So who else here is pre-ordering Mass Effect 3?

[thespyder]

Is it weird that your analogy made me hungry? :awe:

yes. it is weird.

 

[irishScott]

Really? You can't grasp how somebody who has a month to cancel their pre-order MIGHT be able to take advantage of that bonus if you could activate BF3 now? I don't know if you're just clouded by all your EA hate or really that stupid, but the logic is there and makes perfect sense. You can't get your pre-order bonus until the game ships... that's always been the case and I don't know why people all of a sudden think it should be different. I guess just because it's EA you feel you need to bitch about something, even if it's free.

"Here's a free game for you, the only thing is you have to wait till next month to use it"
"What? But I want it NOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWW! *stamps feet*"

Bunch of self-entitled assholes in this place. Good lord it's getting old.

This. A Million times this. As for the "well they can just cancel!" argument, why? Why should a company expend extra effort to accomplish the same thing? Because you can't wait a couple of weeks? For a pre-order bonus?

Seriously, I was constantly at odds with my parents as a kid because they never allowed me to have a console and we never had cable; despite being more than financially well off enough to have both. Hell I had to beg for YEARS before they got me Starcraft. Now I'm glad I was never that spoiled, would probably have turned me into the brat that bitches about waiting for their pre-order bonus.

You know what? That Argus assault rifle pre-order bonus? That's only useful in ME3? They should give me that early too. I demand an installer executable for it, NOW or I'm canceling my pre-order luz to the MAX fuck EA like a 14 year old yeeha!

 

[Qbah]

So... is it a US only offer or not? I don't see anything about BF3 in my Origin store... Can someone show me a screenshot what I should look for? I may be blind...

 

[irishScott]

So... is it a US only offer or not? I don't see anything about BF3 in my Origin store... Can someone show me a screenshot what I should look for? I may be blind...

It was a one-day only offer TMK. Had to snag it yesterday.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Bunch of self-entitled assholes in this place. Good lord it's getting old.

What a whiner you are. People have a choice of either taking a deal or passing it up. Whether you get to play the game immediately or have to wait is part of the deal, and for many people, it makes the deal less attractive. So a lot of them decided it's not worth it.

That's not self-entitlement, it's called having an opinion. If you think it's a good deal and are willing to wait a month to get a game, then go ahead and buy it. Don't complain when people disagree with you. That's just childish.

 

[Gheris]

I am just mad that I missed the offer. I would have pre-ordered yesterday.

As far as EA and Origin goes....My feelings are this. I think EA is bad for gaming and has earned their reputaion rightfully. However I have played both ME1, and ME2 serveral times. I am a big fan of the series and still a fan of Bioware even though they let me down with Dragon Age 2. Taking those factors into consideration I can live with Origin as that's what necessary to finish what I consider an excellent game franchise that has been worth every penny I spent on it.

Just my opinion though.

 

[irishScott]

What a whiner you are. People have a choice of either taking a deal or passing it up. Whether you get to play the game immediately or have to wait is part of the deal, and for many people, it makes the deal less attractive. So a lot of them decided it's not worth it.

That's not self-entitlement, it's called having an opinion. If you think it's a good deal and are willing to wait a month to get a game, then go ahead and buy it. Don't complain when people disagree with you. That's just childish.

Yes, a self-entitled opinion. Battlefield 3 has been out for months. If people who haven't bought it yet in the months it's been out are whining about waiting 3 weeks to get it for free, which is effectively the biggest, most sudden price-drop you will ever see for a AAA game, they are hypocrites. It's just mindless EA haters finding another reason to mindlessly hate EA.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Yes, a self-entitled opinion. Battlefield 3 has been out for months. If people who haven't bought it yet in the months it's been out are whining about waiting 3 weeks to get it for free, which is effectively the biggest, most sudden price-drop you will ever see for a AAA game, they are hypocrites. It's just mindless EA haters finding another reason to mindlessly hate EA.

That's your opinion. It's just part of the value equation.

I'd counter that if you haven't bought BF3 yet, you're probably pretty on the fence about it, so any little thing like having to wait 3 weeks to play it is enough of an excuse to not go for it.

