so why is amd allowing intel to release a dual core before them?

dannybin1742

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2002
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topic says it all, why not start releasing the lower clocked DC opterons?

like dual 1.6, 1.8, i'm sure they have fabbed enough of these by not to at least sell them with 512kb cache.

anyone have any thoughts?
 

Mik3y

Banned
Mar 2, 2004
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who says amd's ALLOWING intel to release it before? intel has all the money in the world. it's no wonder they can beat amd in releases, but one thing they cant always beat amd in is performance.
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
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Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
why rush things when you want to get the job done right?



And there explains it in my eyes....Intel doesn't seem to mind getting egg on its face from overzealous launches and pushing a product before all the kinks are worked out....
 

thanatos355

Senior member
Feb 7, 2005
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exactly, anyone remember the 90nm cores?;) intel 'beat' amd to the punch there to. boy was that a sucess. :p
 

jbh129

Senior member
Oct 8, 2004
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You guys are pretty funny. This forum might as well be an AMD forum. Some of Intels new products look a lot more exciting than anything AMD has talked about.
 

ts3433

Platinum Member
Jun 29, 2004
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Originally posted by: jbh129
You guys are pretty funny. This forum might as well be an AMD forum. Some of Intels new products look a lot more exciting than anything AMD has talked about.

If anything, we're pro-performance; we don't cater exclusively to one manufacturer or the other. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Please give us examples to support your idea, though.
 

thanatos355

Senior member
Feb 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: ts3433
Originally posted by: jbh129
You guys are pretty funny. This forum might as well be an AMD forum. Some of Intels new products look a lot more exciting than anything AMD has talked about.

If anything, we're pro-performance; we don't cater exclusively to one manufacturer or the other. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Please give us examples to support your idea, though.


i agree 100%. i've owned both amd and intel products and the amd has always performed better for me. well, my 450 p2 probably was a little more spry then my 500 k6, but still.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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Originally posted by: ts3433
Originally posted by: jbh129
You guys are pretty funny. This forum might as well be an AMD forum. Some of Intels new products look a lot more exciting than anything AMD has talked about.

If anything, we're pro-performance; we don't cater exclusively to one manufacturer or the other. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Please give us examples to support your idea, though.

Exactly, put up or shut up...
 

rgreen83

Senior member
Feb 5, 2003
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AMD forum? no, actually not long ago I remember it being very pro-intel in here, we are just very strongly swayed by the better product at the time. I have an A64 in my desktop because it has the best price/performance, but wouldnt have anything in a notebook except a pentium M (unless turion lives up to the hype), and if intel has the better processor in a year, ill buy from them.

About the dual core situation, AMD has maybe 30% (correct me if someone knows for sure) of intels manufacturing capability. With the dies being twice as large on a dual core, this puts intel even more ahead. The intel chips are not compatible with current boards either, this may make it easier for them to get the chips out sooner (no legacy testing).

The worst thing that scares me about this is I am afraid AMD will only go dual core in the FX line for desktops in 2005, where intel will come out with a somewhat top to bottom line for theres.
 

gobucks

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
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AMD decided a while back to focus its expansion efforts on servers and notebooks. The result of this is that server chips are the first to get the improvements, and my guess is that after turion is launched, it's gonna take the no. 2 spot from the desktop. Anyways, AMD will beat Intel to dual core, but unfortunately for us it'll be 940 only for a while.

Anyways, I don't put much faith in the Pentium D. Prescott is a terrible core, and I think the dual core will run into more issues - in fact, with its huge die size, i think it might even have more problems, at least initially. AMD's 90nm cores are way smaller, so a dual core won't be quite so unwieldly, plus their shared cache won't take up as much space. Other downsides include a lack of the 1066MHz FSB (which should have been made available for non-$1000 chips), separate cache (it's looking like shared cache is more efficient, as it is being used in A64 and in future dual core PMs), and no hyperthreading; the latter means if you are looking for an estimate on performance, you have to scale relative to a non-HT P4.

I do however think Yonah looks promising. Improved FP performance, shared cache, better desktop platform, and, according to the inquirer, 64-bit support with socket 460, all make for the first intel chip i've been seriously contemplating for a long time. Of course, if AMD can keep up, I'll probably still go AMD, since usually I can get more for my money from them, but if Yonah is substantially ahead, then I'll gladly pick one up.
 

bersl2

Golden Member
Aug 2, 2004
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Originally posted by: rgreen83
The worst thing that scares me about this is I am afraid AMD will only go dual core in the FX line for desktops in 2005, where intel will come out with a somewhat top to bottom line for theres.

I seem to be under the impression that the FX series was specifically going to remain single core. It is their high-end enthusiast processor, after all.
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
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AMD said that the FX would still be its main line for gamers...reason?? probably cause they know at time of Dual core release the core will not be as high as 2.6ghz (for either core) and since most games are not SMP aware then there will be no gains for the second core in actual game performance....

It could be 2 2.4ghz cores and it stil could lose to the FX55....I think they will actualy be realesed in the 1.8, 2.0 and 2.2ghz range for dual cores....
 

rgreen83

Senior member
Feb 5, 2003
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Originally posted by: bersl2
Originally posted by: rgreen83
The worst thing that scares me about this is I am afraid AMD will only go dual core in the FX line for desktops in 2005, where intel will come out with a somewhat top to bottom line for theres.

