Social Security

[IronWing]

show me

no

 

[IronWing]

no

Well, okay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flemming_v._Nestor

https://www.ssa.gov/history/nestor.html

Edited for direct link to case.

 

[JSt0rm]

That was a deported communist. This would be congress pulling the rug out from under millions of people.

 

[IronWing]

That was a deported communist. This would be congress pulling the rug out from under millions of people.

The case established that there is no property right in SS. Congress is free to steal your benefits with no "taking". This is why it is important to keep on Congress' ass to make sure that doesn't happen, like with Johnson's bill.

 

[theeedude]

Another case of Americans screwing themselves to hurt others they don't like more, in that case a Communist.

 

[JSt0rm]

The case established that there is no property right in SS. Congress is free to steal your benefits with no "taking". This is why it is important to keep on Congress' ass to make sure that doesn't happen, like with Johnson's bill.

If you guys revisit abortion then we get to revisit that.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Social security should be a safety net, period. Not a retirement plan. People have to save, and if they are capable of working they should. I have no problem raising the retirement age, and if they simply can't work anymore make exceptions.

We also need to get the population healthier. Tax unhealthy foods, don't let food stamps buy cookies, incentivize preventive care rather than fixing the problems after they occur. If our nation got off their lazy asses and did a bit of exercise we'd be financially much better off. Harsh but true.

 

[JSt0rm]

Social security should be a safety net, period. Not a retirement plan. People have to save, and if they are capable of working they should. I have no problem raising the retirement age, and if they simply can't work anymore make exceptions.

We also need to get the population healthier. Tax unhealthy foods, don't let food stamps buy cookies, incentivize preventive care rather than fixing the problems after they occur. If our nation got off their lazy asses and did a bit of exercise we'd be financially much better off. Harsh but true.

So pie in the sky

 

[UglyCasanova]

So pie in the sky

How so?

 

[IronWing]

If you guys revisit abortion then we get to revisit that.

You guys?

 

[IronWing]

Social security should be a safety net, period. Not a retirement plan. People have to save, and if they are capable of working they should. I have no problem raising the retirement age, and if they simply can't work anymore make exceptions.

Sounds completely doable if we raise the minimum wage to a living wage including overhead to allow savings. Otherwise, it's a "let them eat cake" plan.

 

[K1052]

incentivize preventive care rather than fixing the problems after they occur.

So....Obamacare?

We will never see true preventative care for the whole country without some sort of massively socialized care regime like the public option for all.

 

[fskimospy]

Social security should be a safety net, period. Not a retirement plan. People have to save, and if they are capable of working they should. I have no problem raising the retirement age, and if they simply can't work anymore make exceptions.

We also need to get the population healthier. Tax unhealthy foods, don't let food stamps buy cookies, incentivize preventive care rather than fixing the problems after they occur. If our nation got off their lazy asses and did a bit of exercise we'd be financially much better off. Harsh but true.

Research and experience shows pretty clearly that people don't act this way in reality though. With that in mind what is the solution? Keep demanding that people act in a way that we know they won't or craft policy to account for that?

 

[Cozarkian]

Sounds completely doable if we raise the minimum wage to a living wage including overhead to allow savings. Otherwise, it's a "let them eat cake" plan.

Okay, so what is that? My initial impression would be a living wage is "enough to avoid poverty."

Using that definition, the poverty threshold for an individual is $12,331. You want to add overhead, so let's IP that by 28% (the max recommended loan to income ratio for housing expenses) to $15,783.68. That should cover any overhead, especially once you consider a person making minimum wage should probably have a housemate sharing rent.

Finally, let's make the above post-tax earnings by adding enough to cover 6.2% for social security, 10% for income taxes, and 9.128% for saled tax (the average of the five States with highest combined state + local sales tax). That results in a living wage of $18,640.97, or $10.16/hour.

That is anywhere close to the $15/hour mark that has been thrown around and realistically, the federal minimum wage shouldn't be adjusted based upon the highest tax States, but rather the lowest.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Sounds completely doable if we raise the minimum wage to a living wage including overhead to allow savings. Otherwise, it's a "let them eat cake" plan.

For flipping burgers? What incentive is there for someone to learn a skill/trade then? The wage you're discussing is pretty darn close to a skilled trade. Why lay brick all day in the sun when they can run a drive thru at McD's in the AC? Flipping burgers or running a cash register is a part time job for teenagers or housewives. Its not supposed to be a job to raise a family on. I feel terrible for those that won't do better for themselves, but being a minority and a convicted felon myself they aren't getting too much sympathy from me. I did better. So can they.

 

[Jhhnn]

For flipping burgers? What incentive is there for someone to learn a skill/trade then? The wage you're discussing is pretty darn close to a skilled trade. Why lay brick all day in the sun when they can run a drive thru at McD's in the AC? Flipping burgers or running a cash register is a part time job for teenagers or housewives. Its not supposed to be a job to raise a family on. I feel terrible for those that won't do better for themselves, but being a minority and a convicted felon myself they aren't getting too much sympathy from me. I did better. So can they.