I'm not saying it's a bad deal, because it's not. But you're basically saying that anyone who disagrees with you has entitlement issues.

 

[thespyder]

That's your opinion. It's just part of the value equation.

I'd counter that if you haven't bought BF3 yet, you're probably pretty on the fence about it, so any little thing like having to wait 3 weeks to play it is enough of an excuse to not go for it.

I'm not saying it's a bad deal, because it's not. But you're basically saying that anyone who disagrees with you has entitlement issues.

Not really sure what the underlying issue is here but...

As I see it, EA is giving a free copy of BF3 with pre-order purchase of ME3? Only you have to wait till ME3 comes out to actually get it. Now, as I see it, this makes financial sense. They are getting money for ME3 in advance and so they are offering as a perk, BF3.

I can easily see people going "Ok, I will pre-order ME3, get my key to BF3 'For Free' and then cancel my ME3 pre-order. That way I get BF3 for free and don't have to buy anything." And the EA has to give out BF3 and gets nothing in compensation. I can see why EA doesn't want this to happen. Can you?

Now, as I see it, the caveat here is that you get BF3 "in 3 weeks" which is significantly after it hit the market. That seems to me (assuming I had any interest in the game) as a deal. Ok, I wait a month or more to play the game, but I am getting it for free. Trade. Wait = Free. Don't wait = pay full price.

In as much as I think EA is really a crummy company, I don't see this as "Proof" of same. It is a marketing tactic the same as any other company might use. Maybe none have in the past, but it is not any more underhanded than any other manuver I have seen any number of companies take. They are giving the game 'For Free'. Only the price is you have to wait.

So here is the way I see it. If you want BF3 for free, you have to wait. If you don't want it for free, buy it now and pay full price (or whatever price it is going for now). Complaining that you want it now is being childish.

However, villifying EA for this tactic is also childish. If you are going to nail them for something, pick something that is actually EVIL, like what they did to DA2.

 

[SithSolo1]

It was a one-day only offer TMK. Had to snag it yesterday.

I still see it:

 

[AstroManLuca]

Not really sure what the underlying issue is here but...

As I see it, EA is giving a free copy of BF3 with pre-order purchase of ME3? Only you have to wait till ME3 comes out to actually get it. Now, as I see it, this makes financial sense. They are getting money for ME3 in advance and so they are offering as a perk, BF3.

I can easily see people going "Ok, I will pre-order ME3, get my key to BF3 'For Free' and then cancel my ME3 pre-order. That way I get BF3 for free and don't have to buy anything." And the EA has to give out BF3 and gets nothing in compensation. I can see why EA doesn't want this to happen. Can you?

Now, as I see it, the caveat here is that you get BF3 "in 3 weeks" which is significantly after it hit the market. That seems to me (assuming I had any interest in the game) as a deal. Ok, I wait a month or more to play the game, but I am getting it for free. Trade. Wait = Free. Don't wait = pay full price.

In as much as I think EA is really a crummy company, I don't see this as "Proof" of same. It is a marketing tactic the same as any other company might use. Maybe none have in the past, but it is not any more underhanded than any other manuver I have seen any number of companies take. They are giving the game 'For Free'. Only the price is you have to wait.

So here is the way I see it. If you want BF3 for free, you have to wait. If you don't want it for free, buy it now and pay full price (or whatever price it is going for now). Complaining that you want it now is being childish.

However, villifying EA for this tactic is also childish. If you are going to nail them for something, pick something that is actually EVIL, like what they did to DA2.

Like I said, it's not a bad deal. And I understand the whole "canceling your preorder" thing too; not sure how they'd get around that. Either they'd have to bar you from canceling, or they'd have to allow a bunch of people to at the very least get three free weeks of BF3, neither of which is good for them. So I get it.