I seem to be under the impression that the FX series was specifically going to remain single core. It is their high-end enthusiast processor, after all.

My interpretation of the official roadmap leads me to believe it will be at the high end first. Notice how the desktop chips go FX, A64, Sempron, top to bottom? now where is the only place on the desktop part that shows dual core? Now maybe they will have 2.8 or 3.0ghz single core FX's also, but I think the dual core cpus may be right there with the FX in price.
 

rgreen83

Senior member
Feb 5, 2003
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Originally posted by: gobucks
AMD decided a while back to focus its expansion efforts on servers and notebooks. The result of this is that server chips are the first to get the improvements, and my guess is that after turion is launched, it's gonna take the no. 2 spot from the desktop. Anyways, AMD will beat Intel to dual core, but unfortunately for us it'll be 940 only for a while.

Anyways, I don't put much faith in the Pentium D. Prescott is a terrible core, and I think the dual core will run into more issues - in fact, with its huge die size, i think it might even have more problems, at least initially. AMD's 90nm cores are way smaller, so a dual core won't be quite so unwieldly, plus their shared cache won't take up as much space. Other downsides include a lack of the 1066MHz FSB (which should have been made available for non-$1000 chips), separate cache (it's looking like shared cache is more efficient, as it is being used in A64 and in future dual core PMs), and no hyperthreading; the latter means if you are looking for an estimate on performance, you have to scale relative to a non-HT P4.

I do however think Yonah looks promising. Improved FP performance, shared cache, better desktop platform, and, according to the inquirer, 64-bit support with socket 460, all make for the first intel chip i've been seriously contemplating for a long time. Of course, if AMD can keep up, I'll probably still go AMD, since usually I can get more for my money from them, but if Yonah is substantially ahead, then I'll gladly pick one up.

No shared cache from amd yet
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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AMD's Hypertransport has already proven to waste Intel's solution at 4x cpu or greater. Dual-core will only enhance that lead. Intel will have to pull a rabbit out of their hat to win with dual-core.....
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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Originally posted by: jbh129
How about this?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=55514

or this?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=55545

or maybe this?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54875

and lastly

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54785

Now I am no fanboy. I own both I am just not very excited about AMD's short term plans.

Those are forum replies. I mean FACTS or reviews or news from reputable sites......
 

BlindBartimaeus

Golden Member
Jun 8, 2002
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I thought I read the dual cores were coming in the 939 flavor NOT 940. I also read...again no link because I didn't think I would be "debating" this, and Intel is working with game developers to starting writing for dual core for some time since that is the way they see the industry going. The way I read it was like past tense meaning they (game developers) have had the heads up for some time. I think more and more games will support dual core.

I think it will be a real boon for single CPU servers for game servers and such. Get an expensive two way system for cheap. Or get a real nice 4 way for not too much more...but I bet those will be more expensive to start.
 

ts3433

Platinum Member
Jun 29, 2004
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Dual cores are coming to 940 first, actually... as said earlier, AMD's targeting servers more than consumer-level desktops at the moment, and that's where dual core would have the most immediate utility. It's 754 that they won't go to.
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,991
627
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The first multi-core releases will feature one die with two CPU cores. Each core has separate L1/L2 cache hierarchies
Taken from AMD's site. Seems kinda vague. "cache hierarchies" could mean seperate cache, or single cache with hierarchy arcitecture to control it.
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
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The nice diagram chart shows it more clearly as separate cache fior each cpu...it does appear there is 1 memory controller to be shared for both cores....Expanded HTT links...
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,928
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Why be worried about AMD's release of dual-core CPUs? I can't fault anyone here for wanting one(or more), but it is wise of AMD to wait until they can "do the job right". It is also wise of them to release dual-core CPUs to the workstation/server market first, as those machines can make better use of multithreaded code than home desktop boxes. Most computer users just don't multitask that heavily, nor do they run a plethora of multithreaded apps. Plenty of people HERE do, yes, but in the general computer-using population, that is not the case. AMD would be crazy to rush desktop dual-core CPUs to the market.

Makes you wonder why Intel is pushing the Pentium D so heavily, other than for the technological "me first".
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Originally posted by: jbh129
You guys are pretty funny. This forum might as well be an AMD forum. Some of Intels new products look a lot more exciting than anything AMD has talked about.

Like what? I'm just curious.

Stuff AMD has had for two years now? Sure AMD is stagnet for awile now but I think you know whos playing catchup.

I'm get a little tired of Intel cry babies saying this should be AMD forum. It's pretty clear who has superior tech. Read any summary of CPU's reviews by any on-line press within the last year..basically meh=intel, and AMD is faster/cooling/cheaper. Should they all change domain to AMDZONE.COM too? ... Those reviews/impressions has a way of translating into enthusiast forums. Don't worry Intel will be back, Intel still makes more money in a day than AMD all year long...Intel is still a great choice.. ..just not as good or even as good as thier 2 year old northwoods which still kick arse:p