So Who's at Fault?

[ericlp]

http://www.kptv.com/story/16011042/dash-cam-video-shows-tigard-police-car-slamming-into-home

I usually side with law enforcement. But, hmmm this one is kinda hard. I mean, I'm not sure what the reason was for going so fast.

But, you can tell the cop was in a residential zone with cross walks probably 25 MPH speed limit. Seems like the cop was going at least 50-60 MPH. Maybe even faster ...

My question is, with light and a siren ... how fast is over the speed limit? Even cops around my area just fly down the street no lights no siren ... Just ZOOM ZOOM... Ambulances don't take those kinds of risks, why should we let cops go over twice as fast as a posted speed limit? I mean, when do they start to pose a threat to others on the road and endanger the public?

Also, just dumb luck for the other driver, I would have most likely seen the lights behind me, but to me, from the dash cam you could clearly see the brake lights come on way before the cop got up on the car, why didn't the cop have the siren on the entire time? I suppose if the siren was going from the time he turned onto the street then I would have faulted the turning driver. But how fast is too fast for cop to be driving????

textTIGARD, OR (KPTV) - A Tigard police officer en route to an emergency collided with another driver, causing his patrol car to slam into a home in a video released by the police department Thursday.
The crash happened Sept. 3, but the video was not made available until this week.
A police spokesman says the officer's car collided with another vehicle at Walnut and Watkins streets. The officer then lost control as his car careened off the road and crashed into the home, where Francis Dominguez was watching TV just a few feet away.
"I hear a really big crash and I tried to open the door. But then I saw it was a police cruiser into the house. I couldn't believe it," Dominguez said
The Washington County Crash Reconstruction Team says the driver of the car that hit the cruiser caused the crash by not yielding to the officer.
That car's driver, Clyde Rizzutto, lives down the street. He was cited for failing to yield to an emergency vehicle.

No one was seriously injured.

 

[Craig234]

Primary fault with the driver who pulled out. Possible secondary fault with cop going too fast.

 

[michal1980]

Primary fault with the driver who pulled out. Possible secondary fault with cop going too fast.

amazingly I agree with Craig.

 

[xBiffx]

The cop is at fault. He had no regards for anyone's safety by going that fast in a residential area. Yes the driver is a moron but you don't expect to have to react to that kind of speed on a residential road.

Of course the police covered it up until now and cited the driver with failing to yield. The cop should have just admitted fault, took an administrative leave without pay for a while and moved on. At least no one was seriously injured.

 

[DrPizza]

Inattentive driver's fault. You don't turn left when there are flashing lights behind you.

 

[NesuD]

I disagree I think fault lies with the cop. If nothing else the timelines were to tight to reasonably expect the driver to even know the cop was there. 15 seconds elapsed between the time the cop turned on that street and the time he hit the car. the time elapsed between the officer activating his siren and the impact was even more telling literally 1 second. I would fight that any day of the week. That cop was driving far to fast to reasonably expect other motorists see him approaching and have time to react appropriately without an audible to give more warning. The cop for all practical purposes appeared out of nowhere then closed the distance so fast that there wasn't enough time to reasonably expect the driver to become aware of him in time to change his planned manuever especially considering the complete lack of any audible warning until literally the very last second. The distance from the corner to the scene of the impact was allegedly 1300 feet and that looks accurate to me. That would mean that cop averaged 60 mph to cover it in 15 seconds. allowing for acceleration he had to be doing well over 70 by the time he hit the other car. Yea that is all on the cop.

 

[dank69]

I can't really fault the cop here. What are you suggesting? A speed limit on how fast a cop can drive to an emergency? I don't think that is a good solution. If it truly was an emergency he was responding to, I would want the cop to drive as fast as his car will take him. If he was responding to a non emergency call, then yeah, he was driving too fast.

At the same time, I can't really fault the other driver either, even if I would like it if every driver was 100% attentive 100% of the time.

 

[Ausm]

It's the drivers fault who pulled out in front of the cop car and the idiot must not use his rear view mirror much.

 

[xBiffx]

I can't really fault the cop here. What are you suggesting? A speed limit on how fast a cop can drive to an emergency? I don't think that is a good solution. If it truly was an emergency he was responding to, I would want the cop to drive as fast as his car will take him. If he was responding to a non emergency call, then yeah, he was driving too fast.

At the same time, I can't really fault the other driver either, even if I would like it if every driver was 100% attentive 100% of the time.

Emergency or not doesn't matter. Absolutely there should be a limit, especially when in a residential area. If you are responding to a call, especially an emergency then you better make sure you get there. Driving erratically, and excessively over the posted speed limit is probably not going to increase your chances of getting there. First, do no harm should be on the mind of any responder. The first rule for a rescuer is to not become a victim yourself.

