cutting social security anyways. She isn't emotionally attached to SS...because all of her friends are rich wealthy types. She was emotionally connected to gay marriage, likely by knowing people, and islam. In other words, she really did believe what her campaign talked about.

Is called taxation. Around here sales tax is 9%.
The idea that social security is a pension for retirement is outdated.

Tell it to the millions of people receiving benefits.

 

[Jhhnn]

There is research showing that religiously conservative voters went for Trump higher than they did for Romney. Romney, who is a very decent and moral man. Reason? Because D culture war. Hillary didn't even bother talking to the religious right. Obama reached out more to the religious right than Hillary did.

I get that you're a true believer, and are intent on staying in the echo chamber. Well, I'm just saying, Democrats have gone far off-course with mistaken assumptions. They're screwed over the long-term.

And I get that you're a concern troll trying to divert from the topic at hand which has nothing to do with gays or Muslims.

Given our way, Dems would remove the cap & probably want a piece of investment income as well. Like Clinton offered, we'll go where the money is.

SS has been an enormously successful program for millions of people & we'll do what it takes to keep it that way if we can.

I don't think Trump & his advisors, let alone a Repub congress, see it that way at all. His transition team indicates exactly the opposite.

 

[Svnla]

Is called taxation. Around here sales tax is 9%.
The idea that social security is a pension for retirement is outdated.

Friends in Louisiana say their sale taxes are up to 10% (state plus local) and they will have to pay sale tax on Amazon purchases after the first of next year. Other places in other states such as Chicago are even higher = http://taxfoundation.org/blog/chicago-adopts-highest-sales-tax-among-major-cities

 

[IronWing]

Friends in Louisiana say their sale taxes are up to 10% (state plus local) and they will have to pay sale tax on Amazon purchases after the first of next year. Other places in other states such as Chicago are even higher = http://taxfoundation.org/blog/chicago-adopts-highest-sales-tax-among-major-cities

Yep, regressive taxes on the masses are on the rise as the wealthy guard their tax shelters and billionaire tax rates.

 

[desura]

And I get that you're a concern troll trying to divert from the topic at hand which has nothing to do with gays or Muslims.

Given our way, Dems would remove the cap & probably want a piece of investment income as well. Like Clinton offered, we'll go where the money is.

SS has been an enormously successful program for millions of people & we'll do what it takes to keep it that way if we can.

I don't think Trump & his advisors, let alone a Repub congress, see it that way at all. His transition team indicates exactly the opposite.

This is a classic case of triage. You have to make priorities and a clear message. You can't dilute the message with distracting fringe issues.

 

[Jhhnn]

This is a classic case of triage. You have to make priorities and a clear message. You can't dilute the message with distracting fringe issues.

That's been your effort all along, hasn't it? To drag in fringe issues?

SS is a cornerstone of the Democratic Agenda. That message was loud & clear throughout the election. We'd never put up a presidential candidate who said otherwise. The notion is ridiculous.

Trump's transition team has been known to say otherwise, however.

 

[Jaskalas]

Tell it to the millions of people receiving benefits.

Tell them what, that I do not view Social Security as their own private fund? Sure, I would tell them that and more. Trusting that you were paying attention of late, you'd know that I'd take ~$2.6 trillion of our annual budget and provide Social Security to approximately 250 million adult citizens. Just what are you arguing? I'm not sure you said enough to illustrate your point.

Mine is to redefine Social Security into actually providing its namesake.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yep, regressive taxes on the masses are on the rise as the wealthy guard their tax shelters and billionaire tax rates.

Witness Kansas, Louisiana & others, I'm sure. Cut taxes at the top to create a fiscal crisis even when revenues are depressed because of the great recession. Cut govt services & spending while raising sales taxes to cover the gap. If the people will put up with it, then wash, rinse & repeat as many times as possible.

It'll all trickle down, obviously.

 

[Jhhnn]

Tell them what, that I do not view Social Security as their own private fund? Sure, I would tell them that and more. Trusting that you were paying attention of late, you'd know that I'd take ~$2.6 trillion of our annual budget and provide Social Security to approximately 250 million adult citizens. Just what are you arguing? I'm not sure you said enough to illustrate your point.

Mine is to redefine Social Security into actually providing its namesake.

You say SS is outmoded & I point out that it's working as intended. It just needs greater funding. There are a variety of ways to do that.

Invoking your desire for a unicorn doesn't change that, nor does it change a likely attack from Trump & the Repubs. We'll be lucky to come out of this with our hides still attached.

 

[First]

Only some people are really living longer; the poor and lower middle class' life expectancy is about the same as decades ago, while wealthier folk's lifespan has significantly increased. So raising the retirement age is punitive, doesn't make sense.

But unlike a lot of liberals, I'm sure there's a better way to increase the return on SS both for solvency's sake and just for common sense reasons, which would mean developing a better financial product than the special issue treasury bonds used to fund SS, which return 2-3%, while historically you get 2-3 times that amount invested in equity markets. But it doesn't have to be gambled entirely in equity markets, it could be very well balanced risk-wise just like any good ETF-based robo account out there.