The original point was just that people got excited about getting two games for the price of one, then saw that they'd have to wait a while to play either game and were disappointed. Then all of a sudden it ballooned into people whining about entitlement. I'm just saying that it's not necessarily childish to be disappointed when something turns out to not be as good a deal as you originally thought.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Yes, a self-entitled opinion. Battlefield 3 has been out for months. If people who haven't bought it yet in the months it's been out are whining about waiting 3 weeks to get it for free, which is effectively the biggest, most sudden price-drop you will ever see for a AAA game, they are hypocrites. It's just mindless EA haters finding another reason to mindlessly hate EA.

You're ignoring the elephant in the room. When Steam offers a free game with a pre-order, you get the free game right away. I know, because I played my free copy of Darksiders while waiting for Space Marine to release.

If you're an upstart in the market aiming at the dominant player, you'd better be able to outdo him. This isn't even matching Steam.

So call it childish if you want. Origin makes me wait, Steam doesn't - that's another black mark against Origin.

 

[thespyder]

You're ignoring the elephant in the room. When Steam offers a free game with a pre-order, you get the free game right away. I know, because I played my free copy of Darksiders while waiting for Space Marine to release.

If you're an upstart in the market aiming at the dominant player, you'd better be able to outdo him. This isn't even matching Steam.

So call it childish if you want. Origin makes me wait, Steam doesn't - that's another black mark against Origin.

I used to work in the marketing department of a Credit Card company (so i know EVIL when I see it). They would routinely offer different flavors of the same promotion to different demographic groups. Sometimes you get it now. Sometimes you get it later. Sometimes you get part now and part later. That type of thing. Some of the control groups got amazing deals while others go medeocre or even crap offers. the intent was to see what the market would take and to see what generated the greatest lift financially.

Being upset that you didn't get in on the best 'Deal', or if your impression of the deal was not what you wanted it to be is, in my opinion, a bit childish. maybe it is understandable, but to publicly grouse about it... Well, lets just say that I would use it as a litmus test for maturity.

As for if Steam didn't make you wait, Did Steam offer the same deal? If so, take it. if not, it isn't really apples to apples.

Again, not saying EA isn't rotten to the core. just saying find a better example to villify them with. This isn't it.

 

[irishScott]

That's your opinion. It's just part of the value equation.

I'd counter that if you haven't bought BF3 yet, you're probably pretty on the fence about it, so any little thing like having to wait 3 weeks to play it is enough of an excuse to not go for it.

I'm not saying it's a bad deal, because it's not. But you're basically saying that anyone who disagrees with you has entitlement issues.

Huh? So, being one of those on-the-fence people, doing what you've willingly done relative the game (nothing) for months, for 3 more weeks, is somehow an excuse to not go for it? You're arguing that nothing is something. The wait simply feels bad to many people because they get all psyched up "ZOMG free Battlefield 3!" and then "in 3 weeks" kills their momentary excitement high. It's an irrational reaction to a marketing decision, nothing more. Rationally speaking, you are losing nothing aside from a momentary high, and gaining a top-rate game for free. Complaining about that is most illogical. *Spock

I never said anyone who disagrees with me has entitlement issues. Howerever, anyone who's complaining about getting something for nothing does have entitlement issues.

 

[irishScott]

You're ignoring the elephant in the room. When Steam offers a free game with a pre-order, you get the free game right away. I know, because I played my free copy of Darksiders while waiting for Space Marine to release.

If you're an upstart in the market aiming at the dominant player, you'd better be able to outdo him. This isn't even matching Steam.

So call it childish if you want. Origin makes me wait, Steam doesn't - that's another black mark against Origin.

And if Steam was offering either game in question you'd have a point. They're not. If you don't like EA/don't like the games then by all means don't buy, don't pre-order. But don't pretend it's about a 3 week waiting period for something you're getting for free. That is childish regardless of what I call it.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

I'm not pretending anything other then that it's another case where Steam is undeniably better then Origin. When Steam offers a free game with a purchase, it's available immediately - when origin offers a free game, it's not. That is a point, and an important one. The specifics of the games in question aren't all that relevant.


But you know....your point has one very, very large problem with it.

It's not in any way shape or form something for nothing.