Like NesuD said, there wasn't enough time to react to anything. This was because of the speed of the cop.

 

[dank69]

Emergency or not doesn't matter. Absolutely there should be a limit, especially when in a residential area. If you are responding to a call, especially an emergency then you better make sure you get there. Driving erratically, and excessively over the posted speed limit is probably not going to increase your chances of getting there. First, do no harm should be on the mind of any responder. The first rule for a rescuer is to not become a victim yourself.

Like NesuD said, there wasn't enough time to react to anything. This was because of the speed of the cop.

I still don't think speed was the issue here. I think it was more that the cop assumed the other driver saw him which was a bad mistake. He should have assumed the driver did not see him and slowed down while passing.

 

[xj0hnx]

Looked to me that maybe when the driver heard the sirens, he decided to get off the road, and out of the cops way, unfortunately the cops was going the direction he decided to turn.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

I still don't think speed was the issue here. I think it was more that the cop assumed the other driver saw him which was a bad mistake. He should have assumed the driver did not see him and slowed down while passing.

Speed is absolutely always an issue in collisions. Lower the speed and you increase the reaction time and available choices to a driver who encounters an unexpected scenario on the road.

 

[classy]

That is the cops fault. At that rate of speed, more than likely the driver never heard or realized he was coming up behind him. Also the driver had already began to make the turn.

 

[classy]

It's the drivers fault who pulled out in front of the cop car and the idiot must not use his rear view mirror much.

I disagree. Also maybe he did see the cop and thought the cop was going to pull him over, so he is already making the turn and was planning on pulling over afterwards.

 

[Ninjahedge]

You can't pay attention to everything all the time. By the time he saw the lights, the cop was up his rear.

Also, driving that fast is one of the reasons they do not permit high speed chases anymore. They simply take plate numbers and back off. Why? Driving that fast increases the risk of personal injury to innocent bystanders.

This cop was flying high on adrenaline and probably did not realize he was going 70 until he hit him. Every road is rated for a maximum speed, the cops should know this. A 25mph should not have ANYONE going over 50 on it.

 

[Ausm]

I disagree. Also maybe he did see the cop and thought the cop was going to pull him over, so he is already making the turn and was planning on pulling over afterwards.

Why couldn't he pull over on the right side of the road if he thought the cop was after him? Also if he saw the cop coming up his ass at 100 MPH (should be able to judge speed if not should not be driving) why in the hell would he cross in front of him???

 

[ThatsABigOne]

It's the drivers fault who pulled out in front of the cop car and the idiot must not use his rear view mirror much.

First time ever, for gods sake, I agree with you.

 

[dank69]

Speed is absolutely always an issue in collisions. Lower the speed and you increase the reaction time and available choices to a driver who encounters an unexpected scenario on the road.

No doubt the cop should have lowered his speed as he approached the car. I just don't necessarily agree with any cap on how fast a cop can drive when responding to an emergency.

 

[xBiffx]

No doubt the cop should have lowered his speed as he approached the car. I just don't necessarily agree with any cap on how fast a cop can drive when responding to an emergency.

You will when they go to plaid. :awe:

 

[Ninjahedge]

That ludicrous!

 

[MomentsofSanity]

That ludicrous!

If I weren't at work there'd be a Spaceballs Ludicrous Speed gif all over this thred after that!

 

[Ausm]

First time ever, for gods sake, I agree with you.

Hehe Then there is hope!

 

[MotF Bane]

The other driver wasn't paying attention at all, it's his fault.

 

[Ninjahedge]

No, it isn't. You can't be expected to pay attention for something this extraordinary.

What if he was looking L and R for cars on the road he wanted to turn onto? Literally 2-3 seconds would be all it would take for him to miss the lights and not have enough time to react when he saw them.

The cop did not blow his siren in time and was flying WAY too fast.

What if a blind man was crossing the street in front of that car? Would he have had enough time to stop on hearing the siren? Would the cop have seen him in time to slow down?

I know, a bit of an extreme (but not so much around where I work, sadly enough). Point being, that cop should have been able to control his vehicle..... (BTW, i am only going on descriptions here... If this guy jumped in front of him as soon as he bleeped the siren, I would think that it was a mutual F-up... but endangering the lives of the residents is not excused by being on call to an "emergency".....


BTW, what was the call for?

 

[airdata]

Let's see. Cop going too fast, check. Cop driving on the wrong side of the road, check. Cop not breaking when the car in front of him breaked, check.