Media that people in the middle and the right don't watch like presidential debates? You have to be joking.
No. Even though the debates were record breaking, its still very far away from something like the Super Bowl. Now, I think we had somewhere like 120 million votes, and something like 60-80 million watching the debate. Assuming that huge chunks of the viewers were already on a side, that leaves a lot who did not watch. Guess where they got their ideas of the debate from...
Regardless, now you're contradicting yourself. You complained that liberals only insulted Trump and didn't engage with his policies and now you're saying that although liberals WERE criticizing his policies they needed to make these criticisms in areas where they didn't control what was put out. This is illogical.
No. I said that liberals were not debating ideas, but attacking the person. I also clearly said that those on the right and middle were not watching news. They were getting their ideas from talking to people. Those on the right were going to support trump. Those on the left were not going to support trump. Those on the left made Trump out to be something far worse than what he actually was.
I also did not complain. I said it was what I thought happened to get people to miss that Trump was bad. I said liberals were attacking him and not debating his ideas. You were the one who said they were attacking his ideas and also that he did not have any ideas.
So now your argument is that a 20 minute piece doing exactly what you said wasn't done, criticizing him on the merits of his policy, is proof that people didn't criticize him on the merits of his policies. That is self evidently ridiculous.
Again, I told you that those in the middle and right are not looking to Oliver for information. Oliver has a great show and I enjoy it. He does not have a show that appeals to those in the middle and right as a new source. HBO is not a very conservative network. Stop and think about your stance. All the outlets that were attacking his positions were mainstream media. We both know how republicans feel about that. You are a hard left guy, so you dont see how those in the middle get their information.
Again, I can provide you with reams of criticisms on the merits. You can find them yourself. How much more do you need before you admit you're wrong? Genuine question. Give me a number.
You are asking for a number from something that I have already explained. The question is how did he win. He won because those who wanted change found it in him. They tuned out the opposition voice because that voice exaggerated.
Spy, what do I have to gain by taking this position. Why do you think I am talking to you? Its not because I want to gloat, because I'm unhappy with the outcome. Look at your responses to me vs how I'm talking to you. You are too upset right now to hear me out.
This is again, proveably false. You can even go back and read my posts on the issue. Your attempt to whitewash his statement aside, saying that illegal immigrants from Mexico are rapists is in fact a racist statement.
They are rapists, just as Americans are rapists, and Canadians are rapists. He was not saying all. You only feel that way because you hate him so much. I just dislike him and think he is unfit for the job.
If you genuinely believe that people pointing out Trump's racism from that statement was a negative and that they should have instead been pointing to differential immigrant crime rates please provide me with literally any empirical research or scientific polling that indicates this.
I did at the time actually. Im not going to dig through the forum for this right now, but I did. I told you then that we did not have much data on illegal immigration and crime, but what data we did have from Texas was higher. I also said that its 100% true that legal immigrants commit less crime than avg.
My best friend is Mexican. He hated Trump. When he brought up how Trump thinks all Mexicans are bad, I asked if he had seen the speech or quote. He said no. When I showed it to him, and explained the data, he still did not like that Trump was talking out of his ass, but even he could admit that it alone did not show he was racist.
Right, but anecdotal evidence is almost meaningless. You're basically ignoring the data stating you in the face.
What data. You have news articles and videos from sources that the Right was never going to watch, and that many in the middle consider biased. Again, you are not in the middle so you dont see how they gather information. Its not by watching fox news or any other single media outlet. They get it by talking.
I strongly encourage you to do more research on independents. Most self identified independents are actually closet partisans and they lean disproportionately conservative. You're chasing a red herring.
Then your stance is that American is mainly conservative. Thus, you have your answer. Trump won because the majority of the US is republican. Weird that Obama won twice when R's had much better options than Trump. Weird that many groups that voted for Obama started bleeding over to Trump.
My argument is that the claims you are making are easily disproven by even a simple google search. You have confused the sensationalism of the mainstream media for the behavior of liberals. I'm sure it's an honest mistake, but it's an obvious mistake.
They are not, and you keep saying this. I understand that I have put forward something is is almost impossible if not impossible to disprove. In no way will news articles or videos prove that people were or were not talking to other people.
No, your view is not important. You're just making up a narrative and doggedly sticking to it in the face of contrary evidence.
Why? Give a reason as to why I would do that. I literally stand nothing to gain here. Ask yourself why I would do this and how its not you doing this.
This is the second time you've tried to dodge my argument by saying I'm making it because I'm angry. That is a stupid and immature way to discuss things and I would hope you are better than that going forward. If you can't rebut my arguments then just say so, don't try to concoct a world where people are just saying you're wrong because they are mad.
Dude, you literally give me a video where Oliver said he was not going to do the thing that I said was happening. The reason he said that was because he knew it was happening. Not sure what else to say here.
As I said earlier you complained that liberals did not engage Trump on his policies. I've told you that he functionally had no policies but the few he did articulate were engaged with on the merits. If you disagree, please tell me what evidence you will accept that will make you change your mind.
I did not complain, I gave my opinion. When I said people did not engage Trump policies, I was not saying that people needed to talk to Trump directly. That would be silly. I am saying that people did not argue against Trumps positions. I spent a lot of time around west cost and college liberals. None of them knew anything about Trump's positions and actual comments. They just knew he was bad.
You are not them. You try to stay informed. I am telling you, that you do not realize how others were. Try talking to people around you that you find to be in the middle and see what they know about Trump. You will be very shocked to see they know very little about him.
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