It's something for a commitment to buy before any reviews come in, through their most profitable distribution channel, plus a 3 week interest free loan - cause they charge your credit card immediately.

So, in fact, it's something for something - and your point is invalid.

 

[irishScott]

I'm not pretending anything other then that it's another case where Steam is undeniably better then Origin. When Steam offers a free game with a purchase, it's available immediately - when origin offers a free game, it's not. That is a point, and an important one. The specifics of the games in question aren't all that relevant.


But you know....your point has one very, very large problem with it.

It's not in any way shape or form something for nothing.

It's something for a commitment to buy before any reviews come in, through their most profitable distribution channel, plus a 3 week interest free loan - cause they charge your credit card immediately.

So, in fact, it's something for something - and your point is invalid.

The specifics of the game? Steam does not and will not (thanks to EA and Valve) offer either game. Period. Making a comparison in this case is like complaining that DC United won't play the New York Giants (2 different sports), therefore DC United is worse than the New York Giants.

You want Mass Effect 3 and Battlefield 3? You have to go through Origin and EA. Valve and Steam are not in the equation, as with respect to these 2 games they are not in competition.

What you're trying to do is twist this into a Valve vs EA debate, which is off topic and not debatable in this context. EA wins by default because Valve is not playing (or forced not to play, depending on your point of view). I don't care if you think that Steam is better, I do too. The fact is getting Battlefield 3 for free is a great deal regardless, and saying it's a lackluster deal because of a 3 week wait, when you've already waited several months, is childish.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

See above: You aren't getting anything free.

 

[irishScott]

See above: You aren't getting anything free.

No, that's just your perception. Everything you mentioned, the commitment, the card charge, etc, would happen anyway with an Origin pre-order, with or without Battlefield 3 thrown in. Those resources are going towards Mass Effect 3, not BF3. If they weren't then pre-orders would have started out more expensive or there would have been a markup with the BF3 offer.

Now if you pre-order at least in part to get BF3, and wouldn't have pre-ordered otherwise, then yes you are, in your mind expending said resources at least in part to get BF3. But in reality those resources are going towards ME3.

Say I run a fruit stand, and I offer you two apples at a given price. You're on the fence until I throw in an orange at no extra charge. You agree. In your mind you payed for 2 apples and an orange, in my mind you payed for 2 apples, and the cost of the orange is made up in the reputation/sales boost I get for offering good deals.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

There's nothing in your mind about it. In the fruit stand example, I've paid money and a reputation boost for two apples and an orange. The mental subdivisions of the parties involved doesn't alter the transaction at all.


Tell me something - have you for one minute considered why people would be annoyed at having to wait for the release of ME3 to get this pre-order bonus? Besides "They're impatient crybabies"? Because the cause seems pretty obvious to me.

"Hey Mass Effect fans! We're going to give you another game with your preorder of Mass Effect 3! Aren't we amazingly generous? But wait! No, seriously, wait - you can't have this game until Mass Effect 3 releases - at which point you won't actually want to play it because you'll be playing Mass Effect 3! Isn't that wonderful, that we're going to give you another game at the exact moment we can be sure you won't want to play it?"


As marketing ploys go, it's as big a "Huh?" as you can get. The timing of it makes no sense.

 

[zerogear]

This has been known for a while, what took you so long?

Haha, Been kinda busy with real life, haven't had a chance to look. Heck, I didn't even know the release date is a month away until I took a look here.

Either way, canceled preorder on Amazon that I had since last May. I "might" pick it up when it's 5$. But 80$ + requiring origin is unacceptable.

 

[irishScott]

There's nothing in your mind about it. In the fruit stand example, I've paid money and a reputation boost for two apples and an orange. The mental subdivisions of the parties involved doesn't alter the transaction at all.


Tell me something - have you for one minute considered why people would be annoyed at having to wait for the release of ME3 to get this pre-order bonus? Besides "They're impatient crybabies"? Because the cause seems pretty obvious to me.