We need to make the jobs we do have into jobs to raise a family, not chase the rainbow of jobs we'd like to have. Congratulations on doing better. That doesn't mean everybody gets to do that.

 

[Ackmed]

We need to make the jobs we do have into jobs to raise a family, not chase the rainbow of jobs we'd like to have. Congratulations on doing better. That doesn't mean everybody gets to do that.

You want every job available, a job that someone can raise a family on? I don't get that. Someone working as a gas station attendant (or similar job) for $7.25 around here, trying to raise a family is going to have a hard time. With I am sure some gov assistance. Raising the wage is not the right thing to do. Working harder at life to get a better job is/was the right thing to do. Glad they're working, but thats it. Everyone "gets to do that" as you said, some people just make poor choices and it makes it harder for them to do that. There is nothing wrong with working at a minimum wage or close to it job, fast food, gas station, etc. Those people are still working and thats awesome. They're paying taxes and are members that contribute to society. That doesn't mean they magically get to make enough to raise two kids on it working a low end job. Life isn't always easy, and is rarely fare. Some people get dealt a shitty hand. Perseverance and working hard are key, not handouts. Not everyone is a winner, not everyone gets a damn participation trophy.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Research and experience shows pretty clearly that people don't act this way in reality though. With that in mind what is the solution? Keep demanding that people act in a way that we know they won't or craft policy to account for that?

Take the every living hell out of unhealthy food. Stop using food for fuel (ethanol). Research shows people do act according to pricing, if the healthy alternative is cheaper they'll gravitate towards that. Right now junk food is cheaper. Food stamps should not be allowed to purchase junk food. Put P.E. back in schools. Fund after school programs that involve physical activity.

 

[K1052]

Take the every living hell out of unhealthy food. Stop using food for fuel (ethanol). Research shows people do act according to pricing, if the healthy alternative is cheaper they'll gravitate towards that. Right now junk food is cheaper. Food stamps should not be allowed to purchase junk food. Put P.E. back in schools. Fund after school programs that involve physical activity.

The ethanol mandate isn't making people fat, regardless of if it is a good idea or not.

 

[Jaskalas]

And you'll get that past the current congress how, exactly?

You don't. But you win future elections by fighting for it. Trump's election is rooted in energizing people who've been screwed over.
You need a message of equal motivation. Especially after he screws them over.

When trickle down is dead and buried, you lead people to the alternative.

 

[theeedude]

Take the every living hell out of unhealthy food. Stop using food for fuel (ethanol). Research shows people do act according to pricing, if the healthy alternative is cheaper they'll gravitate towards that. Right now junk food is cheaper. Food stamps should not be allowed to purchase junk food. Put P.E. back in schools. Fund after school programs that involve physical activity.

Are you Michelle Obama?

 

[Jhhnn]

[

You don't. But you win future elections by fighting for it. Trump's election is rooted in energizing people who've been screwed over.
You need a message of equal motivation. Especially after he screws them over.

When trickle down is dead and buried, you lead people to the alternative.

America had that opportunity in 2008, promptly rejected it in 2010 because there wasn't enough misery to create the necessary epiphany to change the well propagandized way we succumb to wedge issues & our own pride.

There is only one way for the common man to counter the economic power of Wealth & that's through the agency of govt. That's also why Repubs have infected the American psyche with a self defeating disdain for govt & ultimately for democracy itself.

 

[Geekbabe]

I have been forced to pay into social security for my entire working life. I will be 60 soon & have Stage IV cancer. I will most likely work till the day I die because COBRA will cost me 2K per month, which is more than my disability payments would be each month.Without health insurance I die sooner & SSDI won't provide that at age 60.

I have a modest 403B, I paid for short term disability coverage & get long term as a benefit. Yet these people talk as if I was asking to receive welfare when I object to social security cuts?

You force me & every employer I have ever had to pay into this benefit, then it's not an entitlement program & it's not welfare! Good lord, this enrages me!

 

[Mai72]

These types of topics always remind me to take control of my finances, and to stop relying on entitlements. This is why financial education is so important at a young age. It's rarely ever talked about in families today. We should be educating our children on things such as assets vs. liabilities, compound interest, saving money, making Investments for the long term, the stock market, generating passive income, sales, paying yourself first, and so on. Instead, none of this is taught so we have generations of Americans who are financially illiterate. They start blaming everyone but themselves. They also start relying on entitlements to get them thru the later stages of life. Hence, this is why we are seeing issues with social security and Medicade. Way too many people are dependent on these entitlements. SS was never meant to be your sole source of income. If you did it right you should have a mix of passive income, investments and savings. They all work together in unison.

I've had to come to grips with my spending habits. I've since started to pay myself first with the hope that I'll be in a position to make investments that will pay me very well in the future. If SS is there in 30 years then that will be icing on the cake. If it's not, I'll be in a good financial position anyway. Maybe not rich, but I'll have assets that are producing income every month. That's the hope anyway. I look at where I'm at financially every Sunday. I'm always asking myself how can I produce more income. The money is in the economy. There is enough for everyone.

 

[IronWing]

. SS was never meant to be your sole source of income.

Actually, it was. The buying power of SS retirement benefits has been intentionally eroded since the 1970s.