So Who's at Fault?

[dmcowen674]

http://www.kptv.com/story/16011042/dash-cam-video-shows-tigard-police-car-slamming-into-home
So Who's at Fault?

My question is, with light and a siren ... how fast is over the speed limit? Even cops around my area just fly down the street no lights no siren ... Just ZOOM ZOOM... Ambulances don't take those kinds of risks, why should we let cops go over twice as fast as a posted speed limit? I mean, when do they start to pose a threat to others on the road and endanger the public?

Also, just dumb luck for the other driver, I would have most likely seen the lights behind me, but to me, from the dash cam you could clearly see the brake lights come on way before the cop got up on the car, why didn't the cop have the siren on the entire time? I suppose if the siren was going from the time he turned onto the street then I would have faulted the turning driver. But how fast is too fast for cop to be driving????

textTIGARD, OR (KPTV) - A Tigard police officer en route to an emergency collided with another driver, causing his patrol car to slam into a home in a video released by the police department Thursday.
The crash happened Sept. 3, but the video was not made available until this week.
A police spokesman says the officer's car collided with another vehicle at Walnut and Watkins streets. The officer then lost control as his car careened off the road and crashed into the home, where Francis Dominguez was watching TV just a few feet away.
"I hear a really big crash and I tried to open the door. But then I saw it was a police cruiser into the house. I couldn't believe it," Dominguez said
The Washington County Crash Reconstruction Team says the driver of the car that hit the cruiser caused the crash by not yielding to the officer.
That car's driver, Clyde Rizzutto, lives down the street. He was cited for failing to yield to an emergency vehicle.

No one was seriously injured.

I don't know how anyone can fault the driver of the car.

The cop was going way too fast for conditions on that road.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

The simple fact is you are responsible for ensuring it is safe for you to enter/exit a roadway. Failing to do so is your fault. Doesn't matter if you are turning left, right or anywhere. Someone can be screaming up behind you on a country road, pass on your left as you are preparing to turn left and you will be charged, however stupid that law is and we would find every reason not to charge under it if we could. Fact is it was still the responsibility of the party turning to ensure the safety of that action. Bear in mind I'm referring to Canadian (Specifically Ontario) here. Not sure if it's identical down south.

You may think the cop was driving too fast, which he may have been. Here under the Police Services Act we were limited to how much we could exceed the speed limit but it also was qualified that we were responding lights and sirens. Again, not sure if that differs in the U.S.

 

[MotF Bane]

No, it isn't. You can't be expected to pay attention for something this extraordinary.

It's why you check your mirrors frequently, so that you can see something going on. The turning driver showed no indications that he had the slightest clue there was something behind him.

The cop did not blow his siren in time and was flying WAY too fast.

The other driver put on his brakes, you could see the light increase, cop probably thought he was braking to pull over as he should've. And define "too fast", that's a vague little term. Too fast for an oblivious driver? Apparently. Too fast for the necessary response time? We can't know that, I am willing to assume yes without having further information.

 

[MotF Bane]

Let's see. Cop going too fast, check. Cop driving on the wrong side of the road, check. Cop not breaking when the car in front of him breaked, check.

Too fast, see my above post. You don't know that.
Wrong side of the road to pass the vehicle that was legally obligated to give way, that's legal for him too.
Again, the other vehicle was obligated to give way to him, and to do so, you brake and pull over to the right.
Then again, you don't know the difference between break and brake, so I'm wasting my time here.

 

[Darwin333]

I can't really fault the cop here. What are you suggesting? A speed limit on how fast a cop can drive to an emergency? I don't think that is a good solution. If it truly was an emergency he was responding to, I would want the cop to drive as fast as his car will take him. If he was responding to a non emergency call, then yeah, he was driving too fast.

At the same time, I can't really fault the other driver either, even if I would like it if every driver was 100% attentive 100% of the time.

I don't give a damn how big of an emergency it is, I sure as hell don't want a cop doing 70 down my residential street (15mph speed limit). The risk for innocent civilian casualties and injuries is far to great.

And when you are doing over double the speed limit, especially in a residential area, shouldn't policy be to have your siren on the entire time to at least try and mitigate the risks?

 

[Darwin333]

Why couldn't he pull over on the right side of the road if he thought the cop was after him? Also if he saw the cop coming up his ass at 100 MPH (should be able to judge speed if not should not be driving) why in the hell would he cross in front of him???

Looked like the guy was making a turn. Not sure about you but when I am in the middle of making a turn I do not look in my rearview long enough to judge speed of cars coming up behind me because I am paying attention to where I am going in front of me. Especially when it is quite possible that he only noticed the cop within a moment or two of the impact. Looking in your rearview every 15 seconds is not unsafe by any measure whatsoever.

If he was on the highway or even continuing down the road you might have a valid point.

 

[Darwin333]

It's why you check your mirrors frequently, so that you can see something going on. The turning driver showed no indications that he had the slightest clue there was something behind him.

Its why cops have those loud noise maker thingys.

It is quite possible that the driver is a mirror using fool and had looked just 15 or 20 seconds prior.

 

[iGas]

IMHO, both at fault. 60~70% cop fault, and 30-40% driver fault.

The driver should have yield to an emergency vehicle when it is safe to do so. Traffic law also stated that one must not over take another vehicle unless it is safe to do so.

The cop was going faster than posted speed limit with lights/siren which is within the traffic law, but the cop didn't slow down and tried to over take a moving vehicle when it is not safe to do so, and to make matter worst the cop over take another vehicle at a junction in the road.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Looked into the Tigard, Oregon PD policy as it relates to emergency responding and there is no qualifier for maximum speed in excess of the posted limit when responding.

Also finally got to the video and that is a driver completely oblivious to what is going on around him. From what i saw in that video he (civilian driver) would be cited every time for those actions.