"Hey Mass Effect fans! We're going to give you another game with your preorder of Mass Effect 3! Aren't we amazingly generous? But wait! No, seriously, wait - you can't have this game until Mass Effect 3 releases - at which point you won't actually want to play it because you'll be playing Mass Effect 3! Isn't that wonderful, that we're going to give you another game at the exact moment we can be sure you won't want to play it?"



As marketing ploys go, it's as big a "Huh?" as you can get. The timing of it makes no sense.

Grasping at straws much?

Care to explain how you're "paying" a reputation boost in said analogy? There's no contract, spoken or otherwise saying you have to go out and advertise. In fact if you do it'll probably be on the context of a conversation on apple and orange sales, is which case recommending my stand would be of social benefit to you by making you look like a shrewd businessman. Everybody wins, even exchange of resources. You get social benefits, I get business benefits. You are not giving up net resources for that reputation/sales boost and are therefore not paying anything. Hell for all I know you may not say anything to anybody and that particular sale got me nothing.

As for the timing, you're telling me that getting two games at once is illogical? Really? Because I specifically remember myself and multitudes of people buying much more than 2 at once at... pretty much every steam sale ever. Somehow I've gotten around to playing all of mine, can't speak for everyone else but it would stand to reason that they figure out how to *gasp* play one after the other or *gasp* play a little of each at a time.

Your arguments are making less and less sense as this goes on.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Me grasping at straws? You're the one who suggested that how you *feel* about a transaction changes the nature of it.

Now, let me put this very simply. I wouldn't pay X dollars for 2 apples, but I would pay X dollars for 2 apples and 1 orange.

Your claim is based on the idea that I would pay X dollars for 2 apples, thus the orange was free - but I *wouldn't* pay X dollars for 2 apples. That's the whole reason you threw in the orange to begin with, remember?


An no, I'm not telling you that getting two games at once is illogical. I'm saying that getting two games at ones drives down the value of each of those games, and that driving down the value of your marketing ploy by delaying it like that is illogical.

Especially when you're trying to break into a market and you're desperately in need of good will from your customers, both due to the immaturity of your platform and your nasty reputation. Origin currently needs all the positive exposure it can get, and this is a massively wasted opportunity.

EA saying "Thanks for taking that chance with origin. Here's a game to play while you wait for release" would've been a huge advantage. Gets potential customers used to the origin platform, shows that EA is willing to match the kind of service we've come to expect from it's competitors, and it's the kind of actual generosity that might've helped shake their reputation of being out to provide as little actual value to consumers as they can get away with.

Instead - look at the result. Customers who could have been enjoying their free gift and taking note that Origin has something of actual value to offer are instead on forums having conversations like this one. The free game has gone from being a very nice bonus to something that invites negative comparisons to your competitors.

And what's the advantage to them for this wait period? Preventing people from preordering, playing their free game for three weeks, then canceling? You already have to jump through hoops to pre-order the game. How large could that group actually be? Large enough to merit wasting the opportunity to get some desperately needed goodwill to your infant platform?

 

[irishScott]

Me grasping at straws? You're the one who suggested that how you *feel* about a transaction changes the nature of it.

Now, let me put this very simply. I wouldn't pay X dollars for 2 apples, but I would pay X dollars for 2 apples and 1 orange.

Your claim is based on the idea that I would pay X dollars for 2 apples, thus the orange was free - but I *wouldn't* pay X dollars for 2 apples. That's the whole reason you threw in the orange to begin with, remember?


An no, I'm not telling you that getting two games at once is illogical. I'm saying that getting two games at ones drives down the value of each of those games, and that driving down the value of your marketing ploy by delaying it like that is illogical.

Especially when you're trying to break into a market and you're desperately in need of good will from your customers, both due to the immaturity of your platform and your nasty reputation. Origin currently needs all the positive exposure it can get, and this is a massively wasted opportunity.

EA saying "Thanks for taking that chance with origin. Here's a game to play while you wait for release" would've been a huge advantage. Gets potential customers used to the origin platform, shows that EA is willing to match the kind of service we've come to expect from it's competitors, and it's the kind of actual generosity that might've helped shake their reputation of being out to provide as little actual value to consumers as they can get away with.

Instead - look at the result. Customers who could have been enjoying their free gift and taking note that Origin has something of actual value to offer are instead on forums having conversations like this one. The free game has gone from being a very nice bonus to something that invites negative comparisons to your competitors.

And what's the advantage to them for this wait period? Preventing people from preordering, playing their free game for three weeks, then canceling? You already have to jump through hoops to pre-order the game. How large could that group actually be? Large enough to merit wasting the opportunity to get some desperately needed goodwill to your infant platform?

No, in fact I suggested quite the opposite. Simply that where you think the resources are going and where they're actually going are two different things.

To use your terminology, let X = the cost of two apples. You are willing to pay X for 2 apples and 1 orange. Therefore, when you pay X you are only paying the cost of two apples. The orange is entirely at-cost. This is basic resource allocation. If you have 3 children and only feed 2, you are not feeding 3 children.

And I'm not getting into the Origin vs Steam issue that you insist on bringing up. As I pointed out, it's irrelevant to the fact that getting Battlefield 3, for free, is a good deal and waiting 3 weeks when you've waited several months shouldn't be a huge issue to any rational adult.

Now you are correct that Origin/EA made a marketing error, because the naturally perceived deal is not the same as the actual deal. So people are irrationally disappointed that they're getting like 2% less of a deal, because the marketing psyched them up for an instant freebie and reality let them down. That doesn't change the fact that rationally:

1. You pay for one game, Mass Effect 3, weeks ahead of time.
2. You get another game, Battlefield 3, at no extra cost.
2a. The wait is not a cost because had the pre-order deal never existed, you still would have, in all likelihood, waited much longer than 3 weeks without complaint. It it a perceived cost because bad marketing raised your expectations and then sunk them. Your feelings are hurt and you don't like that. Rationally, the deal is still pretty damn good even if it lacks immediate gratification.

 

[orbster556]

As for the game itself, everyone has their tastes, but I play ME3 for the story and gameplay. Everything else is secondary. Bioware has done an excellent job in creating an epic, engaging plot for most of the world. The minority that doesn't get it, and want a game that's the equivalent of a barbie doll with tedious grind quests, apparently congregates here.

I was disappointed by ME2's departure from traditional RPG gameplay and, much to my chagrin, ME3 seems to further continue in this direction with the demo playing more like a Gears clone. Eliminating party buffs, giving every class access to assault rifles and capping the number of abilities overall -- at least in comparison to ME1 -- directly affects gameplay and eliminates strategy from the game. Although I like having an actual inventory and enjoy customizing the appearance of my characters, if ME2/3 only lacked those options, I wouldn't complain too vigorously. When the game mechanics are altered, however, such that the game becomes more run-and-gun rather than a traditional tactical-RPG, I think my criticism is buttressed by more valid and substantial claims.

Although I would be disappointed that BioWare had chosen to simplify game mechanics, it wouldn't sting as much if the new direction they were pushing their RPGs -- the moral decision model -- was implemented in a meaningful, mature manner. Instead, gamers are left with simplistic, Manichean decisions that fail to reflect the confused and capricious nature of the world. I can't get too excited with the quality of the story when so many of the 'decisions' you are forced to make lack any semblance of nuance.

Edit: I should also add that I dislike that the PC is voiced. I understand that it adds a 'cinematic' flair to the game, but I think it dusrupts the role-playing aspect of the game and the franchise is, at least nominally, a RPG. Additionally, and perhaps more importantly, voiced-PC raise two additional problems: first, if an individual doesn't like the voice of the PC, they're stuck listening to hours of dialogue*; second, given the finite nature of developer resources, having lines recorded reduces the number of overall responses which further limits the player's ability to craft their own charcter. Indeed, this might contribute to the relative simplcity of the moral decision making model to which I alluded earlier.

* From a personal standpoint, although this is not an issue for me in the ME franchise as I like the voice of Shepard, I did experience this phenomenon playing SWTOR, specifically the male Consular. After hearing him talk, I realized that I wouldn't be able to stand the VA's voice for any extended period of time.